What am I doing wrong? :(

biggingerpony

biggingerpony

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Hello, for those of that don't remember I posted a few days ago with pics of my barefoot TBs hooves and got a great response.

Here's a link to that thread if you want to have a look:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=542554

But I seem to have taken 2 steps forward and about a million back. I got really upset about it today, Rosie came in struggling over the gravel path mainly sticking to the grassy area in front.... pretty much my whole livery yard was at the school not watching Rosie but watching her hooves and her pick her way through the gravel I'm the only person at yard who's barefoot. I could have burst into tears, no-one said anything but I felt like the worlds worst owner.

It is highly unlikely that she has lami, I am vigilant in checking for it daily. (No pulses, heat and is happy in herself. In the field today she is quite happy to charge around) She is a healthy weight and kept on a pretty much bare paddock with soaked hay as necessary.

Anyway, thats just the tip of the iceberg. She's got thrush in her two front frogs, that is refusing to budge. I've been trying to treat it for about 3months now. I pick out hooves twice daily and I have Tried treating with very dilute hibiscrub, sudocrem, canesten, tea tree oil and salt solution and its just not going. At the moment I'm standing her in the salt solution and scrubbing her hoof daily and then spraying with tea tree oil. I've been doing that for two weeks.

She is now refusing to eat her food, (fast-fibre, linseed, magox, multi-vit, salt, mint, devils claw even when mixed with sugary honeychop chaff) despite her having exactly the same feed (minus chaff) since january. It's getting so fustrating, having to tip away food after its been out with her all night and she hasen't touched it.. despite being on a bare paddock.

She is ridden out in hoof boots on hacks with small gel pads and they are fine and is exercised as much as possible (within her comfort limits). Be it lunging, walking out in hand or riding.

I'm not at the moment able to afford to have grass analysed, probally will be in a position to late summer.

I honestly do not know what to do, after this barefoot experience it has made me realise I do not like shoes and ideally do not want her to go back into them.
She was lame last year when shod, had the winter off and shoes taken off and is now sound. I don't want to revert back to the lameness issues again.
But at the same time I realise she is not coping well and to be honest I have no clue what to do I could cry. :(

She has been without shoes since last september.

I am about to ring farrier and vet is coming out for a blood test anyway next thurs so will talk to them about it. Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts?
 
Sorry I do not have the knowledge to help but I have posted in reply that I think you should change the title of your thread to make it clear that your question is about barefoot management so it will attract the people that can help. Best wishes .
 
Hi Milly, I'm so sorry to hear things are going wrong for you. I too have the only barefoot horse on my yard and know exactly how awful it is to know people are watching your horse and judging you for it. Total sympathy there.

Ok, feed issues, have you tried putting coolstance copra meal in her feeds? This works for my lad and he licks the bucket completely clean every time. I would completely avoid the sugary chaff because that will definitely cause problems in a barefoot diet. Can I also suggest that instead of a multi vitamin supplement you try something like pro hoof or pro balance? I use pro balance and it does make a difference.

The thrush won't be helping as it's really painful for horses so I'd suggest Field Paste, I think it's made by someone called Red Horse but can't remember too well. I've used it and found it really helped. You can order it from the website. Pm me if you can't find it and I'll get details for you.

Can you put the hoof boots on her to walk across the gravel track? That would ease her discomfort and also save you some of the awkwardness of people watching.

Lastly it's possible that there might be more grass than you think in your bare patch so maybe try taking her off of it completely for 24 hours and see what happens if you can. I'd also suggest making sure your hay isn't made from rye grass as this can be really high sugar so even soaked may have an effect.

Don't give up, there's lots of help on here, far more knowledgeable than I am and there are so many benefits to being barefoot. If the yard watchers are getting you down drop me a pm and I'll happily provide some support, as I'm going through the mill there too.

It will get better. :) x
 
White lightening can be used to blitz stubborn thrush.

Have you tried any of the mineral supplements suggested in the thread? They really can make a big difference. I know you say she doesn't have laminitis, but it sounds like she has sole sensitivity, which has similar causes.

How much salt is she getting?

Regarding palatability, most horses go mad for a few Spillers High Fibre cubes, and they seem to be well tolerated, so they may be worth a try.
 
OP - does your horse's hooves still look like or similar to the ones in the previous thread?

They look LGL to me with thin soles etc. Combine with thrush and your horse is going to find walking about on hard/stoney surfaces very difficult. Thrush can be the most painful thing of all.

I second the field paste.

I might use wheat bran rather than spillers high fibre cubes or anything with a suspicious name like honey chop (I don't know that one). I don't feed Spillers period. or Baileys. Not with a horse that is struggling like this.

You might have to bite the bullet and get an experienced barefooter to give you the benefit of some hands on experience.
 
bikerchickone said:
Hi Milly, I'm so sorry to hear things are going wrong for you. I too have the only barefoot horse on my yard and know exactly how awful it is to know people are watching your horse and judging you for it. Total sympathy there.

Ok, feed issues, have you tried putting coolstance copra meal in her feeds? This works for my lad and he licks the bucket completely clean every time. I would completely avoid the sugary chaff because that will definitely cause problems in a barefoot diet. Can I also suggest that instead of a multi vitamin supplement you try something like pro hoof or pro balance? I use pro balance and it does make a difference.

The thrush won't be helping as it's really painful for horses so I'd suggest Field Paste, I think it's made by someone called Red Horse but can't remember too well. I've used it and found it really helped. You can order it from the website. Pm me if you can't find it and I'll get details for you.

Can you put the hoof boots on her to walk across the gravel track? That would ease her discomfort and also save you some of the awkwardness of people watching.

Lastly it's possible that there might be more grass than you think in your bare patch so maybe try taking her off of it completely for 24 hours and see what happens if you can. I'd also suggest making sure your hay isn't made from rye grass as this can be really high sugar so even soaked may have an effect.

Don't give up, there's lots of help on here, far more knowledgeable than I am and there are so many benefits to being barefoot. If the yard watchers are getting you down drop me a pm and I'll happily provide some support, as I'm going through the mill there too.

It will get better. :) x
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Hiya bikerchickone, thank you for your reply. I'm new to the yard and at my last yard there were other bf folk around I could ask advice from. It all feels lonely now! With the coolstance copra, I was looking into that the other day actually... Do you just mix it into the ff? Yes I have ordered pro hoof as was suggested on other thread, but don't want to try and feed it until I know shes going to eat it! I will also look at keeping her in. Thank you for the offer of PMing you and I probally will do in the future :) x

Nocturnal said:
White lightening can be used to blitz stubborn thrush.

Have you tried any of the mineral supplements suggested in the thread? They really can make a big difference. I know you say she doesn't have laminitis, but it sounds like she has sole sensitivity, which has similar causes.

How much salt is she getting?

Regarding palatability, most horses go mad for a few Spillers High Fibre cubes, and they seem to be well tolerated, so they may be worth a try.
Click to expand...

Hiya nocturnal, shes gets a heaped table spoon of salt a day (when she decides to eat it) does the white lightening damage the surrounding hoof? I guess its the lesser of two evils I am worried about that, but I guess shes had it for so long my treatments just aren't working.

Have ordered prohoof and will give it to her when I know shes going to eat it, the spillers high fibre cubes would I mix it with the ff?

I'm no expert but I can press down firmly on her soles and they won't budge but she is flat footed with little concavity, her frogs will indent a bit though, especially around the bulbs. I'm not sure if thats normal?!
 
Hi Milly, the copra meal needs to be fed very wet, it kind of fluffs up to a similar consistency to sugar beet just not quite so wet ideally.

Field Paste is a god send, totally natural and doesn't damage the rest of the foot. I think it cost me about £16 for a large pot and it lasts a while.

If you need a chat drop me a pm anytime. It's hard to get it right but so worth it when you do. :) x
 
LucyPriory said:
OP - does your horse's hooves still look like or similar to the ones in the previous thread?

They look LGL to me with thin soles etc. Combine with thrush and your horse is going to find walking about on hard/stoney surfaces very difficult. Thrush can be the most painful thing of all.

I second the field paste.

I might use wheat bran rather than spillers high fibre cubes or anything with a suspicious name like honey chop (I don't know that one). I don't feed Spillers period. or Baileys. Not with a horse that is struggling like this.

You might have to bite the bullet and get an experienced barefooter to give you the benefit of some hands on experience.
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Hello LP, yes that photo was only taken a couple of days ago so will look the same. I have just bought some field paste now online so hopefully that should treat the thrush.
I know that the honey chop does contain high amounts of sugar and I only added it in the last week or so to try and make her food more tempting so I could then wean her off it again. (It obviously hasen't worked!)
Is there anything more management wise I could do to make her more comfortable? Do you think I should stable her?
Yes I think I am in need of help. So I will try and find a BF practitioner in kent.
 
xmillyx said:
Hiya nocturnal, shes gets a heaped table spoon of salt a day (when she decides to eat it) does the white lightening damage the surrounding hoof? I guess its the lesser of two evils I am worried about that, but I guess shes had it for so long my treatments just aren't working.

Have ordered prohoof and will give it to her when I know shes going to eat it, the spillers high fibre cubes would I mix it with the ff?

I'm no expert but I can press down firmly on her soles and they won't budge but she is flat footed with little concavity, her frogs will indent a bit though, especially around the bulbs. I'm not sure if thats normal?!
Click to expand...

I've not used WL myself, but know of a couple of EPs who use it. I've used Milton for mild thrush with some success, but the best remedy is getting the horse exfoliating its own feet, but in your case that's obviously proving tricky. I have heard good reports about Redhorse products, though, so hopefully you'll have some luck with that.

The spillers cubes can be mixed with FF, or the cubes themselves can be soaked into a mash which seems to go down well, but I see LucyPriory advises against it. I have a TB with similar hooves, and can't say the Spillers cubes have caused any problems, but it's up to you. Perhaps you could ask around for some samples to find something that works before shelling out for big sacks?

The frogs are likely softened a bit due to the thrush, but sole sensitivity can't be measured by applying pressure to the sole in that way. It's caused by inflamation of the corium, and is sometimes thought to be a precursor to laminitis, though often the latter never seems to develop.
 
Thank you nocturnal for that info, I must sound like such a numpty :( before I moved yards I was actually getting somewhere with regards to her hooves... now its all gone to pot.
 
xmillyx said:
Thank you nocturnal for that info, I must sound like such a numpty :( before I moved yards I was actually getting somewhere with regards to her hooves... now its all gone to pot.
Click to expand...

Not at all :D.

If she was better at the old yard, then I'd examine the differences between the two yards - terrain, management, forage and grazing, to see if you can pin down what might be the cause of the deterioration.

Oh, and the salt level should be enough. Does she tend toward an acidy gut at all? If so, you could try adding a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda to act as a buffer.
 
Sorry you're having such a rough time! I'm sorry, can't help with the other issues but I second everyone who recommends Red Horse Field Paste - it works brilliantly and has finally cleared my girl's very stubborn thrush. It's especially useful if they're out in wet conditions.

Also, Silver Foot (I think that's what it's called) is good, and conditions the entire hoof. But the Field Paste is great - bit expensive tho ;)
 
Hiya Lucy I'm in the Wye (Ashford area) Rosies field is literally on the slope of the downs so its a chalky soil. Field grass is fairly old and has large patches of nettles/thistles etc.

Nocturnal - not sure about acidy, but she def gets a grassy belly when she gets to much. Bicarb might be an idea!

Planet Hacking and Surrey - Thank you for your help! I've ordered the field paste, so if that doesn't work I'll try your suggestions.

Would you think that turning her out in hoofboots with fieldpaste packed in with cotton wool is a good idea? I was suggested this by someone but feel like the hoof should be able to breathe a bit if that makes sense?
 
I might get shot down for this but when my horses have had thrush i've always sprayed on diluted jeyes fluid. I just do it every second day until the thrush is gone, has always worked with mine :)
 
OP - don't get downhearted just yet. I struggled badly over winter with my TB mare who had her shoes taken off in November. Something I did notice from your first post is that you are feeding Devil's Claw. I used to feed that to my mare, and then I ran out and didn't replace it. She improved quite dramatically on her feet after that, so I won't feed it now, and she has been much better since (and her arthritis has got better, not worse, so I doubt the Devil's Claw did anything at all!). I don't know whether it had anything to do with it, but after months of trying to stop the soreness it seemed mighty strange that a couple of weeks after finishing the Devil's Claw, all the soreness seemed to ease!
I also use Pro Hoof, micronised linseed and Fast Fibre. Mine also wouldn't eat the Fast Fibre at first, but if you are going to bring your horse in during the day, just leave the bucket in the stable and I bet it's gone by the time you go to the yard later on....
I know Lucy doesn't advocate feeding the Spillers high fibre cubes, but in the beginning, I put a small scoop of them into the FF and she ate it eventually - she doesn't get any cubes at all now and eats the FF quite enthusiastially - I just slowly reduced the cubes until she was getting none at all.
Good luck :)
 
Our vet mixed up a concoction of his own for painting onto thrushy frogs-it had been used to great effect on cattle! It was a runny,bluish liquid-no idea what was in it but within a week of putting it on,thrush was gone:) The bottle of it that we had was treated like liquid gold on the yard-v precious&used sparingly by anyone that needed it,so as not to waste it! Maybe ask yr vet when he/she comes next? Hope your girl improves soon:)
 
Jeyes fluid is highly toxic and should not be used on any living being.

Milly I had some hay analysed from that sort of area - generally low in minerals across the board but esp magnesium.

You may just find your problems are related to the crazy weather we are having which seems to be creating a permanent spring

good luck
 
Hey Milly, I'm sure you're not doing anything wrong. Has she been wormed since you moved? Could be that I guess. The red horse products are really good btw. I would imagine the reason she's not eating her food is that she's not hungry butbid get rid of the honey chop and lickit if you use one.
You know you can always text me
Xx
 
Sorry your having a hard time. Don't worry about others on the yard half the time people aren't thinking as much about what you are doing as you think they are.

No experience of barefoot but plenty of people on here do. Can I ask why you give her so much salt? Is this a barefoot management thing? Personally I would leave out the salt a lot of horses don't like it and just give her a salt or mineral lick to have when she wants it. I've certainly seen horses put off by overly salty food or foods with too many supplements. My own horse who is half pig won't eat food if it's too salty and won't tolerate the recommended dose of vit and min supplement especially this time of year when the grass is rich. I don't know if this is suitable for barefooters but I feed mine 1/4 stubbs scoop Dengie alfa-a nuts soaked with a handful of hi-fi lite and he likes that and seems to enjoy it - I had trouble getting him to eat his joint supplements and this really helped.

Second getting farrier to check there is nothing else going on though.

Good luck :)
 
'I think the first thing to do is get rid of the thrush until that's sorted you don't really know where you are at.
IBH I would call the vet and get some advice. Your horse has cushings have I got that right I think you should get proper advice in case that is complicating things somehow .
On the not eating I have had problems getting my horses to eat feeds with there supplements in, what I usually do is stop giving any bucket feed for two to three days then restart you can try bringing leaving with nothing for a while then feeding.i have good results adding oats ( small amounts ) to the feeds with one I stopped bucket food for three days then started with no supplements then added one at a time until I realised that pro hoof was the issue swopped to something else and that sorted the issue.
I hope you get sorted soon.
 
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