Western riding 'kinder' than English?

VioletStripe

VioletStripe

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I came across someone who recently believed this was the case, as they believed Western followed more naturally from things a horse normally would do...

Now, I have never ever tried Western, and I don't even really know much about it. I'm just interested to hear other people's thoughts on this?

I've personally never thought of my style of riding as 'unkind', and I endeavour to never kick, pull, be harsh etc, and work my horse 'correctly' to avoid mal-formation of the muscles etc, with plenty of stretching as well... But I suppose everyone has different views, and 'being kind' entirely depends on how the rider goes about what they're doing!

So, thoughts? And, if someone could explain their opinion to me?
Really not trying to open a can of worms, but I really know next to nothing about Western and I'd love to know why someone might think it's better for the horse!
 
It's just what you said - their opinion :) nothing more and nothing less than an opinion. Although certain individuals seem to think that their opinions work more like undeniable truths, and that you're crazy if your opinion is different, but there you have it. People.
 
It would be interesting to know the person's reasons for that opinion. Not saying I disagree, mind :-) Riding in England is......variable.
 
case895 said:
Many western riders don't think they need to wear helmets as either they never fall off, or their skulls are thicker.
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I don't wear a hat. I understand the risks involved with riding and find them acceptable. If you would like to wear a riding helmet I don't object.

P.S. I don't ride Western.
 
Well I guess if you are riding in true western style for a living and for hours a day, there has to be a lot of freedom for the horse and rider, so the horse finds a comfortable, loose, natural way of going and the rider sits in a comfortable position with minimum 'effort' with regards to getting the horse to do what you want it to do.

So all's tickety boo so far with western riding, but then you look at some of the twists and turns that the horses do at speed and you can't help but think that it must take its toll. But then I guess a working horse is a working horse and it has to do what is needed to round up cattle regardless of the long term strain on its body.

Then again I look at what some of 'our' horses are expected to do and it makes me wince. I spotted a photo on FB this weekend of a dainty woman riding a huge hunter over an enormous hedge with a big drop the other side. The horse's head was yanked in with heaven knows what bit in its mouth and the woman was leaning back, pulling on the reins which brought the horse's head into his chest, with her spurred feet at '10 to 2' dug into the horses sides... and I wondered why she was so proud of that photo when it looked so unnatural and painful for the horse to be jumping so high with someone's full weight on his back and in such an unnatural position.

Swings and roundabouts I guess with both styles of riding.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
I think it's subjective, some of those western lever action bits don't look soft.
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I'm not a Western rider, but I do ride one handed with a curb bit (I do demonstrations of late 17th century horsemanship at an historical property). The whole point of a curb is that you don't ever pull, yank, saw, or keep relentless pressure (often termed "contact") on the reins. I used to do proper grown up dressage, and have seen far too many horses in "kind" snaffle bits with their mouths properly abused. It ain't the tools, it's the workmen...
 
A senior Western trainer I know reckons that most of her clients who have transferred to Western from English did so because they are useless at English riding, and are clutching at straws hoping that Western may be the way forward for them.

She happily takes the money off these well intentioned but talentless riders.

I have spectated at several Western clinics. They are a good money spinner, that's for sure.
 
Ha ha, that's EXACTLY the impression I was left with after being at an Irish Western show recently: a lot of rather large ladies bouncing all over some innocent little Quarter Horses. And unfortunately the staws they were clutching at were in the horse's mouths :-(
 
Cortez said:
Ha ha, that's EXACTLY the impression I was left with after being at an Irish Western show recently: a lot of rather large ladies bouncing all over some innocent little Quarter Horses. And unfortunately the staws they were clutching at were in the horse's mouths :-(
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This has been my thoughts too.

Western is popular here and there are quite a few "cowboy type" men making a killing doing clinics with like you say large ladies on little quarter horses, many of whom never venture outside of the arena.

It totally depends on the rider as to whether it is kinder than English riding. I think that riding horses in full work at two years old and expecting them to be doing strenuous manouvers ie sliding stops, spins ect by the time they are four is not kind at all. I wonder how long these horses actually have a working life for. I was at an event a couple of years back. and there was a big heavy man on a lovely little quarter horse stallion doing all of the above and the horse was only 3 years old. The western people all thought it was great, personally I was sad for the horse. This was one of the top trainers in the country who I believe also does clinics overseas.

Many of the westerners will knock dressage but this is what is winning in America, these horses look totally miserable, shut down and crippled. If my horse cantered across the paddock like that I would be seriously
concerned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnCD-yN4aTQ forward it to 5 mins 20 see the loping.

This is a video of a warm up at a big show, no different to the videos of some European dressage warm ups which have caused outrage on social media

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kyZlov_YEw

So really it DOES depend on who is riding the horse as to whether it is kinder or not.

So yes it can be kinder or less kind depending on the rider.
 
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I'm from and living in Texas currently, plenty of Western riders! I started riding Western before switching to English. I would say it absolutely depends on the rider. There are some rough-handed English riders who will tear up a horses mouth with a simple snaffle. But there are Western riders who can care less about what harsh bit with a shank they put in their horse's mouth. Lots of turning and burning and yanking with Barrel Racers. Lots of Reiners who break in 2 year olds and rush some pretty intensive movements.

Unfortunately I've had better experiences in general with English riders, but as I said it totally depends on the rider! I know some BEAUTIFUL Western riders who are an inspiration!
 
I'd rather see horses slopping along with a little neck reining than hacked out in a constant 'contact' as frankly what English riding does to mouths is a little obscene. But possibly not quite as bad as what happens to TWHs.

Some of the Western disciplines are a bit more natural than, say, dressage or huge XC obstacles but the most natural thing in the world for a horse is to stand around grazing not being ridden at all so at the higher levels any horse sport is going to be a bit unnatural!

There are certainly ways you could make the argument that Western is kinder, but clearly that isn't universal.
 
What about the competition where the horses slope around looking half head? I can't remember what it is called, they have their heads on the ground.
I think, has others have said, it depends on the individuals but yes to seeing a lot of fat women on quarterhorses with massive saddles, poor horses.
 
'Peanut rollers' - yes, deanimated horses in the western show ring ,IMO, are a travesty. The contraptions to get and keep their heads so low make drawreins look kind!
I know the theory to western riding is that a loose rein is used and therefore it seems a kinder option, but surely the horse knows what a curb bit will do if they do not comply.
I seriously hate the spinning and sliding stops. I just cant watch the competitive shows like WEG that promote that style. The working life of a quarter horse in the USA is very short - backed at 2,full work at three, small boxy hooves, 'down hill'conformation , then riders /saddles adding much weight onto the shoulders. It all equals early navicular.
I too have seen [usually novicy] riders change to western in the belief they will suddenly ride better as they feel more 'secure' in the big saddles - not sure it works like that!
 
How do you define "English"? What is English riding to you? Whose methods do you hold true to it?

What defines "Western"? Pleasure, ranchwork?

Both brushes have broad strokes and I wouldn't like to say one way or the other. I've seen the good and bad in both and frankly it's not the kit, the horses or the methods, it's purely down to the rider.
 
I think with a well balanced expert rider, then western is much kinder than English. Especially the way we use double bridles on 'a contact'. The bruising the mouth and tongue has to go through to build up the tolerance of that is just unthinkable, and then we have the overly tight nosebands... So long as a western rider never balances themselves by hauling on the reins then yes, I'd say it is kinder. However, and it's a big 'however', most western riders will at some point really hurt their mounts whilst they are learning and by accident. Those curb bits exert a huge amount of pressure with only the slightest pull on the reins. I can't watch most western films seeing those poor horses mouths wide open with the riders hauling on them. Just awful.
 
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Wagtail said:
I think with a well balanced expert rider, then western is much kinder than English. Especially the way we use double bridles on 'a contact'. The bruising the mouth and tongue has to go through to build up the tolerance of that is just unthinkable, and then we have the overly tight nosebands... So long as a western rider never balances themselves by hauling on the reins then yes, I'd say it is kinder. However, and it's a big 'however', most western riders will at some point really hurt their mounts whilst they are learning and by accident. Those curb bits exert a huge amount of pressure with only the slightest pull on the reins. I can't watch most western films seeing those poor horses mouths wide open with the riders hauling on them. Just awful.
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Please remember that the riding you see in films is almost always bad because the people riding are either actors or stuntmen, neither of whom are necessarily riders at all. And unfortunately actors and stunt men tend to copy the riding they have seen in films, so it is a (literally) vicious circle. The general public also get their idea of what riding looks like and how horses behave from movies too, unfortunately. Western horses are started with a combination of a 2-handed snaffle and/or a bosal (bitless) and should only progress to a full shanked curb after they have learned the basics of steering and stopping. I have known some truly excellent western trainers when I lived in the US, but there are bad riders everywhere and Western riding is no exception.
 
If all you are doing is bumbling about the ranch, neck reining with a grazing bit, then you aren't going to be doing much harm to your horse. Once competitions come into play, the "Western" world has some of the most godawful bits on the planet. Lots of square stock, slow and fast twists, correction ports all of which are purported to "sharpen up" a horse (i.e. cause pain).

I saw a thin gauge twisted wire weighted (2lb) snaffle being advertised as a "good bit to start colts in" the other day... the mind boggled.
 
it works both ways.

Having seen how the barrel racers work, with some of them 'starfishing' and kicking/whipping so harshly whilst using big, long shanked bits it doesn't look very kind. Similarly, the 'western pleasure' horses that shuffle round with nose to the floor, are often ridden btv/ldr/rolkur at home and have their heads strapped down and often are lame as lame horses shuffle more.

You get the same in English riding, the same way you get people who ride 'English' and hack around on a loose rein with a simple snaffle bit, and Western people who do the same.

There is good and bad in both, I would say some of the uneducated western riders who ride with the shanked bits and harsh hands are not kind, but English riders who do the same aren't either.
 
Tiddlypom said:
A senior Western trainer I know reckons that most of her clients who have transferred to Western from English did so because they are useless at English riding, and are clutching at straws hoping that Western may be the way forward for them.

She happily takes the money off these well intentioned but talentless riders.

I have spectated at several Western clinics. They are a good money spinner, that's for sure.
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So like a step up from them giving up completely and just doing pirelli then ;)

I don't think we can judge 'western riding' on the basis of western pleasure, we all know that is the pits because as usual the taking things to the extreme is always 'better' in the US :p
 
I use a John Lyons trainer in France. He is one of the kindest horse people I have ever met. He wins all the local Western Riding competitions and rides English on my horses.

He is a superb rider. Western or English he never moves in the saddle. Three effortless paces, leg yield rein back. When I watch him ride I always ask "How does he do that?"

He always works a horse in-hand with a schooling whip before riding. Interestingly there was a thread on the Sylvia Loch forum about 'working in-hand', something they also do at the Cadre Noir ...but he is a Western rider doing what they do in classical dressage. It is all about horsemanship.
 
To be honest, it's more the rider than the equipment, imo.

However, from what I've seen of the Western style it seems like lazy riding using chunky, barbaric bits and overlarge saddles as a substitute for actual riding skills.

I don't like the Western style and I'm glad it never really became popular in the UK.
 
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