What Are Your Opinions On Flash Nosebands?

Ibblebibble said:
I don't have a strong opinion on most tack, but i am of the opinion that unless someone has ridden my horse in various situations who are they to judge what tack she wears and how effective it is;)
A very similar discussion on FB only yesterday about 'inappropriate tack and bits' how can anyone judge what is inappropriate for any horse unless they have ridden it?!

i tried my big girl in a bitless, she hated it.
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I have to say I agree with the above. I have no beef with whatever kind of tack anyone uses for their horses so long as they use it responsibly. My horses are all ridden in snaffles with either cavesson nosebands or no nosebands. I own flashes and martingales and almost every other piece of tack (just like everyone else does) but I rarely use any of them. I have one horses who is ridden in a running martingale because she's the only one who needs one. If however one of mine went better being ridden in a grackle, flash, crank or a stronger bit or martingales etc then that's what I'd ride it in.
 
Using a flash because that's what it was wearing when I bought him/her, just highlights the problem. Tack should be re evaluated regularly as a normal part of training. Nothing stays the same for ever.

Using a flash because it came with the bridle, is a strange one. The flash is not sewn to the bridle, it slips out. If the keeper looks unsightly, pay a fiver and get the saddler to whip it off. You don't have to use it.

I'm not surprised that so many people need flashes to keep their horse's mouth shut. Looking around most UK livery yards, people who can actually ride without hanging onto the reins like a Woodentop are a rarity.
 
AprilBlue said:
if you really need to use a flash, can't you just use a bitless brdle instead?
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My horse has always fought to open his mouth and everyone at the yard tells me to put the flash on really tight.
I've finally listened to him and ordered my bitless bridle yesterday! So excited as I've been interested for a while now but been deterred by friends who are all about harsh bits!
Riding in a headcollar tomorrow as he is really good with nose pressure from the ground :D
 
horserider said:
I'm not surprised that so many people need flashes to keep their horse's mouth shut. Looking around most UK livery yards, people who can actually ride without hanging onto the reins like a Woodentop are a rarity.
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LOL :D!! ...Not sure what a Woodentop is but this does sound like a nice sweeping generalisation!!!- Maybe people not on livery yards ride better then ;) ?
 
I think that flashes etc have a place, but as others have said - you really need to know what action the noseband has and then decide what it appropriate...

I was really surprised when I went to a dressage lesson with a fairly high-level judge and trainer, and I had to explain why I was using a drop rather than a flash...her response was to say that she'd never used one and they were likely out of fashion for a reason...then crank it up a few holes! The majority of the others on my yard don't get the drop, and most of them ride in flashes...

My lad needed something to start with as his mouth was flapping in the breeze and his tongue was everywhere despite many dental checks and types of bit, so the consensus was that he just needed to learn that he wasn't going to be hauled on and keep his mouth shut! We've gone from needing a firmly fitted drop or flash at all times, to no noseband at all for schooling, and either a cavesson or loose drop for hacking and jumping, depending on how fast we're expecting to go... All in the same bits :)
 
avthechav said:
LOL :D!! ...Not sure what a Woodentop is but this does sound like a nice sweeping generalisation!!!- Maybe people not on livery yards ride better then ;) ?
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Sadly, I don't think it is a sweeping generalisation. The standard of riding in the UK is pretty dire. Whenever I see a decent rider, I always look twice because its so good to see.
 
Gosh, how nice it would be to be a perfect rider on a perfect horse with no schooling issues!

Some horses have schooling issues that can be helped by different bits or nose bands, obviously none of these horses belong to people on here as you all ride in a perfect world!
 
I used to use one with spot, he was so strong and would get the bit between his teeth. He was ridden in a Pelham.
I don't with Leo, he isn't strong and is ridden in a snaffle.
I don't mind flashes, however looking at some of the pictures from the eventing at the Olympics, nearly all the horses had flashes and it wasn't a pretty sight.....
 
Shoot me now, i have my 5yr old in a flash!
Why? Because he is a cranky, lazy git who will evade the bit by opening his gob as wide as possible or try and put his tongue over the bit.
it is correctly fitted, does not clamp his gob shut and he is working well in it. As soon as he is ready, it will come off again but for now its not causing him any harm.
 
I have no problem with flashes but like all tack they are only as good/useful as the person using it. BUT I was told to put a flash on my youngster as he opened his mouth when being ridden, he hadn't been broken long & was well behaved otherwise, I (luckily) ignored this person. My horse had his routine dental a little while later, with his mouth clamped open it became apparent the site of his wolf teeth extraction (before he was backed) had not healed correctly & had formed proud flesh, he was opening his mouth to avoid the contact. I felt terrible as he was incredibly honest being only 4yo and competing at shows etc I thought he was just a mouthy youngster.
Had I clamped his mouth shut the outcome may not have been so great.
ALWAYS check for a reason FIRST.
 
IMO if it works and the horse is comfortable then there's no problem. I hunt my Appy in a flash so that I have brakes as he likes to try and cross his jaw and open his mouth which makes him stronger. With the help of a flash I can happily carry on hunting him in a snaffle too without having to resort to a harsher bit.
 
horserider said:
Sadly, I don't think it is a sweeping generalisation. The standard of riding in the UK is pretty dire. Whenever I see a decent rider, I always look twice because its so good to see.
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...seriously!! I must be lucky around here then, whenever I go out, even at my lowly level I see an occasional jockey with poor skills, a larger number of riders like myself who dont hinder but could be a lot more effective, and I always see several who are lovely to watch and really enjoy watching these people- maybe my standards/ expectations are too low or yours are to high?:)
 
I don't think anyone is claiming to be perfect, its just drops or even grakles can do the same as a flash, without any of the disadvantages. And horserider has a point. There seems to be ever increasing numbers of riders who's first thought is 'how can I stop my horse being naughty' rather than 'what am I doing that either causes or exacerbates my horses behavior' followed by 'what can I do to rectify the situation training wise'. Maybe years ago people were just as bad, but with less gadgets easily available they were the last resort, not the first.
 
Flashes are excellent for strapping a horse's mouth closed onto an unsuitable or poorly used bit.

They are one of the few bits of tack I almost always try to remove when riding other people's horses.

I'm not an excellent, or even particularly good, rider but I'd rather go more cautiously than force a horse into something painful / doing something I'm not a competent enough rider to ask and school for correctly.
 
Theocat said:
but as others have said the design of a flash is rubbish - you need the cavesson part far too tight to keep it in place. Use a drop or a grackle, depending on the horse, if you need to use anything!
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mrhsaddler said:
The Flash noseband is a hybrid of the drop and cavesson nosebands, it was invented solely for the purpose of being able to use a standing martingale with a drop noseband, as very few horses now use a standing martingale there is no need for a flash noseband, and a drop should be used intead if thats what the horse needs.
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The_angel_littlelegs said:
I don't think anyone is claiming to be perfect, its just drops or even grakles can do the same as a flash, without any of the disadvantages.
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My thoughts exactly, it seems people just use an inferior product that is less comfortable because it is more readily available and that is what they see everyone else using. Easiest option maybe :confused: Don't flashes inhibit breathing much more than say a drop or grackle?
 
Wy are people quick to strap the head down rather than work on the "engine" department... We're most riding problems stem from?
 
charlie76 said:
Gosh, how nice it would be to be a perfect rider on a perfect horse with no schooling issues!

Some horses have schooling issues that can be helped by different bits or nose bands, obviously none of these horses belong to people on here as you all ride in a perfect world!
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The question is more, how do you resolve schooling issues ? There are two basic approaches to training problems. One is to look at the reason a horse responds as it does and the other is to mask the problem and tell the horse to shut up and stop complaining.

Neither requires perfection, but the first approach needs thought, patience and observation.
 
I suspect the majority are used because they came with the bride, but why do bridles more often come with rather than without a flash? Probably created by demand at some time in the past. No doubt a few horses need one. I never use nose bands of any kind, with the exception of on the bitless bridle (which would not work without one!).
I did use a drop noseband for a time on a problem mare, who had been badly trained, but only for a month and she now wears no noseband.

My opinion? Take it off and throw it away, along with most others except the cavesson if wanted for pure looks.
 
charlie76 said:
Gosh, how nice it would be to be a perfect rider on a perfect horse with no schooling issues!

Some horses have schooling issues that can be helped by different bits or nose bands, obviously none of these horses belong to people on here as you all ride in a perfect world!
Click to expand...

If I was a perfect rider I'd be happy using most gadgets. The reason I steer clear of the majority is that I'm not a perfect rider ;)
 
charlie76 said:
Gosh, how nice it would be to be a perfect rider on a perfect horse with no schooling issues!

Some horses have schooling issues that can be helped by different bits or nose bands, obviously none of these horses belong to people on here as you all ride in a perfect world!
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not a perfect rider, don't think I know one, but, I don't make the horse suffer because of the shortcomings I have.
 
I do understand how schooling can fix the majority of issues, but what would you do with my horse, who is perfect 99% of the time and only has an issue if he is out and his bloods up, and he's doing pairs with another horse?

He is very bold, brave and loves to be in front. Putting a flash on him going round a course keeps us both controlled and safer. It allows me to keep him in gentle snaffle as he doesn't need a stronger bit. It's not done up too tight, and he only feels it when he goes to cross his jaw.

There is no way i can school him out of getting excited at a team chase. I don't believe it's possible. He is a brave horse who absolutely loves it and his blood gets up with the excitement of shows. He is a gent and can be ridden bitless the rest of the time. I would put my life saving on ANY rider not being able to solve this problem through schooling
 
Flash nosebands are as harsh as any noseband.... it all depends on how tight you fasten it. Flash nosebands are handy for young horses, who will want to avoid contact with the bit. A flash noseband can restrict it and help it accept the bit. Offcourse you don't tighten it so that the horse can;t even breathe anymore... I use the 2 finger rule.

And nosebands are there for a reason.... if a horse falls, the rider automaticlly pulls on the mouth, you can't avoid it. Therefore, horse opens mouth.... now if there wasn't a noseband, the horse would have it's mouth wide open and there is then a possibility of breaking it's jaw. The noseband stops that from happening (offcourse the horse would have to falls face down first for this to happen).
 
Paddi22, I would use a drop. While the flash might not be tight, the cavesson will be or it will just be pulled down. And if really necessary a grackle. At least with either of those you don't have the issue of the tight fitting cavesson. And drops in particular allow the horse to open their mouth in the normal way, but not to the point of evasion.
 
It sounds bizarre but the drop didn't work well on him. I'm not sure what he tries to do with his mouth (thinking now i should video it) but he goes much better in flash then drop. I understand the action of them drop, but for him it wasn't as effective as flash for some bizarre reason
 
Drops don't really prevent jaw crossing, just mouth opening too much, which might be why it didn't work. Have you tried a grackle?
 
as I've said one of ours has a flash the other doesn't......

however its fitted correctly it doesn't pull his noseband down and it isn't tightened so he can't breath or open his mouth at all. he is in a neue schule baucher bit....

how can you generalize and it its because we can't ride or he isn't schooled properly other his bit is wrong? he is checked every 6 months by a dentist and his back and skeleton and muscles by a mictomeny specialist his tack is checked and fitted too him.....

just coz you don't like them doesn't mean they are wrong ....

the Olympic team aren't numpties and can ride to a high standard

fair enough have your own opinions but please dont generalise

I can see your point when they arent fitted properly but thats the same with baddly fitting saddles and bits and other tack.....
 
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No, never tried a grackle. I have never used one before, was unsure of fitting it correctly and have noone to double check i have it right, so i steered clear! I always had assumed (probably incorrectly) they were harsher than a flash?
 
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