What are your most hated pieces of equipment?

Mozlar- I agree it usually takes time, this mare took literally a few weeks to realise her head was free again. In her favour though fool I got her from had her a year & rode seldom, mare was early teens & from what we patched together of her past, plus the fact she had pretty good lateral work, despite not having done anything constructive meant it was just a case of pony clocking on to the fact life was back to how it had been in the past. Poor horse of yours, just goes to prove much damage badly used stuff can do. I'm struggling to think of any scenario where jumping a youngster in draw reins could ever be necessary.
 
Lots of things I hate when it comes to training horses .. I will admit not read whole thread so guess its all been covered.

My personal hate on my yard at the moment.. my new rake from B&Q blooming thing is constantly falling over and also seeing people use a white plastic chair to mount..DANGEROUS. the builders kindly burnt my mounting block I made mad much!! I was in a hurry grabbed the nearest thing I could mount from, white plastic chair managed to get wound up in it and ruptured my acl - lig in the knee!

Heard other nasty stories about mounting from white plastic chairs..should have listened and learnt!! :(
 
The peice of equipment I hate the most is the 'flash' noseband.

The reason for this is fairly simple. Leaving aside the muppets who use one because it came with the bridle, the horse opening its mouth or putting his tongue out, is normally the first sign of a problem, the horse is trying to make his feelings known.

Once the dentist and the sadlle fitter and everyone else has had a poke about and decided that there is no physical reason for this behaviour, the problem is simply solved by strapping the horses mouth firmly shut.

My view is that the problem in the majority of cases is a lack of confidence in the rider by the horse. The rider, or trainer has failed to properly prepair the horse, and will never have a proper relationship with that horse from the day they decide to strap his mouth shut. The rest of the crap that follows, which it will, like side reins, martingales and harsh bits, all stem from the fact that the horse is unconfident in the rider and majority of subseqent riders of the same ilk.
 
Pale Rider said:
The peice of equipment I hate the most is the 'flash' noseband.

The reason for this is fairly simple. Leaving aside the muppets who use one because it came with the bridle, the horse opening its mouth or putting his tongue out, is normally the first sign of a problem, the horse is trying to make his feelings known.

Once the dentist and the sadlle fitter and everyone else has had a poke about and decided that there is no physical reason for this behaviour, the problem is simply solved by strapping the horses mouth firmly shut.

My view is that the problem in the majority of cases is a lack of confidence in the rider by the horse. The rider, or trainer has failed to properly prepair the horse, and will never have a proper relationship with that horse from the day they decide to strap his mouth shut. The rest of the crap that follows, which it will, like side reins, martingales and harsh bits, all stem from the fact that the horse is unconfident in the rider and majority of subseqent riders of the same ilk.
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I'm sorry but I really don't agree with this!! My horse that I had years ago didn't need a flash/grackle etc or a martingale to jump so we didn't put one on. But my current horse does need a grackle and does need a martingale to jump! It would be a lovely world if all horses could be ridden in headcollars (or stuff that- nothing because we're in tune with them!) But horses are not machines, I could school mine all day long and he is as calm as anything. But he enjoys his jumping and those things are needed when the jumps go up. Infact, I jumped him at home the other day without his martingale (because I forgot it) and I definitely do need it!

If you look at just about every event horse at this years Olympics, I bet they will be be wearing strong bits/martingales etc. I'm not one to tell William fp what to do. These are not far off a tonne of horse and sometimes a little human needs a helping hand! This is not always though lack of training and is just because the horse is not a machine!! We can not programme them to have no personality and train every ounce of horse out for every second that we ride them!!
 
welshstar said:
I'm sorry but I really don't agree with this!! My horse that I had years ago didn't need a flash/grackle etc or a martingale to jump so we didn't put one on. But my current horse does need a grackle and does need a martingale to jump! It would be a lovely world if all horses could be ridden in headcollars (or stuff that- nothing because we're in tune with them!) But horses are not machines, I could school mine all day long and he is as calm as anything. But he enjoys his jumping and those things are needed when the jumps go up. Infact, I jumped him at home the other day without his martingale (because I forgot it) and I definitely do need it!

If you look at just about every event horse at this years Olympics, I bet they will be be wearing strong bits/martingales etc. I'm not one to tell William fp what to do. These are not far off a tonne of horse and sometimes a little human needs a helping hand! This is not always though lack of training and is just because the horse is not a machine!! We can not programme them to have no personality and train every ounce of horse out for every second that we ride them!!
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I'm not suprised that you don't agree with me. A sad indictment on these top horse events that they have horses not very well prepared for the event. Willam fp is good at riding horses and that all, he'd be even better if his horses were trained properly. I agree horses are not machines, which is why mechanical devices are a cheat and poor substitute for proper training. As for training the personality out of a horse, absolute rubbish.
 
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Pale Rider said:
I'm not suprised that you don't agree with me. A sad indictment on these top horse events that they have horses not very well prepared for the event. Willam fp is good at riding horses and that all, he'd be even better if his horses were trained properly. I agree horses are not machines, which is why mechanical devices are a cheat and poor substitute for proper training. As for training the personality out of a horse, absolute rubbish.
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Maybe you should get in touch with him and offer to help him train his horses properly. I'm sure he'd be delighted.
 
I'm the first to agree that the majority of the time, gadgets are misused, but it doesn't mean they always are. Mines a forwards & lively 14.2 who is well trained & responsive enough my 7yr old can canter her in a large field in a snaffle, & on one occasion bareback in a headcollar in a smaller area & still got a rather nice downwards transition. But I've still needed a dutch gag with two reins to do any serious jumping & a double bridle to hunt. I'm sure if I can make that decision for the right reasons, others can too, let alone top riders. It's when they're used for the wrong reasons or in the wrong hands its a problem.
 
littlelegs said:
Auslander- lol.
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Ironic, that of all the riders to pick on, PR should choose William. His horses used to go in snaffles, cavessons and neckstraps when I worked for him, no matter how strong/naughty/mad they were. I used to dream of extra brakes whilst being pissed off with by super fit, exuberant event horses.
 
littlelegs said:
I'm the first to agree that the majority of the time, gadgets are misused, but it doesn't mean they always are. Mines a forwards & lively 14.2 who is well trained & responsive enough my 7yr old can canter her in a large field in a snaffle, & on one occasion bareback in a headcollar in a smaller area & still got a rather nice downwards transition. But I've still needed a dutch gag with two reins to do any serious jumping & a double bridle to hunt. I'm sure if I can make that decision for the right reasons, others can too, let alone top riders. It's when they're used for the wrong reasons or in the wrong hands its a problem.
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Well trained and responsive enough, 'really?'

Whether or not Fox-Pitt wants his horses training properly is really a matter for him. Somehow I doubt it, he seems happy enough with what he's got.

The real problem is that people who follow the 'celebrity'
riders who are much acclaimed for all the wrong reasons at the end of the day. One only has to look at the disgraceful treatment of horses by Anky van Grunsven to see what these people are capable of. I see Matthias Alexander Rath is subject of some critism now with Tortilas.

It really is a crying shame to see talented riders having to resort to such poor techniques and battle with their horses and cause pain and discomfort.

Yet the audiences are still there clapping and cheering like some medieval crowd at a public flogging.

I didn't bring WFP into this someone else did.
 
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I hate anything that ties a horse's head down or puts them in a false 'outline'
I also hate flash, grackle or drop nosebands, if the horse is opening their mouth there is a reason they are doing it - sort out the problem don't just try and cover it up!

I also hate hobbles - I can't believe some trainers still use them!
 
Pale Rider said:
I'm not suprised that you don't agree with me. A sad indictment on these top horse events that they have horses not very well prepared for the event. Willam fp is good at riding horses and that all, he'd be even better if his horses were trained properly.
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Pale Rider said:
Whether or not Fox-Pitt wants his horses training properly is really a matter for him. Somehow I doubt it, he seems happy enough with what he's got.


I see Matthias Alexander Rath is subject of some critism now with Tortilas.
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His name is Totilas.

It is better to remain silent and be thought of a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. I like that quote :)

And to stop you getting another warning from Fatty for using personal insults I'll do it myself - rhino you are a prize knob head. That do? :D :D :D
 
Pale rider- okie doke, not going to get all defensive about my mare, I (& anyone else that's met or rode her) are more than happy with how responsive & well trained she is, not everyone can compete top level in just a headcollar & leadrope as I'm sure from your posts on this thread you must be doing.
 
Yes because WFP's horses arnt trained, the fact that he has just won kentucky obviously means his horses couldnt possibly be happy in their tack :rolleyes: If only we were all so perfect.

Back on topic. Theres a few bits of equipment I'm not a fan of but the most hated one is bad hands, they can make any piece of eqiupment harsh.
 
Pale Rider said:
Well trained and responsive enough, 'really?'

Whether or not Fox-Pitt wants his horses training properly is really a matter for him. Somehow I doubt it, he seems happy enough with what he's got.

The real problem is that people who follow the 'celebrity'
riders who are much acclaimed for all the wrong reasons at the end of the day. One only has to look at the disgraceful treatment of horses by Anky van Grunsven to see what these people are capable of. I see Matthias Alexander Rath is subject of some critism now with Tortilas.

It really is a crying shame to see talented riders having to resort to such poor techniques and battle with their horses and cause pain and discomfort.

Yet the audiences are still there clapping and cheering like some medieval crowd at a public flogging.

I didn't bring WFP into this someone else did.
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I would be interested to hear how you think people like William have managed to achieve sustained competitive success at the highest levels with horses that in your opinion, are poorly trained. I put it to you that William is happy with what he has, because his horses are supreme athletes, at the top of their game. Horses that are in pain, badly prepared and poorly ridden do NOT get to this level. I find it incredibly arrogant of you to suggest that your way is superior to some of the greatest partnerships on the planet.

Actually - what is your way? You're very quick to judge everybody else, but we hear little about your own achievements. How would you fare if you were asked to pop round an international 3DE? It's a genuine question...
 
littlelegs said:
Pale rider- okie doke, not going to get all defensive about my mare, I (& anyone else that's met or rode her) are more than happy with how responsive & well trained she is, not everyone can compete top level in just a headcollar & leadrope as I'm sure from your posts on this thread you must be doing.
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I must admit to feeling more than a tad irritated by the initial post by PR, do you know any top riders or their training methods? I usually find it best to comment on the things I have direct knowledge of personally. littlelegs, sounds like you have a well trained horse there if your daughter can ride in a head collar at all! Actually some horses do just develop habits, whether through cheeky evasion or due to previous poor backing, a drop noseband fitted correctly and not too tight is perfectly appropriate and acceptable in those circumstances.
 
rhino said:
His name is Totilas.

It is better to remain silent and be thought of a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. I like that quote :)

And to stop you getting another warning from Fatty for using personal insults I'll do it myself - rhino you are a prize knob head. That do? :D :D :D
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Not very thick skinned for a Rhino.

I prefer my quote.
 
Have to say I'm not mad keen about those 5 point breast plate thingys, whats wrong with the normal breast girths or the hunting breast plates? But anyway...
Those saddle cloths/numnah things, that aren't the shape of a saddle nor are they square... is that fashion? Looks daft!!
Have never got my head around those passoa gadgets either.
Riding any horse in any tack that is not necessary gets me, but I'm not the rider so if it is fitted correctly, I bite my tongue! If it is ill fitting, then I have been known to speak up!!
Seeing kids riding horses is also a pet hate...


But, on a more serious annoying note, the bloody feed bags... getting into them is like some sort of mission impossible? The string thing bit never works, so you slide your fingers under the flap bit - after turning the sack of feed over obviously, and that rarely works, and certainly not neatly! I've almost given up and use a knife, that is fine until some other kind sole has walked off with the knife!?! And tubs of suppliments, irratating plastic lid things that snap off - or hurt your hand/fingers when trying to open the darn thing every time!
Maybe i'm odd, or the only one who struggles, but I look at a new sack of feed and go 'oh no'!! :confused::confused:
 
Mozlar- thankyou, she is indeed a sweetheart who due to her size has no margin for error & out hunting has a personality transplant & thinks she's the masters horse. Perhaps if (which is highly unlikely) I get to top rider level I will feel qualified to comment on their training. Although some people may be foolish enough to think having the same tack as a 'name' makes them as good, I'd imagine most people are like myself & aspire to the riding ability instead.
 
Auslander said:
Actually - what is your way? You're very quick to judge everybody else, but we hear little about your own achievements. How would you fare if you were asked to pop round an international 3DE? It's a genuine question...
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Fairly sure he's a Parelli-er from previous 'conversations' :cool:
 
Lol what a thread,:D:D and we wonder why yards are a hot bed of busy bodies, gossipping and bitching about what others do and dont do with their horses.
Personally i'll put on tack i think is suitable for the horse and its way of going, and shock horror :eek::eek: what suits one might not suit the other.
And i might need to use more than a snaffle :eek: and shock horror a martingale as well :eek::eek::D:D.
 
Pale Rider said:
I'm not suprised that you don't agree with me. A sad indictment on these top horse events that they have horses not very well prepared for the event. Willam fp is good at riding horses and that all, he'd be even better if his horses were trained properly. I agree horses are not machines, which is why mechanical devices are a cheat and poor substitute for proper training. As for training the personality out of a horse, absolute rubbish.
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Where did I say that you train personality out of a horse? All I was implying was, despite however much training I could put in, a horse is still a horse with a brain. It will still think and act independently no matter how much training you put in. Yes, as we train them they become more and more on our wavelength but surely you can accept that some horses have a dominant personality just like people?

And thank you for saying you are surprised that I don't agree. I take it you know me, my horses and how successful as a partnership we are? I didn't think so.

It really bugs me with this superior complex that some people seem to have. I accept that some people choose to put whatever tack they want on the horse- mostly the horses don't seem bothered. On the whole, I don't have a hated piece of equipment- just a hated usage or people using them with ignorance.
 
millreef said:
I bet that he's really William Fox-Pit pretending not to like himself so we all defend his riding - I wouldn't be surprised on this forum judging by some of the past episodes we've had:p
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I doubt it. It's probably a matter of supreme indifference to him whether HHO think he's any good!
 
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