Wet boggy mud

[MummyEms]

I have a fantastic 8 Yr old tb mare. She's called Shoreline (2013 French bred) she hacks everywhere with m e with my 2 children on their fab little ponies. She happily stays in behind for them even in exciting canter work. She's a joy to have and do and I love every part of her.
However she absolutely cannot bare going through deep wet mud. Some of our new hacks (we've recently moved) have beautiful long countryside rides, it's so lovely and there are streams to cross etc. The ponies and children are really good but she is point blank refusing to go through the wet mud areas. It was so bad the other day she was shaking and I ended up having to get off and lead.... even then she was still very reluctant and it took more time. It's so unlike her just wondered if anyone had any thoughts or similar experiences?
Of course I'll take her there in hand again and again but it us such an extreme fear.
She's fine with puddles and water and she's happy to jump little ditches. It's literally just the wet boggy mud.

 

[cauda equina]

One of mine who hated any sort of deep going (mud, deep sand in an arena) turned out to have coffin joint arthritis
He wasn't unlevel and it only came to light after a loss of performance workup

 

[MummyEms]

One of mine who hated any sort of deep going (mud, deep sand in an arena) turned out to have coffin joint arthritis
He wasn't unlevel and it only came to light after a loss of performance workup

Gosh that's worrying ?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Little off topic but I had a tbx years ago that wouldn't jump in a particular indoor school. Absolutely no problems anywhere else. We eventually decided it was the feel of the fibre sand under her feet that made her feel unstable. It sort of fell away as they trod on it. Coyld be the same sort of feeling?

 

[MummyEms]

Yes that's what my instinct tells me. That she just doesn't trust the sinking deep feeling!!!

 

[cauda equina]

Gosh that's worrying ?

Sorry

 

[PurBee]

There is a force of suction when they go into deep mud, so it could be that she’s not feeling comfortable about. I have muddy deep black bog areas on parts of my land and the horses are kept off deepest bog, but due to high rainful we have small crossing areas that can become a foot deep mud, with limestone subsoil. They are used to traversing through it , and their gait is like a hackney trotter going through it, due to the mud sucking around their relatively thin lower limbs. They really do have to pull hard with their feet upwards to overcome the suction. Its a bit like if we go into deep mud in wellies and how the welly remains stuck when we lift our foot -it takes a lot of foot/ankle strength for us to overcome the weight of mud and the suction forces.

What depth of mud are you talking about? Anything just hoof deep i wouldnt expect a horse to find problematic, but certainly depths of 10inches + will be more difficult forces on the hoof/hocks etc and my horses will happily wade through mud at a slow pace. So im wondering if she’s got some slight lower limb problems, and they’re only felt for her due to the mud suction forces, that pull on the joints when stepping out of mud.

If she’s very sound with all other activities, it may be a mild joint issue only noticed in footing that really puts pressure on the joints. So worth noting and investigating, as any joint issue caught early can be prevented from getting worse…like a blessing in disguise.
With water, there’s no resistance like mud so her likeness for water suggests moreso its not just a ‘fear’ of mud, the mud itself, if deep, is causing some kind of potential pain problem.
I would investigate scans of ligaments/bones. Just for peace of mind.
My horses are mud-educated and its taught me a lot about their tolerance for types of mud and depths…how they manage it. Your horse is young and if not experienced much with mud could be just mentally fearful, but if mud has been experienced and now there’s resistance to going through it, i’d consider a pain angle.

Try to consider their last experience of mud. Some bases to mud, like clay, are slippy, so horses wont get good footing at the depth of mud and feel very imbalanced. If she’s experienced that type of mud before she could be scared, with a rider on her back, of repeating a previous experience of slipping and feeling destabilised.
Whereas my mud has a base of very dense limestone, hard and dry, so they get good stabilisation to push off out of the depth of muddy topsoil.

She does sound like a really lovely horse. Wonderful you and your kids go on treks together, sounds like great fun! ?

 

[MummyEms]

There is a force of suction when they go into deep mud, so it could be that she’s not feeling comfortable about. I have muddy deep black bog areas on parts of my land and the horses are kept off deepest bog, but due to high rainful we have small crossing areas that can become a foot deep mud, with limestone subsoil. They are used to traversing through it , and their gait is like a hackney trotter going through it, due to the mud sucking around their relatively thin lower limbs. They really do have to pull hard with their feet upwards to overcome the suction. Its a bit like if we go into deep mud in wellies and how the welly remains stuck when we lift our foot -it takes a lot of foot/ankle strength for us to overcome the weight of mud and the suction forces.

What depth of mud are you talking about? Anything just hoof deep i wouldnt expect a horse to find problematic, but certainly depths of 10inches + will be more difficult forces on the hoof/hocks etc and my horses will happily wade through mud at a slow pace. So im wondering if she’s got some slight lower limb problems, and they’re only felt for her due to the mud suction forces, that pull on the joints when stepping out of mud.

If she’s very sound with all other activities, it may be a mild joint issue only noticed in footing that really puts pressure on the joints. So worth noting and investigating, as any joint issue caught early can be prevented from getting worse…like a blessing in disguise.
With water, there’s no resistance like mud so her likeness for water suggests moreso its not just a ‘fear’ of mud, the mud itself, if deep, is causing some kind of potential pain problem.
I would investigate scans of ligaments/bones. Just for peace of mind.
My horses are mud-educated and its taught me a lot about their tolerance for types of mud and depths…how they manage it. Your horse is young and if not experienced much with mud could be just mentally fearful, but if mud has been experienced and now there’s resistance to going through it, i’d consider a pain angle.

Try to consider their last experience of mud. Some bases to mud, like clay, are slippy, so horses wont get good footing at the depth of mud and feel very imbalanced. If she’s experienced that type of mud before she could be scared, with a rider on her back, of repeating a previous experience of slipping and feeling destabilised.
Whereas my mud has a base of very dense limestone, hard and dry, so they get good stabilisation to push off out of the depth of muddy topsoil.

She does sound like a really lovely horse. Wonderful you and your kids go on treks together, sounds like great fun! ?

Thank you ever so much for such a lovely thoughtful reply.
She is insured so I could go down an investigative route. However I did have her fully worked up by our vets (rossdales Newmarket) in the winter when I was convinced there may have been something bothering her.
She did check out sound and fine then they thought but that was just with trot ups / flexion tests and feeling everywhere etc. Back then they suggested and recommended their back person, as she was still rather 'racing lean' then who I've since used regularly and we together have built up her topline much stronger.

I do remember one particular hack where we accidentally walked on some extremely sinking deep ground and I ended up turning her around and we went back the way we came as it didn't feel right to either of us. Not ideal I know. I'm now wondering if I'm her mind that was me telling her deep ground or deep mud isn't safe to cross....???

 

[MummyEms]

IN* her mind sorry

 

[Carrottom]

I wonder if her name suggests she was bred/brought up on the coast, maybe ridden on soft sand. My old horse had a scarey experience going through the edge of a bog on a welsh mountain and was very wary of soft ground after.

 

[PurBee]

Thank you ever so much for such a lovely thoughtful reply.
She is insured so I could go down an investigative route. However I did have her fully worked up by our vets (rossdales Newmarket) in the winter when I was convinced there may have been something bothering her.
She did check out sound and fine then they thought but that was just with trot ups / flexion tests and feeling everywhere etc. Back then they suggested and recommended their back person, as she was still rather 'racing lean' then who I've since used regularly and we together have built up her topline much stronger.

I do remember one particular hack where we accidentally walked on some extremely sinking deep ground and I ended up turning her around and we went back the way we came as it didn't feel right to either of us. Not ideal I know. I'm now wondering if I'm her mind that was me telling her deep ground or deep mud isn't safe to cross....???

The hacking incident sounds ominous. They remember stuff so well dont they!

My mare had a similar experience - went into deeper mud than she liked, i didnt know it was deep as she traversed it while i wasnt there, hoofprints told me they passed through it so i thought it was ok.She was resistant to go through again when i tried ushering them through an area - and when she went through, it was deeper than i realised and not ideal at all, but she never went that way again voluntarily, and i cordoned the area off.

So likely your mare has remembered your dislike for the deep mud and turning back on that hack, so now sees all mud as ‘warning, do not go in”.

When you lead her through the mud on your recent hack that will have taught her not all mud is to be avoided. So it’ll be interesting if you take her to that muddy area again and see if she goes through no issue, with you on board, now she’s had the experience that she survived going through it!

Considering the recent workup you mention and she’s fit in every other way, it does seem more likely its a momentary learnt behaviour reaction than a pain issue.
You’ll only know by trying her with more mud exposure and seeing if desensitisation soon sorts her reluctance, ot normally does if its just irrational fear reaction. If it continues being an issue, then consider it could be potential pain/joints/foot issue brewing and needs investigating.

You’ll probably get blazing summer weather and all mud will dry up now! ? Us horse folk rarely embrace mud but just when you need mud…?

 

[MummyEms]

The hacking incident sounds ominous. They remember stuff so well dont they!

My mare had a similar experience - went into deeper mud than she liked, i didnt know it was deep as she traversed it while i wasnt there, hoofprints told me they passed through it so i thought it was ok.She was resistant to go through again when i tried ushering them through an area - and when she went through, it was deeper than i realised and not ideal at all, but she never went that way again voluntarily, and i cordoned the area off.

So likely your mare has remembered your dislike for the deep mud and turning back on that hack, so now sees all mud as ‘warning, do not go in”.

When you lead her through the mud on your recent hack that will have taught her not all mud is to be avoided. So it’ll be interesting if you take her to that muddy area again and see if she goes through no issue, with you on board, now she’s had the experience that she survived going through it!

Considering the recent workup you mention and she’s fit in every other way, it does seem more likely its a momentary learnt behaviour reaction than a pain issue.
You’ll only know by trying her with more mud exposure and seeing if desensitisation soon sorts her reluctance, ot normally does if its just irrational fear reaction. If it continues being an issue, then consider it could be potential pain/joints/foot issue brewing and needs investigating.

You’ll probably get blazing summer weather and all mud will dry up now! ? Us horse folk rarely embrace mud but just when you need mud…?

Ha ha yes I bet it'll be impossible to find again now to begin the (hopeful) desensitisation ? I do hope that's what it is. Aren't mares just that bit too clever sometimes. My geldings would've surely forgotten that previous deep mud incident instantly afterwards ☺

I can't tell you how helpful you've all been on this. Thank you so much. I'll keep you updated (if anyone's even interested ?)

 

[PurBee]

Geldings are nice that they mostly let stuff go!

Updates are the most important part…will be interesting to hear what transpires. This forum is normally top ranking page 1 on google equine searches - its how i found the site. ? It always came up with threads for any equine enquiry i was googling, so anyone with your issue in the future will more than likely find this thread and could help solve their problem than them potentially going along another tangent of enquiry etc.

Fingers crossed you find mud ?

 

[MummyEms]

Haha yes! Strangely today she had a loose shoe so no riding for a couple of days until the farrier can get here!