What about the mare?

[Rollin]

Lots of threads about stallions but what about the mare?

I know that four super foals I have bred in France, 2 xShG and 2xCB owe as much to my quality mares as to the stallions I put them to.

My most expensive mare produces foals which are head and shoulders above other foals from the same sire. That is no accident.

 

[Spring Feather]

Blessed are the broodmares.

 

[joeanne]

I guess for the main part, people already own the mare they wish to breed from, so the topic of which stallion is always going to be the main topic of conversation.
That said there are a couple of people on this board who have mares I absolutely adore, and the foals they have produced simply are second to none!

 

[christine48]

They say the mare can have 80% influence on the foal, so I feel a good brood mare is more important than the stallion.

 

[Alec Swan]

The soundest indication of the importance of the mare can be seen in the fact that there are many fillies, by exceptional sires, but out of very nondescript mares, which are being given away. I'll agree that over the last 3 or 4 years, the incidents of disposal of the less than ideal has slowed, but still the bottom ranking mares and fillies are still being disposed of. Consider the home bred 4 yo that I've just gifted to the girl who we paid to back her; She's by Catherston Dazzler, she's out of a Weld mare, and that's the end of it. Her dam, the Weld mare was useless and unrideable, and so was her dam, and so is the filly that we've just gifted. Oh, she's been backed and broken alright, but there's not once single ounce of generosity in the bitch's body, just as there wasn't in her dam, or her dam's dam! Useless mares produce useless foals, no matter WHAT stallion is used.

If a mare has no other purpose, but than to act as a foal machine (accidental damage accepted), then she has no business being put in foal, in my view. I've learned the hard way that only the mare with the 3 vital attributes, a Will to be ridden and to comply, the Conformation to do so, and the Breeding to support her, should be considered as my type of mare. For me, the conditions would be such that I doubt that one in every ten breeding mares would be what I'd want.

Others can do as they wish, but when we have sold or disposed of ALL our stock, then maybe, just maybe, if that correct and near Goddess like creature can be found, so we may think again, and we may have another go, but "she" would need to be something special!

I accept that my views may be considered rather entrenched, but I'd need a deal of persuading to change my mind!!

Alec.

 

[GoblinPony]

I guess for the main part, people already own the mare they wish to breed from, so the topic of which stallion is always going to be the main topic of conversation.

^ This.

Broodmare owners will always be trying to find stallions of better quality than their mares. If the mare is very good, the stallion must be excellent. If the mare is excellent, the stallion must be exceptional. So, of course there will be a lot of threads discussing stallions. It's always helpful to know what kind of foals the stallion produces out of different types of mares.

 

[Aredis]

Agree, keep your very best mares for breeding the next generation.

 

[christine48]

The soundest indication of the importance of the mare can be seen in the fact that there are many fillies, by exceptional sires, but out of very nondescript mares, which are being given away. I'll agree that over the last 3 or 4 years, the incidents of disposal of the less than ideal has slowed, but still the bottom ranking mares and fillies are still being disposed of. Consider the home bred 4 yo that I've just gifted to the girl who we paid to back her; She's by Catherston Dazzler, she's out of a Weld mare, and that's the end of it. Her dam, the Weld mare was useless and unrideable, and so was her dam, and so is the filly that we've just gifted. Oh, she's been backed and broken alright, but there's not once single ounce of generosity in the bitch's body, just as there wasn't in her dam, or her dam's dam! Useless mares produce useless foals, no matter WHAT stallion is used.

If a mare has no other purpose, but than to act as a foal machine (accidental damage accepted), then she has no business being put in foal, in my view. I've learned the hard way that only the mare with the 3 vital attributes, a Will to be ridden and to comply, the Conformation to do so, and the Breeding to support her, should be considered as my type of mare. For me, the conditions would be such that I doubt that one in every ten breeding mares would be what I'd want.

Others can do as they wish, but when we have sold or disposed of ALL our stock, then maybe, just maybe, if that correct and near Goddess like creature can be found, so we may think again, and we may have another go, but "she" would need to be something special!

I accept that my views may be considered rather entrenched, but I'd need a deal of persuading to change my mind!!

Alec.

Very well said. Breeding from rubbish produces rubbish. The sooner we get more selective about the mares we breed from the better.

 

[Rollin]

PerhapsI should have asked, how many breeders seek a specific mare for their breeding operation? or is it just that the majority already have a mare they value and decide to breed from her?

I suppose my situation is a bit different because I breed rare breeds, so my foundation mares are very important.

 

[DonkeyClub]

Yes it is all about the mare, but alo its all about choosing the right stallion to cross with it. The right temperament and rideability , to compliment , or improve on the mare's temperament and rideabilty. not to mention a good performer and good conformation. That's where so many people seem to go wrong- making the right match is essential . In this country there just isn't the right knowledge and expertise on what each bloodline is producing and what matches will work.

 

[Spring Feather]

PerhapsI should have asked, how many breeders seek a specific mare for their breeding operation? or is it just that the majority already have a mare they value and decide to breed from her?

I suppose my situation is a bit different because I breed rare breeds, so my foundation mares are very important.

All of my broodmares were bought to be broodmares. I specifically chose them for their bloodlines. All are 100% sound and could continue to be competition horses, some of the younger ones may go back to competing but the older ones won't. I have quite a few riding mares that I don't breed from.

 

[NellRosk]

Consider the home bred 4 yo that I've just gifted to the girl who we paid to back her; She's by Catherston Dazzler, she's out of a Weld mare, and that's the end of it. Her dam, the Weld mare was useless and unrideable, and so was her dam, and so is the filly that we've just gifted. Oh, she's been backed and broken alright, but there's not once single ounce of generosity in the bitch's body, just as there wasn't in her dam, or her dam's dam! Useless mares produce useless foals, no matter WHAT stallion is used.

Why did you breed your mare then if it was useless and unrideable :confused3:

 

[lori ann]

We only bred from our mare who was injured as she was a quality showjumper most of her bloodline was keur preferent her grandsire was Nimmerdor. I would not have bred from her otherwise. We chose Grafenstolz as the stallion to improve movement and we knew he can be hot and bold so it has worked well for us as Fons has his mothers lovely temperament moves better than her but is bold which you need for an eventer. We have not loose jumped him but fingers crossed it should be there will start schooling in the New Year .

 

[Alec Swan]

Why did you breed your mare then if it was useless and unrideable :confused3:

It was whilst I was going through the process of learning a lesson, or two! :wink3:

Alec.

 

[NellRosk]

It was whilst I was going through the process of learning a lesson, or two! :wink3:

Alec.

Ah right, I see.

 

[Kaylum]

oh I posted a thread like this a long time ago. The answer I got was the stallion gives the best it can so a mare of poor quality doesnt really make much difference and the stallion can make all the difference to the foal.

I just thought they really have no idea.

 

[angrovestud]

We are ultra careful about our broodmares we only want proven race performers or from a family of black type as close as we can get it. I am sure the mare contributes a lot more then the stallion having bred what we set out to breed and now the broodmare is proven on her own and family performance but also her first son we bred. the mares have to want to work in my opinion.

 

[Lgd]

Something I am often banging on about.

I am a small private breeder so can afford to be picky. I will only breed from a mare that has proven herself to at least medium level dressage
It doesn't take luck completely out of the equation but certainly improves the odds.

Both of my broodies competed to PSG/Inter I before having foals. I got both graded as well.
Now bred four, lost one at 9 weeks old (typically the best of the lot!) first was reserve champion dressage foal at her KWPN foal keuring, number two Higher First dressage premium at the BEF Futurity & eligible for the equine bridge. My first attempt at breeding an eventer scored a very good first premium despite being a bit flat in the heat and vet evaluated him as a very good event prospect.

First two had a proven sire (Int GP) but the eventer was by a first season sire.
The common thread - performance tested dams. Both are retired from breeding now but still sound, rising 25yo in light work, rising 19yo is back competing and qualified for winter regionals.

 

[Alec Swan]

I suspect that there may be some truth in the belief that when TB mares are used as the dams for competition horses, because they've never really been tested; their jumping abilities, their will to succeed, their genetic input towards their potential offspring's stamina, so every now and then, and entirely by chance, they produce the goods, and the risk then is that every TB mare is grouped in with the successful, and with predictable results.

For the production of sport horses, and with careful selection, I still believe that the TB (the proper old NH type) is the start point. It's all still too hit and miss though, which is why a top class 4* mare who's done Badminton could probably be bought for £100k, whilst a show jumping or dressage mare, at that same level, will have a perceived value of 5 or 6 times that amount, at the very least.

Oh to have a bottomless pocket, to match the bottomless pit!! I would wish all of those on here a Happy New Year, and that your plans for your youngsters are as successful as they are realistic!

Alec.

 

[vanrim]

You definitely need a special mare to breed from. I bought my old mare from the now defunct Broadstone Stud. They had some lovely brood mares but in particular 3 of the really special broodmares produced the best foals every year regardless of which stallion they were put to. My mare has produced mare by Diamond Hit who is the spitting image of her in looks and mannerisms. The stallion has had an influence of course but there is no doubt who the mother is. If I was buying young stock I would be wanting to know all about the mother line.

 

[Lgd]

........ I still believe that the TB (the proper old NH type) is the start point.
Alec.

:nod: My foundation mare that competed to PSG/Inter I is actually 7/8 TB from old NH bloodlines and when muscled up looks like a small WB. The KWPN loved her when I presented her at the keuring and couldn't believe that she was 19yo as she was so athletic and still had clean legs after eventing and dressaging to the levels she had.

 

[volatis]

Breed the best, ride the rest. My best mares are retained as breeding prospects. One is currently starting her ridden career and if she passes her performance test nthis autumn will retire to the breeding shed. She's from a stellar mare family so it makes sense to let the gelding go out and compete and to breed from her

 

[angrovestud]

Our stallions dam was by a TB Puissance winner who's dams sire was a flat group 1 winner who also sired top National Hunt horses as well as flat breds. our filly will be tested on the track as she is already co owned like the colt we bred in 2012 so keeping fingers crossed for both of them they have big shoes to fill.

 

[Hollycatt]

When I am looking for a mare or filly to buy as a riding horse, a lot of my decision making is based on whether she will make a good broodmare. Its far easier to stallion shop and find a good stallion, than it is to find a good broodmare. I would rather spend a bit more (or have to buy a younger, less established horse under saddle) to get a mare that has outstanding bloodlines and whose damline is successfully producing performance horses. She then has to be a good individual in her own right. To get all of these attributes together is not easy or cheap, but it does give me the best chance of producing a nice foal