What are you opinions on calmers

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nervous nelly

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I was wondering what people's oppinion are on these tubes of calmers that imo are being more widely used, is it unfair on other competitors that have worked through their problem/ difficult horses or are do you think they are a good "invention" ?
 
Doesn't really matter does it? If they are FEI legal then they can be used. If they are not - they can't. One of the things that really struck me about a recent doping case was the amount of calmer products top riders use. Competition legal calmers will not replace good schooling / riding etc. But they are a part of the toolbox for the sharp and sensitive.

Mind you at lower levels they are probably also a profitable way of separating the gullible from their money. No calmer will make your horse go brilliantly without the groundwork. Don't worry about it.
 
If you have to dope something to ride it, I wouldn't ride it. If you have to dope something to win or be competitive, I wouldn't compete it. However, I do not believe that calmers really work and that most of the perceived effect is placebo (on the rider).
 
Shay said:
Doesn't really matter does it? If they are FEI legal then they can be used. If they are not - they can't. One of the things that really struck me about a recent doping case was the amount of calmer products top riders use. Competition legal calmers will not replace good schooling / riding etc. But they are a part of the toolbox for the sharp and sensitive.

Mind you at lower levels they are probably also a profitable way of separating the gullible from their money. No calmer will make your horse go brilliantly without the groundwork. Don't worry about it.
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You are under the illusion that any calmer is FEI legal none are !!!!! they are all expressly forbidden to used in competition .
However most top riders use them and just disregard that rule. So for example in the recent case the riders to clear themselves of a larger problem had to admit to breaking the rules. The repercussions will go on as some are saying that action should have been taken after that admission
 
popsdosh said:
You are under the illusion that any calmer is FEI legal none are !!!!! they are all expressly forbidden to used in competition .
However most top riders use them and just disregard that rule. So for example in the recent case the riders to clear themselves of a larger problem had to admit to breaking the rules. The repercussions will go on as some are saying that action should have been taken after that admission
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??? I bet Jock Padgett doped his horse up on purpose to win Burghley last year didnt he...

And as for "unfair", why would it be "unfair" on other competitors? That's like saying is it "unfair" to other competitiors if I dont feed my horse on competition mix, he's only on pony nuts...
 
I personally dont agree with using calmers - there should be many other avenues you investigate if your horse is really that sharp it would require something like a calmer, and even when you have ruled out every other issue and investigated every possible source of the problem I'd perhaps think about whether the horse is mentally cut out for competition; not every horse has to be a competition horse and I think we sometimes forget that. Some mentally cannot cope with the stress of travel, followed by a busy environment, new place, lots of horses in the warm up...etc. If they are sharp, stressed or spooky at all competitions and require a calmer, I'd say that horse doesnt enjoy competing and I would not be forcing it to do something it didnt enjoy.

But that's just me - with my stupid, spooky, sharp....downright crazy at times WB x Appy (who belongs to my friend but I ride for her) I've never thought about using a calmer, it would probably help but it would be masking the problem not solving it. He is sharp and spooky because he lost trust with humans, and because he has had (and still has) some pain/health issues which we are working on. Would I want to mask that with an expensive supplement? Hell no. I'd rather fall off and know he's in pain, than carry on with my own ambitions and ignore whatever pain he might be in.

So for me it is all about schooling, schooling, health checks, building trust.....that is my 'calmer'. And it is working, it is definitely the slower route as we have been going well over a year with him and it definitely got worse before it got better. But slowly but surely we are getting results, he is always going to be a bit sharp and perhaps may never have the mental capacity to cope with competitions but I'd rather have a happy healthy horse who does what he enjoys and is not forced into something he doesnt want to do because there is a supplement masking over the behaviour.

I'm sure there are some instances where using calmers are beneficial, and perhaps in the hands of the very top riders where their horses are checked frequently for health problems and have the very best vetinary care, phyios etc then it might be different - it wont be masking over pain (hopefully) because these horses have access to the best care and the riders would recognise even the smallest of niggles because they are more experienced than your average horse owner who only rides a few times a week, not 7 or 8 horses daily. But for the vast majority I think you need to be looking at many other avenues before a calmer is even considered.
 
I don't know that have an opinion but I was thinking about - just been at the dressage champs at cricklands with my (thankfully very calm) horse but lets just say lot of people seemed to be using calmers and one or two horses looked like they might have had something stronger - I too was wondering if I thought it was 'unfair' but I don't know that its always training alone some horses are just more reactive by nature. TBH I feel more that you should get higher marks if don't need a whip, spurs and a flash to achieve a decent test
 
kc100 said:
I personally dont agree with using calmers - there should be many other avenues you investigate if your horse is really that sharp it would require something like a calmer, and even when you have ruled out every other issue and investigated every possible source of the problem I'd perhaps think about whether the horse is mentally cut out for competition; not every horse has to be a competition horse and I think we sometimes forget that. Some mentally cannot cope with the stress of travel, followed by a busy environment, new place, lots of horses in the warm up...etc. If they are sharp, stressed or spooky at all competitions and require a calmer, I'd say that horse doesnt enjoy competing and I would not be forcing it to do something it didnt enjoy.

But that's just me - with my stupid, spooky, sharp....downright crazy at times WB x Appy (who belongs to my friend but I ride for her) I've never thought about using a calmer, it would probably help but it would be masking the problem not solving it. He is sharp and spooky because he lost trust with humans, and because he has had (and still has) some pain/health issues which we are working on. Would I want to mask that with an expensive supplement? Hell no. I'd rather fall off and know he's in pain, than carry on with my own ambitions and ignore whatever pain he might be in.

So for me it is all about schooling, schooling, health checks, building trust.....that is my 'calmer'. And it is working, it is definitely the slower route as we have been going well over a year with him and it definitely got worse before it got better. But slowly but surely we are getting results, he is always going to be a bit sharp and perhaps may never have the mental capacity to cope with competitions but I'd rather have a happy healthy horse who does what he enjoys and is not forced into something he doesnt want to do because there is a supplement masking over the behaviour.

I'm sure there are some instances where using calmers are beneficial, and perhaps in the hands of the very top riders where their horses are checked frequently for health problems and have the very best vetinary care, phyios etc then it might be different - it wont be masking over pain (hopefully) because these horses have access to the best care and the riders would recognise even the smallest of niggles because they are more experienced than your average horse owner who only rides a few times a week, not 7 or 8 horses daily. But for the vast majority I think you need to be looking at many other avenues before a calmer is even considered.
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Why are you riding and schooling a horse that is in pain?
 
Actually any herbal supplement that effects the horses performance is banned, it just may be they can't test for it: This is relevant paragraph:

The use of any herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquillizing) or an energizing (stimulant) manner is expressly forbidden by the FEI regulations. The use of a calming product during competition may also have important safety consequences.

The page can be found here http://www.fei.org/fei/cleansport/ad-h/prohibited-list

Basically if it works is banned, so you can only users calmers that don't work, this is why the companies producing then don't want to do any actual tests or clinical trials.
So basically if you use a calmer YOU ARE CHEATING, it just can't be proved
 
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Shay said:
Sorry Popsdosh - you are wrong. Quite a number of calmers are FEI legal. Whether they work or not might be a different matter. The only commonly used calmer substance that isn't competition legal is Valerian. You can find the FEI database of banned substances here http://prohibitedsubstancesdatabase.feicleansport.org/index.php
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Actually Sorry Shay you are totally wrong so before you shout your mouth off check the facts! The FEI ban any product that can alter a horses going whether on the list or not. It is a catch all reg that is broken by you administering said product. Please read it more carefully in future before telling people they are wrong!!!
This paragraph is the relevant one and is extracted from here
http://www.fei.org/fei/cleansport/ad-h/prohibited-list

The use of any herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquillizing) or an energizing (stimulant) manner is expressly forbidden by the FEI regulations. The use of a calming product during competition may also have important safety consequences.
 
I'm with Burtie, I was under the impression that anything that changes behavior is banned!! So although some substances aren't expressly banned or cannot be tested for, using anything with the INTENT of modifying behavior isn't allowed.

I also don't think calmers work! :p If they had anything substantial to them you'd have to buy them from the vet :p
 
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dieseldog said:
Why are you riding and schooling a horse that is in pain?
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Sounds strange I know - but vets advice. He has bad Grade 2 ulcers, vet wants to keep working the horse so we can monitor improvements in behaviour (previously very spooky and sharp for no real reason), with 8 weeks between each scope we need to know if the gastroguard and antibiotics are working. Thankfully he is improving all the time and spooking is getting less and less, showing that the pain is reducing quickly.

I'm sure a lot of people are riding horses with ulcers without knowing, or riding horses that are in pain and the horses are simply too kind to tell us (i.e. throw you off/spook) that they are in pain. Yes I know the horse I am riding is in pain, but the riding is monitoring how quickly the pain is reducing and thankfully it is getting a lot better. If he were still displaying signs of pain from the ulcers after 12 weeks (where we are now) then it might be a different matter and he would have been rested to give him more time to heal, but that is not the case and we have a much happier horse on our hands than we did 3 months ago.
 
There is a difference between doping/tranquilising a horse and giving a product marketed as a "calmer" which actually doesn't really perform the doping function. If you look at most of the calmers they are mainly composed of magnesium - magnesium does not as such have a calming effect, it only does so if the horse is deficient in the first place, so really you are providing a feed supplement to balance the horse's diet, not doping. Other things contained in calmers include pro/prebiotics and clays which are supporting the digestive system, B vitamins and amino acids. I don't think it is as simple as saying a calmer is doping a horse, with the majority of these products they only work if they provide the horse something in which he is lacking. It is not the same as administering valerian or domosedan which has a direct sedating effect.
 
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