What am I doing wrong ?

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xRomi&Darcy4Evax

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I am having serious problems with my 7 year old mare. Every winter since I’ve had her she’s repelled against being ridden for some reason but I’ve always been able to find a way to get her round it. I am 16 and not what any one would call an experienced horse woman, but I’ve been around and loved horses my whole life. I’ve had my horse for nearly 3 years now and she is one of the most suborn animals I have ever met. If a new rider gets on her back she will literally just stand there and not move. In the time I’ve owned her she has pretty much tried out every naughty habit there is; bolting, napping, biting, bucking, refusing to walk forward when being ridden and bucking on the spot when asked to, refusing to lunge, refusing to be caught in the field, being a pain to tack up, refusing to let me get on, squashing people up against the side of the stable and rearing. Every time we got her out of one habit she found a new one but we managed to cure her of all of theses and for about 6 months she was an absolute angel but then I began bringing her into hard work and the weather got colder and she has began playing up again. Ever since I got her she has been a 'rearer', its just always been her way of getting out of something she didn't want to do. The first day I got her home I was grazing her in hand and out of no where she went up vertically and decided to go for a tour of her new yard, another time I was bringing her in from the field early to go to a show and she decided she didn’t want to come in so she reared up completely out of nowhere and came down directly on my head,which resulted in 4 stitches and a very sore head. But with a little help of other more experience handlers we managed to break her little habit and she hadn’t done it for about a year, until a few weeks ago when she rediscovered her favorite tactic. Now it is near enough to impossible to get on her, at first we though she may be in pain so we got out the saddler and a back expert to check for any problems in her back, she has also been checked over by a vet and they have found nothing to be causing any bad behavior. Her new very dangerous way of stopping me from mounting is rearing as soon as I or any one else attempts to get on, she also kicks out her front legs at who ever is holding her and tries to bite them where they are holding the reins. Every time I attempt to get on she seems to get worse and the only time she will allow it is if she knows she is going out for a hack or if i get on her bareback where she knows she will be doing very light work really. The other day I was trying to get on her and my mum was holding her still, she reared and when she came down her hooves hit my mum in the head, luckily she was wearing a hat because she knows how dangerous she can be but it is now getting to the point where I'm getting nervous being around her as she really is just getting worse and worse. I just don't know what to do with her any more I feel like our relationship has been ruined and i just don't understand why she obviously has no respect for me. I am not a push over with her but she has now realised that she has a power over me and she's making the most of it. Am I really to inexperienced to be looking after horses or is she just a particularly bad case? I just don't know what to do anymore and I don't want any one to end up getting badly hurt.
 
Have you got an instructor? If not I suggest you get one or get an experienced friend to come and help you sort out some manners for her. Three years of this sort of behaviour is appalling.
 
Sounds like pain to me. I'd get a full work up by a vet first. And then if vet gives the all clear then get some professional help.
 
If the behaviour only happens in winter, perhaps you change something in her management. If you give her hard feed, I think in your shoes I would stop giving her anything at all,other than hay/haylage, give her two weeks off and then see how she does. The stopping feeding includes any treats, apples, carrots etc.
 
Please find an understanding, truly professional person to help you before you are put off for life and someone is hurt. I am sure this situation can be turned round if you get support and advice from someone you and your horse can trust - it will take a while but you will learn a lot. I am speaking as someone who has had difficulties in the past and found, through personal recommendation from a friend, an expert who helped me out. It will cost you money no doubt, but you really cannot go on as you are without support from a kind expert. Best wishes.
 
Thanks for your comments. Yes I have a very good instructor, she gave me a technique on how to stop her doing this and it worked for a while and then she worked out a way of getting round it as she does most things. And most of the bad habits did not last more than a week or so as we managed to break them pretty quickly but she is very clever and is constantly trying to think of new ways to get out of things. There were also long periods of time she went through where she was absolutely amazing, sweet and loving mare and this is what constantly made me change my mind about selling her. I am considering sending her a away to a professional now and just hope that they can fix her.
 
When she rears when you are mounting, you say she doesn't do it if you're going for a hack. Does she only do this in the school? The only reason I ask is because I have a TB mare who has physical issues and is strangely fine to hack, but get her in the school and she will stop at nothing in her efforts to get me off....has the horse always reared when you try to get on, or is this recent?
 
She is a Dutch warmblood X connemara and she has already had a full check over by a vet and given the all clear that there are no problems. Today was the first time I have ridden her after giving her just over a two weeks of rest (which she has absolutely loved) and if anything she was worse than ever and even tried to turn and kick with her hind legs :(
 
When she rears when you are mounting, you say she doesn't do it if you're going for a hack. Does she only do this in the school? The only reason I ask is because I have a TB mare who has physical issues and is strangely fine to hack, but get her in the school and she will stop at nothing in her efforts to get me off....has the horse always reared when you try to get on, or is this recent?
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When I hack I get on at a block just outside the school and there are usually a group of us going out so she lets me get on no problem knowing she going for a nice relaxing ride, I have tried getting on her with another horse there just some how she knows, i guess its my body language that gives it away. but no matter where i get on her she plays up, even mounting from the ground which is a new thing that she used to be fine with and no she has not always done this she did it last year but no where near as badly and we broke it pretty quickly.
 
xRomi&Darcy4Evax said:
When I hack I get on at a block just outside the school and there are usually a group of us going out so she lets me get on no problem knowing she going for a nice relaxing ride, I have tried getting on her with another horse there just some how she knows, i guess its my body language that gives it away. but no matter where i get on her she plays up, even mounting from the ground which is a new thing that she used to be fine with and no she has not always done this she did it last year but no where near as badly and we broke it pretty quickly.
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So if you go for a hack, and then take her into the school when you get back from the hack, what happens then? The only reason I ask is because my horse was diagnosed with navicular last year - and what you describe are the same habits that she displayed.
 
Holly Hocks said:
So if you go for a hack, and then take her into the school when you get back from the hack, what happens then? The only reason I ask is because my horse was diagnosed with navicular last year - and what you describe are the same habits that she displayed.
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No I have not tried this and is definitely an option I'm just worried she will not allow me to get on at all after she works out that after I take her out I school her.
 
I havnt read all responses so sorry if I'm repeating

It sounds like pain to me. I know you said she's been checked but she sounds incredibly similar to what my mare was like.

She also tried every single trick in the book, virtually everything you described and more, although rearing was the most popular. She too had spells of good behaviour before reverting to old habits but 100% worse. I had her checked by everyone and tried everything we could think of; chiro, physio, vet work up, 2 dif saddles, teeth, changes of diet after speaking to nutritionists, time off, more work, lots of lessons. Sent her away and she got sent back after 2 weeks as rider broke his leg.

We were at a total loss. Contacted someone else about reschooling her and they wanted another deep muscle therapist to see her. As soon as this lady started treating her i knew she found the issue as she started fighting to get away (therapist had to work the sore muscles to release the tension), biting and kicking (the only things she never did).

It took 3 months of regular treatment under sedation to make it go away - she had serious trauma in a specific neck muscle caused by compensating for an old back injury. Therapist said it was the worst she ever seen.

She was still sent away for reschooling (someone different in the end as the person who recommended the therapist said her problems were too severe for her) for 4 months, and it's taken another 3 years to get her relatively 'normal' although she needsmphysio every 3 months to stop the spasms returning...

Sorry for the long post but I had to share as literially 15 or so people said she was fine and she wasn't, she was in so much pain.

If you are near Berkshire at all, let me know if you want this person's contact details. I absolutely cannot rate her enough. She's not only fantastic at what she does but a brilliant horsewoman too. She saved my mare's life...there wasn't anything else for us to try.

Good luck!
 
Meant to add - the reason she behaved better for periods was because she got used to the pain. Someone who has a constant back ache may not feel it continuously, but every time the pain got worse again, she behaved badly again.
 
xRomi&Darcy4Evax said:
No I have not tried this and is definitely an option I'm just worried she will not allow me to get on at all after she works out that after I take her out I school her.
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Give it a go - when you come back from a hack, just go in the school and walk round a couple of times,then come out again - don't ask too much.

Although I do think that it sounds pain related to some extent :(
 
It sounds like she is in pain to me - and I don't say that often (I mean that it isn't my stock response to behavioural issues). If it isn't pain related, not wishing to be harsh, but I would have it shot before it seriously injures you or your mother, or someone else. But before accepting the final solution, obviously you want to rule out pain properly.

Do you hack more in summer when it's lighter and better weather and school more in winter when it's dark and horrible? That would explain the seasonal change.
 
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I would bet my life it is pain. I don't care what the vet said. My first thought is gastric ulcers as these are often worse in winter when the horse is not able to graze continuously. But I am 100% certain this is pain. Just a matter of finding where.
 
To add to my last post.

I have a horse who cannot be safely ridden in cold weather unless he is first warmed up under heat lamps for 20 minutes. They only cost £20 each off eBay and you can just plug them in like any other lamp.

It's clear that unless I do that, he is in pain. Using the lights, he is an angel - well, as close to an angel as a spirited 6 year old gets :)

He also gave me no problems hacking, only schooling.

I'm another who will eat my hat if your mare is not in pain.
 
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Wagtail said:
I would bet my life it is pain. I don't care what the vet said. My first thought is gastric ulcers as these are often worse in winter when the horse is not able to graze continuously. But I am 100% certain this is pain. Just a matter of finding where.
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We did consider that it could be ulcers but at the beginning of summer she suffered with sever colic and was rushed to the Royal Veterinary Collage where she had a full body check over inside and out, if she had ulcers wouldn't they have found them when they did this? But i am defiantly going to be looking further into weather she really is in a lot of pain
 
Wagtail said:
I would bet my life it is pain. I don't care what the vet said. My first thought is gastric ulcers as these are often worse in winter when the horse is not able to graze continuously. But I am 100% certain this is pain. Just a matter of finding where.
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This ^^^.

My mare became a real handful a few weeks back, grumpy and erratic.
It coincided with the grass being eaten down and she wasnt getting enough fibre. She lives out, so we increased the hay by double in the field,and she was alot better.

Have you tryed giving her a scoop of chaff, or a pick at a haynet half an hour before you ride her?. This will line her stomach, and the chewing of the hay/chaff will stimulate saliva production to buffer the acid in her stomach.

It does sound tummy related, so give this a try.
 
To me she's clearly telling you in every way she knows how. She's in pain. Weather it be kissing spine or ulcers. Only X-rays and scopes will show so your vet can't be sure untill they have properly investigated,

I wouldn't attempt getting on or even tacking up if she's that distressed with it. Deff get the vet back out
 
Agree that this sounds very much pain related. If this has been going on for three years, it could be that she has a very bad muscle spasm somewhere. Any cold weather, combined with muscle pain problems is a recipe for pain. Also, after 3 years, she will be developing these behaviours as learned behaviours as well, so even free of pain, she will possibly need extensive retraining to stop her exhibiting them.

I would honestly get a second opinion, get full and thorough tests done. X rays on her spine as I have known kissing spine horses like this before surgery.

Good luck and to be honest, I wouldn't be riding at all right now. I would also be very careful bout who handles her and how they handle her.

Be safe, be careful, be vigilant when around her and demand more extensive testing on her health.
 
I have to agree with all the posts on here saying it's pain related. There's a possibility that it could be any of the suggested pain related problems but I know that muscle spasms are quite often far worse in the colder months and there is generally an underlying problem as to why the muscles go into spasm. I am back & forth to the doctors and hospital for xray, MRI and blood tests to find the cause of my back problem.
Whatever the cause you need to get a vet out who understands the seriousness of your situation and is willing to do extensive investigations.
What area are you in ? as Im sure that you would have some great recommendations from the forum as to the best person to call in your area.
Good luck and I hope you get it sorted for you and your mare's sake.
 
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