Western question [basic]

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Exploding Chestnuts

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I am going to trek in Ireland, they ride western style. I don't want to start off on the wrong foot by asking this : with English riding we ask for contact so the horse is collected, so why when I see them hacking are they totally free of contact, also the photos show them holding their hands wide apart.
 
Western riding is on a loose rein, with the horses low and relaxed, neck reining is used to turn the horse and the bits are often ( to our eyes) quite severe curbs.
I'm sure they explain what to do.
 
oh, OK well not quite so basic, I have ridden a western trained horse [once], and always taught my own horses to neck rein though not in the exaggerated way they use.
What I mean is, we use the english style to develop topline, and a well schooled riding horse will look better and ride better, yet the western horse will never be collected as we understand it, they tend to carry their heads low and really the question is why ride western, it is just for comfort over longer distances. Or [going to upset people now], is it because it is easier to learn, there are no problems with the rising trot for example.


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Western riding comes from working cattle. You neck reign so that your other hand is free to do something. There is a BIG difference within western riding as to styles. Western pleasure the horse almost shuffles along with its nose on the floor...Reigning the horse is collected by the weight of the reign on the shanked bit. The horse can feel the difference depending on how high your hand is. A well schooled horse will be in self collection almost all the time, with most of the weight on the back end to allow the front to lift. This allows them to change direction rapidly after a cow.
However there will never be the same very high level of collection like what you see in the spanish riding school for example.

the levels of skill of a western rider vary as much as they do with english riding.. makes sense really.
You should never see someone make contact with the horses mouth when using a shanked bit. that is not what they are for, the horse isnt well trained enough and the rider isnt skilled enough. I could talk about this all day lol :D
 
I think it was originally because of comfort and long hours of riding. Plus the western saddles being rather long with lots of places to hang your bed roll etc, are hardly conducive to collection. I doubt the Cowboys cared about outline and it probably is much easier to learn to ride to a reasonable level.
 
You can collect a horse from the seat, that is the ultimate level of training. A young horse will be quite heavy on the forehand and work with the support of a contact on a snaffle, the next level is working with a double bridle where the snaffle controls speed and direction and the curb controls the collection, the next level is working on a curb (which is used on a loose rein) and control speed and direction from the seat. Western riding evolved from the classical riding brought by the Spanish conquistadors. English riding evolved from the more modern demands of racing and jumping at high speed. A western bridle horse needs years of careful and talented training and is very light to ride. The low headset is breed related mostly.
ETA: watch some reining videos or even western dressage, those horses collect very well and are on the bit.
 
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The origin of modern Western riding is in the old Vaquero tradition... Where men on horses herded cattle, including fighting bulls that needed careful, agile handling. And they definitely do collection. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jycduRaRekI This is modern competitive Doma Vaquera. Shares a lot of traits with Classical Dressage. Ideally, you should be able to collect a horse without much rein contact... Western riders emphasise the use of the seat and having a big curb bit means you only need minimal contact to get the message across. Horses do need to collect and achieve self-carriage in many Western disciplines... Just because they carry their head low, does not mean the horse isn't collected.

Having said that, a Western saddle is certainly far more comfortable for long hours in the saddle and definitely easier to stay in!
 
Barnacle said:
The origin of modern Western riding is in the old Vaquero tradition... Where men on horses herded cattle, including fighting bulls that needed careful, agile handling. And they definitely do collection. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jycduRaRekI This is modern competitive Doma Vaquera. Shares a lot of traits with Classical Dressage. Ideally, you should be able to collect a horse without much rein contact... Western riders emphasise the use of the seat and having a big curb bit means you only need minimal contact to get the message across. Horses do need to collect and achieve self-carriage in many Western disciplines... Just because they carry their head low, does not mean the horse isn't collected.

Having said that, a Western saddle is certainly far more comfortable for long hours in the saddle and definitely easier to stay in!
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Totally agree with this. I have a wonderful picture in my feed room of a western rider doing a beautiful canter, horse is totally in a perfect "outline" but the only contact is the weight of the rein. The neck is up, the poll is the highest point, the face is vertical and hindquarters are rounded and the hindleg underneath, the horse has an expression of concentration as if waiting for the next request. It is a lovely picture and something we all aspire to.

I went western riding in Montana, and we posted to the trot, as we were trotting to cover distance, not jogging. The owner had to remind English riders not to have a constant contact, as that means stop.

With western riding the horse and the saddle do the work, the rider is free to concentrate on herding his cattle or riding for a long distance comfortably.
 
I took western riding up a couple of years and bought my first western pony last year. I have found a great instructor who has been fantastic with both of us and I will admit it is a lot harder than I first thought. When working my boy I am looking for his poll to be in line with his withers, relaxed through his neck with his head on the vertical. His paces should be rhythmical and just as in English I should be able to collect and extend as necessary. His back should be rounded which allows his paces to become more comfortable to sit to for long periods of time whilst allowing him to lower his neck correctly and engaging his back end. When I school I use two hands and unlike English they can be anywhere from my knee to my hip to my ear as needed! The aim is to remove the bit as a point of balance for the horse and to develop self carriage. In terms of a riding holiday it could very much be that western is more comfortable for longer periods in the saddle but I can promise if you get schooling it is not as easy as it looks :). Hope you enjoy your holiday!
 
CharliePonyPops said:
I took western riding up a couple of years and bought my first western pony last year. I have found a great instructor who has been fantastic with both of us and I will admit it is a lot harder than I first thought. When working my boy I am looking for his poll to be in line with his withers, relaxed through his neck with his head on the vertical. His paces should be rhythmical and just as in English I should be able to collect and extend as necessary. His back should be rounded which allows his paces to become more comfortable to sit to for long periods of time whilst allowing him to lower his neck correctly and engaging his back end. When I school I use two hands and unlike English they can be anywhere from my knee to my hip to my ear as needed! The aim is to remove the bit as a point of balance for the horse and to develop self carriage. In terms of a riding holiday it could very much be that western is more comfortable for longer periods in the saddle but I can promise if you get schooling it is not as easy as it looks :). Hope you enjoy your holiday!
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Thanks, will think about that, I am ordering a western hat, even that is not as easy as you might think as most either look ridiculous [I am travelling on Ryanair so will have to wear it], or are not good quality, really for indoor use, line dancing and so on.
I have selected this one
http://www.tomdickandharry.co.uk/all-hats-and-caps/Vail-Brown-S.html
I can add a few extra feathers or something to make it a bit more feminine.
The same company do gents panamas [its a discount day today] again I am a bit stuck as they seem to be for gents, I think these are great for racing as they should not easily fly off in a gale.
http://www.tomdickandharry.co.uk/panama-summer-hats/mens-natural-linen-wide-brim-hat.html
fashion advice appreciated, I tend to end up with the "no style" style, and would like to be "stylish" just on a few occasions. This is easy when the weather is predictable, but its usually hailstones in June when the forecast is light showers and sunshine. My summer hat is so light and so much brim it ends up taking off frisby style, not a good look having to run after it..........
 
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