What a rigmarole!

[Kenzo]

For anyone that is intersted or would like a PhD on Oestrone Sulphate Tests and the reproductive functions of an unscucesful castration...then please read on!

Ok the results were back today from his blood test, vet rang me a few times to discus the results after he'd rang the lab back and done some further research and for a more detailed anayalsis, we came to the conculsion that he could have a further test, called a HCG Stimulation test and then possibly try some hormone injections at £100.00 a pop due to the high basal level of testosterone in his body.

.....nothing is ever simple with Mr Mackenzie.

However we wouldnt know what effects (if any) could be caused with the trial/off licence injection (its like a chemical castration which only last for 6 months) in which case the vet will not accept any responsibility for, which is perfectly understandable or course as its totally up to me where I decided to go from here.

Unfortunately if you look at it this way its a bit of an inconclusive result (obscure was the vets words), he's clearly not cryptorchid, as he'd of tested 0.1 to 10 on the scale which horses that are retaining one or both testes do...hence 0.1 and anything up to 10, a geldings level is 0.02 and under, Mackenzie is further up the scale on 0.07 so not quite a cryptorchid, so proves that he is not concealing any testicles but will have some tissue left over from when he was castrated which why is still producing testosterone in his body, this tissue could be located anywhere and also may be very small, therefore not worth opening him up and digging around and the whole hassle and expense to be honest, were as if he was tested positive at 0.1 and over then at least we could operate and have a more sucessful and worthwhile result.


15% of two to three year old colts are actually rigs, so its not as uncommon as people say.

Not only that but there will be a a lot of geldings out there that are slightly mis understood and not correctly managed simply because there owners are not aware of the what is going on inside when in fact its due a hormone imbalance/high testosterone levels etc. Of course this is no excuse, most stallions are more than capable of performing and competing to the same standard if not higher than any other horse (mare/gelding) so being a true rig or a riggy gelding or horse that has been cut late should not be any different to that of a stallion.


Explained this to the OH on the phone at work and he his words were ''well at least that explains why the f*cking thing is mental then'' (he was only joking though as he did laugh ....or was he crying?) anyway he's not mental, just in case I'm giving everyone that impression, its just my non horsey OH's take on it all so that's his way of describing him!

So yes the OH's little rant/micky take about sending him off for experimentation and animal testing etc etc .....was just tongue and cheek but actually could potentially turn out to be true!

Oh well, the story continues, hope that was useful reading.

 

[Booboos]

That's very interesting, thanks for posting, although I am sure it's not fun to be a guinea pig! Sorry I have missed your other posts but what is his behaviour like that triggered the tests?

 

[samstar]

agree would like to know what made you go for the tests. Our boy acts sometime like a stallion, scent marks and doubles his mounds of poohs, moves other geldings on and mounts mare that are in season.

He is now separated from them all but in the same field

 

[Taffster]

My how interesting, hope mr mckenzie is sorted out soon if anything needs sorting. How you getting on with your d last time i heard you were going dressaging?

 

[josiesmithuk]

Oh goodness Kenzo your having a right nightmare!

Enjoyed the biology lesson though

What are your plans now with him?? Is he riggy the whole year or could you just separate him as and when the trouble starts?? We had a riggy horse years ago and used to feed that Monks Pepper?? to try and calm his feelings a little.

((hugs)) as it is very frustrating x x

 

[Kenzo]

In reply to everyone's questions,

Ok from the start but in shortened version,

Very dominant, can be very aggressive towards other horses, also again can be very aggressive if they also come near me, but he gets along fine with his heard if he has established he's boss then they all live happily and he does not pose any threat or cause any problems, doesn't pester them unless its a mare in season, in which case he mount them and does not like to be separated from them, also mares that are in season tend to go crazy if they see him around (its not his fault he's so devilishly handsome lol).
Also tried to mount me (yes I know,sounds funny but honestly it could be quite dangerous) always getting his tackle out too.
Grunts and very vocal (like stallions usually are) always sniffing the air (pulling lip up) and has started rolling in the school to lay his scent.
Short concentration span and no concentration span if mares are about, but if no other horses, highly intolerant and goes like a bloody dream horse! was pretty easy to train up and the person who just did the backing part easy to do and you've got something very special there (not half lol) which is the annoying thing) because he's do an amazing dressage test if he wasn't such a pig around other horses and he's so willing and such a quick learner and was doing so well but he just switches off and turns into a prat as soon as he gets a glance or a smell or a winny from another horse.

Tried to mount a mare while I was riding him out in a group and lunges for geldings when riding out, hence we don't ride out with others.

Angel to handle most of the time as I've put a lot of work into him, YO says he the most well behaved horse to handle on the yard and farrier says if only all his 4 yr olds were as good to shoe, so he does have a brilliant side to him, its just his mind is on other things during this summer!

He did used to be aggressive and tried to attack me when training him (lunging him) but this was a long time ago and nothing to do with the having the rig test as he's the sort of horse that has a stubborn mind and does tend to fight rather than be submissive if he's learning or does quite understands things and he was nt handled until I got him, so a late starter with ground work etc.

I didn't actually think he was a rig although it crossed my mind many a time but because he's young I have to consider this and other things and nobody knows my horse like I do, they only see the things they expect to see when they hear about rigs..so at the same time I can understand it from their point of view too if you see what I mean, I said its just the way he is, without going into all it all I've had colts and stallions in the past, so know the types of behaviour associated with young males but also know that some young geldings are just a bit more dominant at times and he's a very babyish 4 yr old plus I suppose in a way is not like there used to seeing how a young horse develops from 2 to 4 and he's going though his kevin the teenager stage, its other people suggesting that I have him tested, so for my own piece of mind and there's I had it done.

However it does explained now why he is a little more challenging at times however that is no excuse, but now hopefully I can now take the edge of him by looking into some kind of treatment so it does not hinder his training as well as learning to understand him better, well I do but its other people that dont (if you see what I mean).

Ok turned into a long story, I know, well done for gettng this far.

 

[lauraandjack]

Do you know his history before you got him? When was he castrated and by who? If he was cut late it could be largely behavioural. I used to know a gelding who would stand for hours 'pleasing the ladies' as his owner put it, however he was not aggressive.

'Rig' is a bit of a vague term in the horsey world. I suppose technically it means a horse with one or more undescended testicles, which can be either in the groin or in the abdomen. It is a BIG no-no and professionally unacceptable for a vet to remove only the visible testicle if one has been retained - if there is only one testicle present you should leave it until such time as the other one can be found and removed with it.

However, in horses the head of the epididymis is slightly separate from the body of the testicle, so if you are not careful when gelding it is possible to leave this behind. Horse would never be able to produce semen but would probably have some testosterone producing capabilities which could certainly result in stallion like behaviour. Perhaps this is a possibility with Mr Mac? Although probably not strictly describable as a rig, because removal of both testicles has actually been carried out.

Not sure what you could do about this though without resorting to expensive and invasive surgery to investigate the presence of any incompletely removed testicle.

Best of luck and I hope you find a solution soon.