What are my legal rights if I have been mis-sold a horse? *LONG STORY*

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amyrosee

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Verrrry long story, sorry!

I bought Paddy in September 09, took my then instructor with me at the time. I have had lots of youngsters/horses being bought back into work, etc before so went out with a decent amount of money (£3000) to get something safe that I could go out on a compete on straight away.) I had a funny feeling from the start but got on and was very nervous riding him. He wasn't naughty, and I certainly wasn't a nervous rider but I wish I'd trusted my instincts then- hindsight is a wonderful thing! I kept riding back to my instructor (she was stood at the side of the field) watching me, and she would keep sending me away. She didn't get on him either. On the way home from viewing him, she kept saying how amazing we'd be and that we'd be able to BSJA and BE in 2010 easily and that he'd take me so far. She also promised to help me. He was advertised 100% to box, shoe, clip, etc. and had so say competed alot of UA SJ.

So, on the advice of my 'instuctor' I went ahead and bought him (stupid I know but I am only 14, and although I have been riding and owning my own horses for atleast 11 years now, I have to 'rely' on someone and my dad isn't horsey!) A month or so later, I went to take him to a XC clinic. I couldn't even do it. Warming up, he was bucking and rearing, had me off a few times. My YO was accompanying me and he even did it with her. So we packed up and went home, in the lorry on the way home, he almost killed himself. No exaggeration. He reared straight up and got his legs stuck on the tack locker. Had it not been for the metal grill behind his head, we would have been taking home a dead horse. He had company in the lorry too, Ret, my YO's horse who remained totally unfazed by the whole incident!

Got home and immeadiately rung girl I bought him off. Explained my concerns and she brushed them totally aside, ''Oh that is so unlike Paddy, you just need to give it time.'' Okay, fair enough, but my confidence has been SERIOUSLY knocked. 'Instructor' then steps in and offers to take him at her yard for a month for free to do some intensive training and I agree. All goes well, still don't feel entirely safe on him but hey ho. At the end of the month she takes me to a small local show, he is cross tied in the lorry so unable to rear. Get there and he is mega hyped up but warm him up and everything is fab. Have to wait a while for my classes and he stands like a donkey watching the classes before mine, etc. About 20 mins before my class, I go to warm him up a bit more again and suddenly he starts bronking and napping towards lorry park. I don't like this so turn him where I want to go and ride him forwards. Paddy was having none of this and got me off. I lead him to the warm up arena and got on there (crying by this point as my arm was reeeally hurting). Bucked, reared, bronced, everything.. but 'instructor' was making me go over jumps, and at one point he bucked after landing from a jump and threw me back onto the jump (cue. more tears!) I could feel him ready to rear up again so quickly hopped off at which point 'instructor' comes marching over ''YOU HAVE JUST TAUGHT YOUR PONY TO DO THAT AND NOW HE KNOWS IT'LL SCARE YOU SO HE WILL DO IT AGAIN!'' She then gets on and he does it with her but she just about manages to stay on. Dad has seen all of this and doesn't want me to get back on and get hurt so we pack up and go home.. A few days later I went back to my original yard. She made a promise to my dad and I that she would be down most weekends to help us. Have I heard from her since? Nope!!

From then on it has been a downward spiral. He isn't very nice to handle on the ground, and although is okay at home most of the time, I am not keeping him all winter/spring and putting loads more work in to find he just repeats this behaviour at summer shows.

Have now gone back to girl we bought him off who is seriously dragging this out, chopping and changing her mind. I must have mug written over my forehead as she is now saying she is trying to gather up £1100 for him including all tack and rugs. We paid £2750 for him. She is now saying there is nowhere for him to go until february, and then the next day she can't have him back, and then she can, etc, etc. She is a total timewaster and compulsive liar. It amazes me how she could sell him on to a young girl when she must have been aware of his behaviour?

Dad has informed her that if she doesn't get her act together that he will be seeking advice from his solicitor.

Just wondering what my legal rights are with regards to being mis-sold a horse?

Cookies and glasses of wine for the over 18's if you got to the end of this.

xxxx
 
To be 100% honest, it doesnt sound as though you were missold your horse but your instructor pushed you into it dispite your concerns.

You need to get the advert of what was said about him, did you ask questions that were incorrectly answered. You dont say how old he is, if a young horse then this excitable behaviour is not unusual in a young horse.

If the seller was 100% honest with the questions you asked and how she answered, and you really cant cope, I would suggest very strongly to your instructor that she sells him on your behalf as she thought he was so wonderful, and get you money back, and then get rid of your instructor.
 
i dont have much to advise im afraid (never even owned a horse myself! :O ) but ((hugs)) that doesnt sound like much fun!

id be talking to a solicitor now, to find out where you stand with this. no point hanging around it seems obvious the seller is dragging it out not finding a solution. but as scally said, there may be nothing the seller is obliged to do, esp if it was a private sale?

are you a bhs member? their gold level includes access to legal advice. if you arnt already it mght be worth joining as they are specialists and used to this kind of problem i expect.

xxx
 
I am not a solicitor but I think a lot hinges on whether you bought from a private individual (which it sounds like) or a dealer. If the former, basically it is usually caveat emptor "buyer beware" although there was a recent case where a private seller was successfully taken to court for a horse that wouldn't hack out well with the new owner.
The second problem is that it is now 3/4 months later, the seller could well argue that the behaviour is caused by your riding/his enviroment/etc (I am not saying that it is although I assume that you had saddle/teeth/vet/physio checked).
How soon did you contact the seller again? Was it the month later when you had problems at the XC clinic? Does the seller have evidence ie results proving that the horse was out and about competing (and presumably travelling) before he was sold?
There is a lot to consider and for a horse of that amount, suing is likely to be comparably expensive. You could try a solicitors letter initially to see if this scares the seller but it is unlikely that you will get your full money back.
Horses do not always adapt well to another rider - was it another teenager that you bought from? It may well be that you ride it very differently or keep it in a very different routine?
If you are not getting on with it, that is unlikely to change and you may be better to cut your losses and maybe see if someone else will take it off your hands?
Good luck, not a nice position to be in.
 
I'm really sorry but it doesn't sound to me as though you were mis-sold him. You were nervous of him right from the start and he has got the measure of you and taken control. The only people who will gain from a legal case like this are the lawyers.

Your instructor is a complete liability and you should dump her immediately. To make you jump a horse in public which was behaving so badly was stupid. You need a trainer who understands that he must be behaving kindly and quietly BEFORE you do any jumping at a show. However many shows you have to go to and not compete, that's what you must do.

If the previous owner will not buy him back, then you really have two options - sell him as he is and take a big loss, or get yourself a decent trainer and try and work things through.

Good luck with this, it's not a happy position to be in but your instructor is very much at fault, don't blame yourself.
 
you have had the horse since sept 09? its now feb 2010! have you kept the horse in consecutive work? what are you feeding it? how much turnout? as a vendor i wouldnt be willing to take horse back at purchase price as you have had 5 months to wreck it and let it take the piss! (and you have screwed up somewhere!!!) did you have it vetted? sound? she isnt dragging it out....................... you have dragged it out for 5 months! so i guess she has 5 months to decide if she wants him back! they are live beasts who react to their environment and their handler! you didnt buy it from a multi national company! not tesco or M&S! if it doesnt suit or fit sell it!
 
Hi amyrosee. I'm very sorry to hear about the sad start to owning your new horse when it should be a more pleasant experience. I myself thought I bought a gorgeous warmblood in May 09 whom turned out to be a clinical and dangerous nightmare despite passing a 5 stage vetting. I am a very experienced 38yr old rider owning horses for 25yrs.

I am in the midst of a Trading Standards and Police investigation with the women (dealers) that sold my horse. There is an update to 'The Consumer Protection Act 1978' called 'The Consumer Protection from unfair tradings act 2008'. Not knowing where you purchased your horse (private/dealer?) the act basically states "if information was withheld at point of sale which would have changed your decision to purchase, you can take your seller to your local Trading Standards" who have the power to investigate. My case crosses dealers in several counties so there are many Trading Standards offices and police constabularies involved. The full details of this act can be found on www.england-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20081277_en_1

Seek a solicitors advice with your parents help. There is a fantastic equine solicitor called Caroline Bowler from Actons based in Nottingham (don't worry if you don't live near, she can still advise over the phone). Her contact is Tel: 0115 9 100 200 or email equine@actons.co.uk. Website is www.actons.co.uk/individual/equine/

Oh and it sounds like you need a more professional instructor!

Good luck and I hope you sort it all out. x
 
What did the advertisment for him say??. When people are advertising something to sell be it from a dealer or a private seller the item has to include everything in the ad ie if you say in a ad that a car has a cd player it has to be in the car and in working order, same with animals. So if the ad says will compete and good to clip travel etc the horse has to do that. You as a buyer you legally have 6 months to take up any complaints with the seller. Contact her by phone first if no joy write a letter and send it recorded delivery. She has 7 days to respond before you can take legal action state this in the letter. I would than go and see citizins advise and take it from there. It is much harder to get money back from private seller but it does and can happen. If the person was a dealer you can get on the phone to trading standereds and they will help you. I would tell her you are willing to take £2500 for him but no less.
Hope this makes sense its a bit late and im very tired but cant sleep lol x.
 
ofcourseyoucan this is a 14yr old you are talking to.Whils't what you are saying is correct please remember that amyrosee is still a minor and as such relied on getting the right advice from what sounds like a bad instructor.
I seriously doubt you would stand a chance if you take the vendor to court. I would agree that this horse has got the measure of you and knows he has the upper hand.Therefore the right thing to do would be to send him to a trainer who you can trust to get him working correctly and sell him on your behalf and who can help you find the right horse for your capabilites.
 
The caveat emptor 'buyer beware' is now 'seller beware' due to the 'The Consumer Protection from unfair tradings act 2008'.

If you are buying an item from a dealer (maybe in this instance?) or a shop and they mislead you by not informing you of the full facts (i.e. rears, bucks, has medical problems etc...) which would have 'changed' your decision to purchase, you should go to your local trading standards office for advice. Any GENUINE person would take the horse back (or is it just me that would!?).

Legal action is costly and lenghtly. To try to prove your were mis-sold you can take your seller to the small claims court for items under £5,000 but you could end up paying more money than the horse is worth in solicitors fees and it taking 12-18 months to settle.

Caroline Bowler from Actons will not charge you/your parents for a chat over the telephone and can indicate quickly if you have a good case.

For a a very quick fix I would agree with spike123 if the seller won't refund you, get him to a reputable trainer to sell on your behalf.
 
yes a genuine sellar would/will take a horse back(reasonable terms would be 7 to 14 days max!) but sept 09 to feb 10 is a bit of a gap for a living being with its own mind! 5 months can and will scrabble a decent horses brain! if the horse was bought as capable as a competition horse then it will need progressive training, a constructive living environment, enough work and appropriate feed. the instructor has a bit to answer for and have the parents who paid for it, and the said 14 year old who didnt confess at the time she was not sure it was the right one!!(ALL not the vendors fault)
 
'The Consumer Protection from unfair tradings act 2008' states:

The Time limit for prosecution
14.—(1) No proceedings for an offence under these Regulations shall be commenced after—

(a) the end of the period of THREE years beginning with the date of the commission of the offence, or .
(b) the end of the period of ONE year beginning with the date of discovery of the offence by the prosecutor, .
whichever is earlier.
 
What a sad tale ...AR an adult should really take responsibility for this transaction for you, even though you've been riding for a number of years you still need a bit of help. Sadly if this was a private sale after 4 months I wouldn't hold out much hope (or expect it for that matter). Good luck. Sxxx
 
Hun, I would echo everything that cptrayes has said. It is wise counsel and I urge you to think it through. Be wary of people who have responded (trying to help) by saying oh that's dreadful, see a solicitor etc etc. When you buy a living animal, trying to prove it was sold to you as a lunatic rather than something has happened since you have had it that has made it a lunatic, is virtually impossible. Equally, be wary of those who (also trying to help I guess) have laid into you and said it's all your fault, because it isn't. You are an experienced but young lady and it sounds as if you have bought a talented but strong minded horse that has subsequently responded to the different way you ride him. You say in your post that you were "very nervous riding him" but you go on to say you weren't a nervous rider. As an experienced rider, if you look into your heart you know the horse will have picked up on the differences in the way you rode him. Almost certainly he is now part taking over because he doesn't think you're in charge and probably part worried by a rider that he can't trust. It is also true that you need to dump your so-called instructor immediately. She is dangerous. It seems to me that you have lost all trust in this horse - only you can answer if you think you could recover it but if it was me I wouldn't bother with a solicitor - all you'll get is heartache and a huge bill. I'd stand tall, realise you need to sell him, learn from the experience and then move on to find the absolute RIGHT horse who IS out there somewhere waiting patiently for you to find him. Don't give up hope hun - you sound a very mature young lady and you CAN get beyond this. And just think what a stunning chapter it will make when you write your memoirs lol xxxxx
 
Sorry but I would tell you where to go. You've had it way to long, and TBH you can ruin a horse in a week of bad riding, let alone a few months! You were nervous of him when you bought him, chances are he's not stupid and figured you out. Your instuctor also sounds like a prized prat but I do agree with her on riding through naughty behaviour, as often its the only way to sort them out. I think your best bet would be to put the horse in a professional yard on sales livery and get them to sort it and sell it and make sure they are clear to whatever pot. purchasers come along about your problems with it. However, if this horse is that naughty, you will probably end up spending more than the horse is worth in sales livery costs.
 
Hello, sorry to hear, but I too do not think you have any legal leg to stand on. By the sounds of it you were nervous to begin with and let your instructor talk you into buying the horse. It sounds like the horse is behaving badly because of your nervous riding. This could happen with any horse and I do not think you have been conned.

The seller sounds genuine to me, any genuine owner would want to buy back her horse in this situation. However you cannot expect your full money back after this long, and if it is not from a dealer (with some dealers you can get a warranty for so long). i can imagine after this long the seller has spent some of the money/bought a new horse etc and doesn't have room at livery for the horse back until February or something.

Best bet is to just take the £1100 for him, or send him off to sales livery where they can work on him. But I do not think you will succeed in any type of legal action.
 
I think some of you are being a bit hard on the OP. Yes, it's probably too late now to send it back although the previous owner hasn't refused to have it back. I also agree that some horses can behave completely differently when they move. Sometimes things don't come to light straight away, ie within 2 months, depending on what one does with the horse. How many times do we here on this forum that to give it time & allow the horse to settle?

If the horse behaves in this way it obviously 'has it in him' to do that. If the rider is nervous, then yes, it may take the mickey more, but I don't think it's fair to blame the OP for the way the horse is behaving. How old is he out of interest? Can you trace any previous owners & find out what he was like with them?
 
To be honest, the horse sounds typically irish to me. (Sorry to those with Irish horses)

The fact is, you have had him 5 months. As people have said, if there was a problem in the first month thats one thing, but not five months along.

You need to answer the following...

How much are you feeding him?

How much are you riding him?

How much turn out is he getting?

If he was mine, I would be giving him ONLY hay, turnout 24/7, and riding him hard daily (as in, minimal walk, lots of trotting, transitions, cantering, pushing him forward and getting him thinking, also knowing you are in charge. My friend, who breaks in racehorses, is of the opinion if they are going forward they can do eff all. It works!! ) If you have a walker, I woud be putting him on there at a fast pace for an hour or so a day. As he gets fitter, you can up his feet a bit, but you will be surprised how well they do on ad lib hay and minimal feed.

The fact he was at your instructors yard for a month, clearly in hard work, and was OK and then wasnt, tells me it isnt actually the horse, more of a rider issue.
 
This is a lot for you to deal with, you need to hand it over to your dad I think. Is your horse insured? Do you have BHS Gold membership? Your dad needs to see if he can get some help and advice through insurance, sometimes even a household insurance policy can be useful I understand.
I agree with the others, if it's a private seller this is going to be difficult. You are also going to need a lot of proof that the seller misled you. Alternatively, is there a reputable trainer (not your idiot "instructor) who would assess your horse for re-training and selling on?
 
Sorry yes forgot about how long it can take some horses to settle in etc, but it sounds like he was fine when your instructor took him in to work on him, so I do think it sounds liek a rider issue. Also yes take into account feed, turnout etc. Could something be wrong with him to cause him to bronc etc. Have you had the vet out?
 
p.s. at your age, and with your confidence horribly knocked, I don't think you should attempt any re-training yourself. It's OK to read advice on a discussion group and go away and try to apply it, but really I think you need input and help from someone who can actually visit and see what is going on first-hand. You could have been badly hurt in the incidents described in your first post.
I do think you'll have trouble with the court action, but with the right help this horse might be fine, and able to be safely sold on.
 
I do feel for you but sounds like the horse needs hard work in a yard environment.
I hope you can find a solution but original owner will have long spent the cash five months ago.
Big hugs and don't despair. Have you had the vet out etc?
 
I do feel for you OP but sadly I don't think you have a leg to stand on sending him back - I think you will be extremely lucky if she takes him back and should count your blessings!

If she does not then i suggest you get a decent instructor to sell it for you and you've learnt something from this - trust your instincts!

We went through similar when my sister was 14 - I'd had a 4yo and we went down the same route with her and got an irish TB, lovely sweet horse. To cut a long story short though he was pretty much like yours - rodeo'd to start with and over time developed a very good established rearing technique! In hindsight we should have got rid after the first episode but maybe due to my sister's stubborness or the not wanting to be beaten feelings we battled on for 5 years. 5 years of tears, being thrown off, no starting a course, getting eliminated at 3rd fences. It wasn't fun.

Luckily he was a nice horse to handle and we sold him (although wrongly to woman who wasn't as experienced as she made out!) but he was sold on and we think ended up in a decent home doing something that suited him (hunting) as there was no pressure on him.

Prior to this I had also bought a 14.2hh pony who I didn't click with at all - just didn't take to him but he showed ability and, on the advice of my instructor at the time we bought him. Never should have done. What i learnt form this was to trust my instinct when trying horses - don't let others talk you round not matter how 'experienced' they are or how talented the horse may seem. If you're not comfortable with it - walk away!

Hopefully you will be lucky on this occasion if the horse is taken back. It does not sound a suitable horse for a 14 year old.
 
I think you have had your fingers badly burnt pet
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I would suggest it is too late and too 'wooley' to secure a SUCCESSFUL case against the seller and you would waste more time and even money in doing so.

Take my advice and sell this horse to a dealer asap for whatever you can get for him and put it down to experience.

Your Dad may well be cross but I bet he would prefer to lose £2,700 rather than his teenage daughter.

And please don't ride the horse anymore as this situation really is an accident waiting to happen
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If i was the owner of the horse, NO i would not take them back! Not unless it was for a lower sum, to sort out the damamge done.

It sounds like you where over horsed, overestimated your abilty, and was lead astray by your instructor.
 
I dont know whether you were mis-sold the horse or not, bearing in mind I have no idea what the advert said OR what questions you asked.

However, I do think your instructor has alot to answer for. You took her for her professional advice and on the basis of that and being 14 years old, (SHE) mis-led you into buying this horse.

So, the way I see it, your instructor needs to properly help you a) sell the horse on OR b)help you retrain your horse/teach you to ride in a way that makes you compatible.

OR Ditch the instructor, get a decent one and then take it from there

**Please remember all those who are having a go about the OP buying an unsuitable horse, not being as good a rider as she thought etc etc, please remember the OP is a 14-year old impressionable girl who sought the advice of her instructor!*
 
[ QUOTE ]

Take my advice and sell this horse to a dealer asap for whatever you can get for him and put it down to experience.

Your Dad may well be cross but I bet he would prefer to lose £2,700 rather than his teenage daughter.

And please don't ride the horse anymore as this situation really is an accident waiting to happen
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[/ QUOTE ]

this is excellent advice. please look after yourself! and find an instructor you trust.
i'm sure you can ask on here for some recommendations.

good luck!xxx
 
[ QUOTE ]
you have had the horse since sept 09? its now feb 2010! have you kept the horse in consecutive work? what are you feeding it? how much turnout? as a vendor i wouldnt be willing to take horse back at purchase price as you have had 5 months to wreck it and let it take the piss! (and you have screwed up somewhere!!!) did you have it vetted? sound? she isnt dragging it out....................... you have dragged it out for 5 months! so i guess she has 5 months to decide if she wants him back! they are live beasts who react to their environment and their handler! you didnt buy it from a multi national company! not tesco or M&S! if it doesnt suit or fit sell it!

[/ QUOTE ]

no need for the snotty tone. i have not 'wrecked' this pony, thankyou. nor have i dragged it out, when i originally contacted her after the XC clinic she said just to give it time and to let him settle in which i did. I have trying to constantly find answers and ways to work with him and i have tried very very hard with him. I need to get something different before i lose the tiny shred of confidence i have left. Paddy was in extremely hard work, lots of hacking too. It was all varied as didn't want to give him an excuse, however, like I said before- he seems alright at home generally. he is turned out every day in a very big field every day with company from 6.30am to 4pm. also, if you had read it properly, i mentioned we are trying to settle it at £1,100 which is hardly purchase price, is it!? it is not all my fault, please don't tell me at 14 you were totally independant when it came to horses?

i have a copy of advert, it clearly states '100% TO BOX, SHOE, CLIP, SHOE' .. it also mentions he has been succesfully doing indoor UA showjumping. my then instructor did all the asking of questions whilst i was riding, but now wants nothing to do with it at all.

thanks to those who left kind and helpful advice, he is currently on no feed, just hay .. he has had back, teeth, etc checked. saddle readjusted slightly. i have traced all previous owners who have mentioned how he did have a history of rearing, etc even as a youngster. he is now about 10/11.

i am now having lessons with the best instructor ever (she also happens to be my best friends mum!), she is so nice and just around the corner so can come to me or i can go to her yard. she is a qualified instructor and has competed at HOYS but she can see how nervous he makes me, which she said is quite unusual as with all my previous ponies, i've been really confident and would get on anything. She has advised me to cut my losses now so that is what im trying to do.

Thanks again, any other questions/ideas welcomed.

xxx
 
[ QUOTE ]
'The Consumer Protection from unfair tradings act 2008' states:

The Time limit for prosecution
14.—(1) No proceedings for an offence under these Regulations shall be commenced after—

(a) the end of the period of THREE years beginning with the date of the commission of the offence, or .
(b) the end of the period of ONE year beginning with the date of discovery of the offence by the prosecutor, .
whichever is earlier.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is a private sale and consumer protection legislation does not apply.

Of courseyou can your post was foul. A 14 year old was asking for help. Can't you keep your nastiness to yourself?
 
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