What are we missing in the equine industry?

[SecDChest]

Hi All,

Interesting topic that came up over dinner last night.
I’d love to hear your opinions and views on exactly what we are missing in the equine industry?
Whether it be a product or a specialist or a library of more information?
What do you think we’re missing? Think of your everyday lives and let me know what you’re short of, if anything?!
Turned into a very interesting discussion!

Happy Sunday 😁

 

[Flicker]

Livery yards that operate to the same principles of customer service that other businesses do.
Trainers who are good teachers, rather than just knowledgeable horsemen and women. Who understand that pupils learn in different ways, have different abilities and may need things explained or demonstrated in a different format.
Information on horse care and safety for non-horsey parents who have bought their child a first horse or pony. Too often the animal suffers because the parent doesn’t know what they’re doing. I had to stop one dad the other morning who was turning his daughter’s pony out in a fleece. In the rain. He was wearing a fleece himself, so I guess he thought it was the same, lol. And I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to gently point out to a Mum who has got a lead rein wound several times round her hand, that if ponio does one she’s going to go with him.

 

[Theocat]

Professionalism, especially in services for leisure / amateur riders. People who run businesses ought to be capable of returning calls, delivering services agreed, communicating, treating customers fairly and equally, not gossiping about customers ... if some livery yards, and even farriers (who ought to have a better idea of business practice) tried to operate in any other sector, they'd go straight out of business!

It would benefit everyone to have a more professional sector - both businesses and customers.

NOT all equestrian businesses are like this - but a startling proportion are, even just going by the threads on here. But then, a lot of owners don't appear to understand they're engaged in a business transaction either (or, perhaps, don't want to pay fairly for it ...)

 

[Rowreach]

Common sense.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I agree with the professionalism comment.


I'd like to throw in amateur owners who don't whinge at the price for professional services and who pay up in a timely manner. I'd also like to see owners willing to pay more for livery to allow for staff being able to stay in the profession past the age of 18 so you don't get the blind leading the blind. I'd like them to see that they have a luxury hobby/item and its not for the rest of the world to subsidise that.

Personally I feel we have enough products as many fall into the ridiculous/unnecessary bracket and there's more than enough information available for all, if only people would go and look for it.

 

[be positive]

Common sense.

Absolutely but that goes for people in general.

Following on from the other 2 posts, the information on care etc is out there but if people don't use common sense they will not find it or think it doesn't apply to them.

Many yards are run extremely well with a professional approach but if every yard ran on true business terms charging a realistic rate many people would be unable to pay and would give up their horses, where else can you have B&B, a field to use, facilities that include arenas, walkers, heated tack rooms, professional staff on call 24/7 etc for less than £50 per week, if the yards all charged what it is really costing/ worth livery prices would rise dramatically.

 

[Flicker]

I also think livery yards should invest more in their staff. Salaries may not be able to rise that much, but you can engage and develop staff in other ways. Skills and training, for example: leadership, management and customer care training, first aid, even putting them through an HGV licence. How many yards do appraisals or 1:1’s? Performance management on my yard is zero - the staff get moaned at by the liveries and YM if they’ve done something wrong, but that’s about it.
Yards need dedicated, sensible staff who stay. When it’s chucking down with rain and a member of my yard’s team is turning out a temperamental horse, I don’t want him or her to be thinking ‘I could be working in a nice, warm call centre for the same money’.
Offering a bit of development and showing an interest in what motivates them is a quick, easy and in most cases free, way to do this.

 

[Theocat]

Many yards are run extremely well with a professional approach but if every yard ran on true business terms charging a realistic rate many people would be unable to pay and would give up their horses, where else can you have B&B, a field to use, facilities that include arenas, walkers, heated tack rooms, professional staff on call 24/7 etc for less than £50 per week, if the yards all charged what it is really costing/ worth livery prices would rise dramatically.

Agree this would happen, but I can't really understand why "some people might have to give up their luxury hobby" is any reason to expect livery yard owners to run on the tiniest margins on the business that earns them their living. It would be less of an issue if people seemed happy with it, but YOs don't seem happy, and nor, often, are the liveries paying bargain rates and moaning about what they get in return!

 

[Templebar]

I think most of the stuff posted we already have but people just don't use it or moan about the cost of it. Good things are not cheap.

I would like to see passports that are actually worth the paper they are written on with microchipping and a decent agency for it all to go through.

 

[Flicker]

Theocat you are right. Horses are an elite pastime for a reason - they are bluddy expensive to keep properly. Yards need to be more realistic about what they can offer for the price.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

OK so first on my wish-list: IMO - and as one who's recently gone through the horse-search-and-buying experience: there needs to be a LOT more transparency concerning the buying and selling of horses; possibly backed up by enforceable legislation. We've all been to viewings - driven several hours even (I know I have) where if only someone had been honest and up-front it would have saved a journey, and more importantly, possibly saved a novice buying something unsuitable and/or dangerous even.

Secondly, the responsibility for prosecuting neglect/mistreatment of equines needs to be put into the hands of people that SPECIFICALLY understand equines, and that is NOT the RSPCA; there needs to a legislative shift so that the BHS and other equine rescue agencies have the FULL support of the law to act if an issue is reported to them.

Thirdly, ditto other's sentiments re. passports. The whole thing is nowt but a farce and the system is wide open to abuse, which is happening.

Re. licensing of small yards (like mine!). I live on-site and have only the room for one DIY livery. She's been here a good while now: she's happy, I'm happy. I'm as sure as I can be that I'm offering not just good value for money but also doing what is required re. safety/security/maintenance etc. I make ends meet and have a little bit over in my pocket, but not a lot TBH. But I do it because I enjoy doing it and every little helps as they say. But if I had to be "licensed" and all the red tape and expense and mallarky to do with that, my very small profit margin would be gone; the only way I'd exist would be to put up my charge to a ridiculous - and unsustainable - amount. So while I'm hearing what people are saying, as a YO I would have to stop offering livery services if everyone got their way! OR I'd have to levy a huge charge to merely just stay afloat (and then people would moan!). So what I'm saying is think twice, nay think thrice, and consider what you're wishing for with this one............

 

[turnbuckle]

Happy to help with your product development at my usual rates

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Happy to help with your product development at my usual rates

 

[SecDChest]

Some really interesting replies.
The way liveries are run were the hot topics and there were some very different views on them from a YO’s point of view as well as a horse owner who keeps horses at home, and also a general day to day horse loaner who pays for a weekly full livery service.
Will law enforcements ever come in the same as “normal businesses”?
For such a big industry I think rules could definitely be tightened, and simple law contracts could be put into play.
Keep them coming

 

[ycbm]

there needs to a legislative shift so that the BHS and other equine rescue agencies have the FULL support of the law to act if an issue is reported to them.

The BHS and other charities have exactly the same powers to investigate and prosecute as the RSPCA, and so do you and I.

 

[Cortez]

Professionalism, definitely. One of the main reasons I am no longer involved in the mainstream equine industry is that people on this side of the world are not prepared to pay what it would take to do things properly. And personally I would like to see prices rise to achieve this, which would undoubtedly result in large numbers of livery yards closing down and people not able to keep horses. It might also mean that riding schools could be resurrected and be run to a high enough standard that people would actually be able to ride properly!

 

[SEL]

I think the provision of x acres of land per horse for yards (the rule of thumb of 1 acre is definitely ignored around here) & yes, prices would have to go up.

Something to control the breeding of horses. Making the passport system stronger with a centralised database may be the way forward - although it'll probably just increase the cost for legitimate breeders.

I believe in some of the Scandinavian countries horses must have access to shelter and companions. It would be nice to see something similar in our welfare act which I think it is a bit weak.

 

[s4sugar]

Licencing for livery yards and dealers.

 

[cobgoblin]

Licencing for livery yards and dealers.

Not sure about the licensing of livery yards tbh. Some of the best are small privately run places that could never afford to run with added costs. Who's going to police it year in year out? The result would be increased prices and another horse crisis as owners are priced out of the market or the number of livery spaces is drastically reduced.

Dealers are already bound by consumer law.. Again who is going to keep a constant eye on them?

Passports need to be sorted out and tied into microchip registration.

 

[HeyMich]

I really think there should be some kind of pension scheme or financial bond put in place for horses that have retired from the track or eventing and have made their owners rich - so often you see ex-racers etc sold for £500 and saved from the meat man, yet they have made their owners £100k plus. I think it's atrocious. Surely a horse that had trained/worked that hard can expect a gentle, certain retirement with all their basic needs met, and not become some of the many welfare cases we see. Even if they put, say 1% of their total winnings aside, that may be enough to keep them away from the meat man or the rescue centres. Not sure if it would work in practice, but that's what I think!

 

[Frumpoon]

Regulation regulation regulation

 

[Theocat]

I really think there should be some kind of pension scheme or financial bond put in place for horses that have retired from the track or eventing and have made their owners rich - so often you see ex-racers etc sold for £500 and saved from the meat man, yet they have made their owners £100k plus. I think it's atrocious. Surely a horse that had trained/worked that hard can expect a gentle, certain retirement with all their basic needs met, and not become some of the many welfare cases we see. Even if they put, say 1% of their total winnings aside, that may be enough to keep them away from the meat man or the rescue centres. Not sure if it would work in practice, but that's what I think!

Unfortunately I think the economics would be against you. Even if you budget £200pcm (very, very cheap for retirement livery, care, etc etc), a horse that's potentially going to last another twenty years is going to clock up £48,000 in bills. And I'm not sure we have anywhere to put them all ...

Retrain the best, but I'm afraid a humane death is probably a better realistic option for many of them than being passed on cheap to "10* loving home" with someone who's buying an OTTB because their primary factor in choosing a horse is that it's cheap

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I really think there should be some kind of pension scheme or financial bond put in place for horses that have retired from the track or eventing and have made their owners rich - so often you see ex-racers etc sold for £500 and saved from the meat man, yet they have made their owners £100k plus. I think it's atrocious. Surely a horse that had trained/worked that hard can expect a gentle, certain retirement with all their basic needs met, and not become some of the many welfare cases we see. Even if they put, say 1% of their total winnings aside, that may be enough to keep them away from the meat man or the rescue centres. Not sure if it would work in practice, but that's what I think!

There is actually! A section of the money paid to Wetherbys for ownership registration etc goes to the ROR. Darley have their own rehoming centres. I know of a few trainers who sell their horses for nominal fees as a donation to the Ror which means that their difficult horses get into the removing centres more easily. Some yards reschool and rehome themselves.

At the end of the day an ex-racehorse is just another horse who can be someone's best friend. They can also end up in a meat man's wagon just the same as Jane's wee pony or the horse from next door.

I'd far rather see more regulation on people over breeding ponies and breeding utter crap that is of no use to no man! And btw racehorse breeding is controlled to an extent

Plus the majority of good horses go to stud. Others retire to their owners farm (McManus keeps all of his good ones at Martinstown). Some the jockeys keep - Graham Lee has 2, Richard Johnson has 2 that I know of as well. A surprising numbers of stable lads take their charges home (I have had 3 from the yard myself and one from another yard! )

It's not a bad thing to be a racehorse. The same fate could happen to any horse.

 

[be positive]

Unfortunately I think the economics would be against you. Even if you budget £200pcm (very, very cheap for retirement livery, care, etc etc), a horse that's potentially going to last another twenty years is going to clock up £48,000 in bills. And I'm not sure we have anywhere to put them all ...

Retrain the best, but I'm afraid a humane death is probably a better realistic option for many of them than being passed on cheap to "10* loving home" with someone who's buying an OTTB because their primary factor in choosing a horse is that it's cheap

This, the majority of racehorses earn very little prizemoney and even the top horses will rarely cover their initial cost and training fees in prizemoney, 1% of the winnings would be a drop in the ocean and there would still be nothing to stop an owner selling the horse on to an uncertain future while it can still work or race, responsible owners and trainers will do right by their horses whether that is to retire, rehome or pts the irresponsible ones don't care, much the same in the non racing world where horses frequently get passed on when it is no longer of use.

 

[Landcruiser]

Bridleways, a proper network, with priority given to maintenance. And lots of schemes where riders could pay an appropriate annual subscription to landowners in order to ride on private land (to link between bridleways perhaps, or use private off road tracks). There is (was?) such a scheme, but nothing near me.

 

[cold_feet]

Bridleways, a proper network, with priority given to maintenance. And lots of schemes where riders could pay an appropriate annual subscription to landowners in order to ride on private land (to link between bridleways perhaps, or use private off road tracks). There is (was?) such a scheme, but nothing near me.

This. It’s getting harder and harder to ride out safely and with enjoyment.

 

[EventingMum]

Proper legislation in place for paraprofessionals eg EDTs, chiropractors etc.
Monitoring or regulation for livery yards.
Improved legislation to protect horses before they actually become welfare cases.

 

[photo_jo]

Common sense.

You nailed it there!

 

[joosie]

Better wages for grooms - and more respect for our employment rights in general. I'm jobseeking currently and getting somewhat despondent with the amount of employers who don't even offer minimum wage, and don't seem to either know or care that that is actually illegal! Despite 12 years in the industry and numerous references from jobs in 5 different countries I still found myself being told that I'm "expecting too much" when I refused to consider a job that pays the equivalent of £4 an hour! And god forbid you should ask for an employment contract....!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Better wages for grooms - and more respect for our employment rights in general. I'm jobseeking currently and getting somewhat despondent with the amount of employers who don't even offer minimum wage, and don't seem to either know or care that that is actually illegal! Despite 12 years in the industry and numerous references from jobs in 5 different countries I still found myself being told that I'm "expecting too much" when I refused to consider a job that pays the equivalent of £4 an hour! And god forbid you should ask for an employment contract....!

Come over to the bright side! Racing is very well regulated! Studs are crying out for staff just now - whether you have foaling experience or not is irrelevant so long as you can deal with horses in general! Also many yards love people either on the ground or up on a horse.