What age do you think is right to break and ride a horse?

[Daisychain]

Just noting over the past few weeks peoples often horrified attitudes of breaking in horses of 3yrs or less.

Out of interest, what are your reasons for this and on what basis?

I actually break my horses at 3, but i have worked in the racing industry and ridden out horses as young as 2. I have also bought horses from Ireland which have had a full seasons hunting at 3 with no detriment.

It is actually scientifically proven that race horses broke at 2 actually have much stronger bone in the long run than horses broken in later.

So what is it then, scientific evidence or tradition?

 

[MistletoeMegan]

Show me the scientific evidence

 

[Daisychain]

There was a big article in horse and hound a year or so ago!

 

[Coffee_Bean]

Hhmm, i guess I've just always thought that at 2 the majority of them are still very babyish in their heads, even if their bodys can take it. I also think that they look really babyish

But that's interesting about their bones.

At the end of the day, age is a number, and each horse is an individual, if a horse is ready at two, its ready at two, if a horse isn't ready until it's four then so be it.

 

[Chico Mio]

I don't know, but I believe that different breeds mature at different rates. So a TB can be racing at two years old but an Arab would not do so well being broken at such an early age. As a matter of fact, I have spent a long time finding a horse that has only been broken after four years old, as they tend to break them aound two in my area. Newbi was five in May and was only broken earlier this year as his previous owner believes that sport horses (he is for endurance) should not be broken until they are around this age to give them a chance to develop.

 

[Digger123]

Just done mine and he will be 4 next June. He stand at 15.2 so we wanted to get him started before he gets any bigger and before he gets any bright ideas.Planning on turning him away over winter and then get him back in the new year.

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

It also depends what type of horse you have. A tb might mature at 4, but a cob or native won't mature until 7 or 8, so backing a 3 year old cob is like backing an 18 month old (or younger!) tb. Personally I never break until 4, turn them away, and bring them back into work when they are 5. I would rather wait a year longer to break them and have the riding an extra x number of years into their old age, than break them early and have to retire them early due damage done by breaking them before they have matured enough.

 

[diggerbez]

as above i think in depends on the type of horse really...altho personally i wouldn't break one under 3 years old and then i'd assess how mature they were as to how much they would do. i think racehorses are different- they aren't being broken in to do the same type of job as say a hunter or potential eventer so not a problem for many being done as a 2 year old....

 

[corinnematthews]

Oh it so depends on what they are bred for.....yearlings are broken to go racing, and I had a 14 year old pointer who went that route and was never un sound or sorry for himself! But someones lovely that is as fat as a pig at 4 years (because he was left to develop....) is far more likely to have more problems! For me, back a stong 2 year old, and turn him away, then pick him back up at 3 years, maybe a bit of more concentrated work, put him away again, and then expect more at 4 years and so on. Horses for courses!

 

[Daisychain]

Yes i like your train of thought, it is all down to the horse! I am fed up with the should and shant way tbh.

 

[pixiebee]

I guess you are refering to your post a few days ago about taking your newly broken 3 yr old cob on a fun ride and jumping him?

Still think cobs/native/anything thick set with higher bone density should be left longer to mature physically.
Some breeds such as arabs may be physically but not mentally mature.

Answer-anywhere from 3 1/2 to break in and 4 plus to school lightly and 5 to jump. Thats my opinion anyway!

 

[HumBugsey]

I wouldn't put any weight on a horse under 3. If they look grown at 3 I'd go for it, if they don't I'd wait. But I have no issue with lunging/longlineing with tack at 2 1/2 as long as it's short and sweet. Also known a lot of horses broken to drive at 2 1/2 but it's different, theres no weight bareing, it's usually done in a light two wheeled breaking charriot, on the flat, in walk and trot. With the chunks it can be benificial to get their brains engaged younger so they're can develop they're co-ordination! Wobbly baby chunks aren't fun! lol

 

[CleverHorses]

I break mine in at 3 yrs, I break them in, get them schooling a bit even introduce them to a bit of pole work and small jumping. This is often in the autumn, then give them the winter off bring them back in the spring start hacking, more schooling so on hopefully to event them in the 4 yr old classes if ready or good enough.

 

[Nickijem]

I wish some-one would tell our local travelling community all this. I am sick of seeing babies pulling the trotting rigs down our road at break-neck speed and being ridden bare-back by heavy lads. But I suppose they would just argue that that's how they have always broken their horses.

 

[Daisychain]

Yes totally agree with you here, i have mainly broken big horses and sometimes they have felt very wobbly at 3, i have currently broken a cob in and he is incredibly well balanced walks trots and canters perfectly on a circle and pops small jumps! And loves a quiet fun ride (horror upon horrors!)

He is in no way abused and is lovingly looked after and cared for.

 

[PapaFrita]

I'm pretty sure that for every article extolling the virtues of backing horses under 3 and the benefit it has on the density of their bone, you can find another article describing the wear and tear on the joints and long-term damage. And of course that's just the physical aspect; the psychological consequences are something else. I think it's a 'piece of string' question. Personally I would back at 3 and not jump at all until 4.

 

[Daisychain]

You have worked around showjumpers, what do you think of loose schooling over jumps at 3? do you think this is detrimental or beneficial.

 

[janet68]

I first sat my irish draft at 2 backed him at 3 and tried to bring him into work @ 4(unsuccessfully) still trying @ 5 but think he is work shy as everytime i try to do anything he goes and hurts himself. And have a clydesdale that i bought poor and wont even attemt to sit on him till he is at least 4

 

[diggerbez]

[ QUOTE ]
You have worked around showjumpers, what do you think of loose schooling over jumps at 3? do you think this is detrimental or beneficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think thats an interesting question DC

personally i think a horse is ready when its ready and you have to judge them individually. for example my 4 year old is jumping small courses and is off to camp this week for 3 days SJ and XC tuition. some people will think this is too much, i don't. he wouldn't have been ready as a 3 year old (he is still very immature looking i think) but some 3 year olds are ready for small stuff- how the hell do people like pippa funnell etc get theirs ready for BYEH otherwise?!

with regards to loose jumping some of the jumps they put 3 year olds at are mahoooosive! surely more damage can be done like this than popping a few x poles with a rider on out of trot?

 

[HumBugsey]

I think popping a youngster over a few jumps loose once in a while to see what there going to be like won't do any long term harm. Once in a while to me means like once in 6 months. They can already be jumping out of fields/over ditches quite young! If they're valueble or have great things expected of them it can be usful to see how they're getting on.

 

[diggerbez]

oh i totally agree with this but some of the youngsters at the big sales have been more than "popped" once or twice in a 6th month period- they have to be to be that polished at coming down the lane to an enormous oxer
(i'm not against loose jumping babies at all- its how i decided to buy my youngster but was just wondering why people have heart failure at talk of popping a three year old over a jump under saddle but don't bat an eyelid at loosing them over much bigger stuff- being pedantic really

)

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that for every article extolling the virtues of backing horses under 3 and the benefit it has on the density of their bone, you can find another article describing the wear and tear on the joints and long-term damage. And of course that's just the physical aspect; the psychological consequences are something else. I think it's a 'piece of string' question. Personally I would back at 3 and not jump at all until 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put money on it!!

And while sprint-bred TBs ARE backed at about 18 months, I've SEEN the consequences first hand having spent a couple of years working with one of the top 2 year old trainers in Oz. Shin soreness/bucked shins is the most common - about one in 3 two year olds developed it and had to be turned away without racing. Concussion injury to joints was also common - some came back sound after 6 months in the field - many didn't!

Probably only one in 3 of the 50+ 2 year olds that came into training at that yard each year actually raced as 2 year olds - and it was soundness that stopped them! The trainer concerned was one of the first to start routinely x-raying two year olds to see if they were mature enough to stand training - turning the ones that weren't back out!

I usually back my pure-bred and part-bred IDs between 3 and 4 - but they do minimal lunging (on as big a circle as possible) and the minimum of work in the school to make them 'safe'. They then hack out quietly, for less than 45 minutes mainly in walk and trot, for the next 3-6 months.

We get a LOT of people wanting to send 2 year olds to be backed because 'they're getting so big"! That's the best reason to leave them another 12 months - poor babies are still growing!

 

[PapaFrita]

I don't have a problem with loose jumping 3 year-olds as long as it's not done too often. Once a month is more than enough IMO. Of course the surface has to be good and fences not huuuge, but I know someone who used to loose jump their 3 year old every other day at heights well over 4ft and that I think can't do any good. At the very least it could make a horse 'sour', don't you think? I don't think loose jumping generally is particularly beneficial beyond getting horses used to the idea of jumping (nice to watch though

) but it is necessary if you want to sell your unbacked SJ prospect. YO was popping his foals (7-9 mths old) over little fences (around 2ft) the other day and I just couldn't see the point! He asked me if I wanted to jump the Little Cigar and I declined, even though LC on his own is inclined to leap over anything in his way

Considering that most horses here are considered ancient and wayyy past it at 17, I think it's pretty safe to say that they tend to do too much rather than too little with them at too early an age.

 

[hadfos]

I dont think you can set an age and say it is right,depends on their stature at 3

,some are physically capable of it others are not!
I have a tb who has never raced and i started lunging him at 3,he had numerous breaks throughout,and wasnt completely backed...hacking out etc until he was 6,but he is 17hh now,and didnt stop growing/filling out till he was 8,i feel i did the right thing as he was still growing

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
oh i totally agree with this but some of the youngsters at the big sales have been more than "popped" once or twice in a 6th month period- they have to be to be that polished at coming down the lane to an enormous oxer

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you're right about that. However, last month I went to an auction and all the horses were loose jumped there and then during the bidding. The atmosphere was electric and many of the horses were distracted/stressed by the buzz, noise etc. and so didn't jump as well as in the promotional video. There's no real way to get them ready for that, is there? Unless you invite all your mates round for a party and get the horses loose jumping then

[ QUOTE ]
(i'm not against loose jumping babies at all- its how i decided to buy my youngster but was just wondering why people have heart failure at talk of popping a three year old over a jump under saddle but don't bat an eyelid at loosing them over much bigger stuff- being pedantic really

)

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't see it as just a question of additional weight. After all, horses do all sorts of things on their own (hoolying around on hard/slippery ground for a start!) that we wouldn't do under saddle. A young horse has to contend with weight that shifts, has to balance differently, etc, etc. Obviously some horses are just more balanced than others so really each case has to be assessed individually

Do you disagree though that lots and LOTS of SJers and dressage horses are overproduced? I've read sooo much about people buying very young dressage horses shown doing advanced movements and 'trotting for ten' and then having to be taken right back to basics so they don't get ruined. Sort of the same thing goes for SJers, I think.
Sorry, turned into a bit of a ramble there...

 

[Haha]

I'd put money on it!! And while sprint-bred TBs ARE backed at about 18 months, I've SEEN the consequences first hand having spent a couple of years working with one of the top 2 year old trainers in Oz. Shin soreness/bucked shins is the most common - about one in 3 two year olds developed it and had to be turned away without racing. Concussion injury to joints was also common - some came back sound after 6 months in the field - many didn't!

Probably only one in 3 of the 50+ 2 year olds that came into training at that yard each year actually raced as 2 year olds - and it was soundness that stopped them! The trainer concerned was one of the first to start routinely x-raying two year olds to see if they were mature enough to stand training - turning the ones that weren't back out!

[ QUOTE ]
I usually back my pure-bred and part-bred IDs between 3 and 4 - but they do minimal lunging (on as big a circle as possible) and the minimum of work in the school to make them 'safe'. They then hack out quietly, for less than 45 minutes mainly in walk and trot, for the next 3-6 months.

We get a LOT of people wanting to send 2 year olds to be backed because 'they're getting so big"! That's the best reason to leave them another 12 months - poor babies are still growing!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably the reason there are so many TB ex racers or the one's that don't make the grade being sold and flooding markets.

 

[millitiger]

i think regardless of how mature a horse looks on the outside you have absolutely no idea how his growth plates, bone density etc are shaping up inside.

and breaking a horse at 2 before it gets too big is totally wrong imo, if you haven't got the guts to break a big horse, get someone else to do it at 3 or 4.

i like to do some long reining and in hand shows over the summer of the 3yro year and lightly back them in the autumn- walking, trotting out on short hacks. no schooling!

then they have a break over the worst weather in winter and come back into work in the spring of their 4yro year. more hacking, little outings to hire the local school etc.

i would never jump a horse under saddle at 3- i haven't even loose jumped mine yet!
but i don't see the point in jumping for jumpings sake- i like my horse to be well balanced and confident in the contact etc before jumping under saddle.

i may take mine slow but am reaping the rewards now they are older.

 

[Festive_Felicitations]

I think teh breaking age depends o nthe horse but below the age of 5 most horses should be limited in the amount of work they do, ie never more than 1 hr/day. No real (over 90cm) jumping with a rider till 5. But thats just my view.

I do think that the cost of keeping a horse puts pressure on people to have them broken and 'earning their keep' at a younger age. Few people have the space to have a horse in work and 1 or 2 youngster chilling in a field.

With all the Young horse classes, there was a very interesting article I read either in an Aus mag or H&H about how often we see horses winning the 3/4/5yr old classes that then disappear and are not heard of again. The article then went on to list several examples and even tried to track down some of the horses, alot had been sold and couldn't be found, a few were still with the same owners and out at grass due to injury (in all honestly most of these were mainly self inflicted).
So I am not sure how good an idea they are, surely a more rational age break for them would be 4/5/6 or 5/6/7...

 

[kellyeaton]

i say play around bitting and long reining that kind of stuff at about 2 and a half and then back around 3 3 and half then start lungeing that kind of age but very slowly and not for to long!

 

[mineon]

I think it really is down tho the breed of the horse and the horse him self, I've backed a lusitano 17hh at 3 then turned away (when I say backed i mean sat on walk trot in school couple of short hack then turned away till next year) then my 5 yrs old ID X 18hh now didn't back her till she was 4 then turned away till this year.