what biasses have you experienced showing appaloosas????

[LazyS]

There are now classes for 'Foreign breeds' or 'world breeds' that open up doors for our beloved appaloosas. I show a stallion who is not dazzling-ly marked like your beautiful ones but he is a stallion because he has great conformation and moves beautifully and has won championships in coloured classes as well as specific appaloosa classes (he is registered and licensed with both BApS and the ApHC UK). After winning a 'foreign breeds' class I heard a woman (jealously) say "I don't even think he is an appaloosa!" (my friend, at the time, had to hold me back!). He has 93% appaloosa bloodlines - which is more American appaloosa bloodline than many apps in the UK today - but anyway.....
When there were more local shows in our area and I was showing him as a youngster (getting used to sites and sounds of the outside world) I took great delight in showing him 'western' - I like to be different. He is American after all and if people didn't know what breed he was at least they would know from my 'attire' and his American 'halter' that he was American! I loved to see the expression on the face of the bowler-hatted judges.
Dare to be different!
Regarding showing in coloured classes - last summer I decided to take my red-dun quarter horse gelding to a fairly local show - the judge hated him and was very relieved to place him second in the 'world breeds including arabs and anglo-arabs' out of two! (He did qualify for the Royal London Show!). Then I did the coloured class with him (bearing in mind the schedule said piebald, skewbald, palomino, spotted and DUN) I was 7th out of 8. I had to say to the steward to please tell the judge (same judge) he was a red dun. Then the girl next to me said 'why was I showing a chestnut in a coloured class!!!!!!!??????' He behaved impeccably and did all that I asked of him so never mind eh - chalk it up to experience.
Yorkshire Dumpling, maybe we have had this conversation, but you say the sire of your chap was not licensed with BApS, was he licensed with the ApHC UK or at all?

 

[freckles22uk]

i cant enter BAPS classes apparently, or so i was told when i got her passport, as the stallion that was used was registered with them but not a licensed stallion with them, so she can only be placed on an annex register, so although she is a pure bred with years and years of history, because he is not licensed she is bumped down to an annex register apparently this mean i can not enter her in appaloosa classes with the BAPS was very annoyed when they told me that. and also because she is on it, if she has a foal in the future, that will automatically go on the annex register too

i still love her to pieces and would never swap her for the world but it is alittle disappointing especially after what i paid for her because of her breeding ect

Ive got the same problem..

I have a mare who is on the 'part bred' Baps register as the stallion was not licenced... had he of been then she would of been a Grade 'B' and like yours her pedigree goes back years...

And her son Moonshine I can also only register as partbred too... though his sire was licensed... (how are you supposed to move up the grades??)

And a filly ive bred.... with APHC shes 80% foundation bred, but Baps will only register her partbred... the sire is the horse above...

You can show yours at the Baps shows, just only in the part bred classes, we did that with the mare before we came over here to Spain..

 

[MissSBird]

Trying to look at it from the perspective of judges here, so please don't jump on me for it. I've nothing personal against spotties.

A coloured horse, by definition, is that is a mix of white patches and solid colour. A spotted horse doesn't actually fit this definition.

When judging a class, the judge is looking for the best horse of that type. So placings should reflect not just conformation and behaviour, but the correctness of the horse to the ideal type promoted by that class.

So if you have a judge who sticks to the rules completely, they are actually well within their rights to place a well behaved spotted horse lower because it is not, officially, a coloured. It's not judges that make rules, it's the societies that do. Competant judges are expected to be well versed in them. For coloured classes the rules are provided by CHAPS, who very clearly state that they do not accept spotties/appys as coloureds.

Personally at local level I think spotties should be welcome in coloured classes and wouldn't place them down, but I can see why some judges would show what appears to be bias against them. The harsh reality is that by the rules of the sport they are within their rights to do so unless the show secretary has stipulated to include spotties. They are technically as incorrect as bay in a coloured class.

Just to illustrate an example of a similar concept. There is a welsh B in my area which has lovely confo and is very true to type apart from one thing; it is a coloured. Even though it is often the best in the class it very frequently gets put down because it should not be coloured by its breed standard, and m&m classes are to find the best true to type example of a mountain and moorland pony. It is not a bias against the colour of the pony, it is simply that it is incorrect for the class.

 

[jessamess]

Like others have already stated most local/RC shows will accept appy's in coloured classes, but they are technically not Coloured and cannot compete in county show classes for coloureds for example!!!

There much be an appy society with specialist shows

I love a good spotted!!! especially blanket spotted!!! My aunty has recently bought one, and she is very nice confo wise although I embarrassingly did find my self thinking ''Oooo what a nice hack she would make if she was only bay'' :S (shoot me now)

I am currently going through a judges course (arab) and I have had classes infront on a wide range of horses (and colours, teaching us to look past colours and breed) and I have to say it is very distracting trying to look a spotty's confo clearly especially next to a cleanly marked horse (bay for instance) sometimes you also find (unreg ones especially) that people have bred for colour and not for good confo (not brushing all with the same brush here!!!) which is the same with black arabs, you get alot of very good ones (and they are very expensive) but you also get alot of bad ones where it is clearly obvious they have been bred to be black only!!!

xxx

 

[finnywinny]

I have a blanket spot Knabstrupper mare and last year we did really well in coloured classes at local level.

BUT for each show I double checked what it said in the schedule and if anything was less than crystal clear with regard to spotty eligibility in a coloured class then I would ring the show secretary to ask.

Above local level I'm sure it gets more stringent as other posters have suggested but local is a fabulous fun place to spend the coming summer season and if showing gets tricky in the future then many spotties have many other talents too, other than just being good at being spotty.... X

 

[Yorkshire dumpling]

There are now classes for 'Foreign breeds' or 'world breeds' that open up doors for our beloved appaloosas. I show a stallion who is not dazzling-ly marked like your beautiful ones but he is a stallion because he has great conformation and moves beautifully and has won championships in coloured classes as well as specific appaloosa classes (he is registered and licensed with both BApS and the ApHC UK). After winning a 'foreign breeds' class I heard a woman (jealously) say "I don't even think he is an appaloosa!" (my friend, at the time, had to hold me back!). He has 93% appaloosa bloodlines - which is more American appaloosa bloodline than many apps in the UK today - but anyway.....
When there were more local shows in our area and I was showing him as a youngster (getting used to sites and sounds of the outside world) I took great delight in showing him 'western' - I like to be different. He is American after all and if people didn't know what breed he was at least they would know from my 'attire' and his American 'halter' that he was American! I loved to see the expression on the face of the bowler-hatted judges.
Dare to be different!
Regarding showing in coloured classes - last summer I decided to take my red-dun quarter horse gelding to a fairly local show - the judge hated him and was very relieved to place him second in the 'world breeds including arabs and anglo-arabs' out of two! (He did qualify for the Royal London Show!). Then I did the coloured class with him (bearing in mind the schedule said piebald, skewbald, palomino, spotted and DUN) I was 7th out of 8. I had to say to the steward to please tell the judge (same judge) he was a red dun. Then the girl next to me said 'why was I showing a chestnut in a coloured class!!!!!!!??????' He behaved impeccably and did all that I asked of him so never mind eh - chalk it up to experience.
Yorkshire Dumpling, maybe we have had this conversation, but you say the sire of your chap was not licensed with BApS, was he licensed with the ApHC UK or at all?

yes had it before, . he is Zhensuk Chieftain. which i know for a fact he is licensed
my other appy (new one)
not passported so had to do it myself and i have had all sorts of problems with it. the stallion is reg but not licensed, have checked with ApHC UK too and is not registered at all with them. very p***ed off! she isnt as well marked as my other filly but is still very very pretty...

 

[pip6]

Can I ask about what colour mine is? She has two large belly patches (one either side), flesh marks on her lower lip, roaning over his rump & over the past 6 months has been developing spots about the size of a thumb print. This is in addition to her white face & 4 long socks, not to mention hundreds of spots around her navel merging into another white patch. Thing is, she's a pure bred arab. I sent a photo to Chaps, before she started to develop spots & they said she was sabiano. What would be the response if we were to enter a coloured class? Also, how would we show as according to her breed she is ment to be unplaited, would this be accepted as she is very definately not a vanner type & there is no way I would pull her lovely flaxen mane.

 

[Yorkshire dumpling]

Can I ask about what colour mine is? She has two large belly patches (one either side), flesh marks on her lower lip, roaning over his rump & over the past 6 months has been developing spots about the size of a thumb print. This is in addition to her white face & 4 long socks, not to mention hundreds of spots around her navel merging into another white patch. Thing is, she's a pure bred arab. I sent a photo to Chaps, before she started to develop spots & they said she was sabiano. What would be the response if we were to enter a coloured class? Also, how would we show as according to her breed she is ment to be unplaited, would this be accepted as she is very definately not a vanner type & there is no way I would pull her lovely flaxen mane.

i think a piccy is needed of her to be able to tell but she sounds like sabiano but had to tell? xx

 

[Yorkshire dumpling]

Ive got the same problem..

I have a mare who is on the 'part bred' Baps register as the stallion was not licenced... had he of been then she would of been a Grade 'B' and like yours her pedigree goes back years...

And her son Moonshine I can also only register as partbred too... though his sire was licensed... (how are you supposed to move up the grades??)

And a filly ive bred.... with APHC shes 80% foundation bred, but Baps will only register her partbred... the sire is the horse above...

You can show yours at the Baps shows, just only in the part bred classes, we did that with the mare before we came over here to Spain..

i know, it really gutted me about mine, not because of the fact she cant go higher than part bred class. it is the fact that on the papers when you fill out a passport it says " horses with 2 main register parents will go onto the main register" and horses with just 1 parent and or grand parent will go on annex" it says nothing about licensing and that really annoyed me. i downloaded the forms before i bought her just to make sure about the rules. so i assumed (my mistake ) that she would be put on main as both are registered on the main register! ggggggggggrrrrr i think that is wrong, they should clearly say " 2 main parents and stallion must be licensed for horse to also be on main reg". otherwise it is a bit miss leading.

 

[pip6]

This is her aged 6 weeks, the patch the other side is bigger. Don't have a recent photo showing her spots, but they are like 20p coin size over her back, sides & rump. Even got on on the back of one her her ears! Chaps offered to overstamp her AHS passport, but I declined as I was worried it may cause registration issues for any of her progeny in the future. Arabs, after all, aren't meant to be coloured.

 

[Yorkshire dumpling]

This is her aged 6 weeks, the patch the other side is bigger. Don't have a recent photo showing her spots, but they are like 20p coin size over her back, sides & rump. Even got on on the back of one her her ears!

hard to tell from that but it does sound like sabiano found a few google images that might help you decide x

 

[RunToEarth]

I've done quite a lot of showing with my coloured horse, and can say in my experience appys have not gone down well with the judge.
I would try to stick to appy classes, as the judges who judge these classes obviously have an interest in appys.

 

[Sessle]

Check the schedule and see if it says appys are eligible, if they are then you will be fine to enter, most of the small local shows near me allow any kind of unusual colour in them, appies,duns, palomino, cremello as well as piebald/skewbald!
As to whether you do well depends entirely upon the judge, appaloosa and knabstruppers are quite different in their markings to most other breeds of horse, and are a bit like marmite with judges, they either love them or hate them!

 

[pip6]

Thanks for photos, definately how she is marked underneath. Maybe spots will merge to produce more markings on body. Hope judges like arabs...

 

[Perissa]

A good horse is never a bad colour and most judges I have experienced will look past colour and reward a good horse. Sometimes (and I'm trying to word this in the nicest possible way
) owners can look at their horses through rose tinted glasses and will refuse to acknowledge that if their horse was bay or chestnut and not spotty it would be rather average.
QUOTE]

I am a judge and agree with SmallHunter.

I also agree with MissSBirds whole post. Particulary this part

When judging a class, the judge is looking for the best horse of that type. So placings should reflect not just conformation and behaviour, but the correctness of the horse to the ideal type promoted by that class.

So if you have a judge who sticks to the rules completely, they are actually well within their rights to place a well behaved spotted horse lower because it is not, officially, a coloured. It's not judges that make rules, it's the societies that do. Competant judges are expected to be well versed in them. For coloured classes the rules are provided by CHAPS, who very clearly state that they do not accept spotties/appys as coloureds.


So, as a judge I would have no choice, if the class stated Coloured, a spotty would have to either be placed last or leave the ring. HOWEVER if the class said Coloured and Spotted (or similar) no problem whatsoever.

You would be amazed at how many people think that because, for example, a pony is ridden that makes it a Riding Pony - its not, or because a horse is ridden that makes it a Riding Horse - its not. Or people who think that a Welsh cross New Forest is M+M - it not!!!

Just remember, at the end of the day you get to take the best horse home simply because they are yours. It is only one persons opinion.

 

[Yorkshire dumpling]

Thanks for photos, definately how she is marked underneath. Maybe spots will merge to produce more markings on body. Hope judges like arabs...

she looks very cute and i am sure she will do ok in arab classes possibly coloured too

 

[pip6]

Thanks Dumpling,

I wish! Firstly 'extra' white is frowned on as they are meant to be solid colours. Secondly, she is a Crabbet arabian. She descends rfom the origional desert imports & hasn't been modified/bred for modern showing tastes. As such she wouldn't have enough dish to her face, her eyes aren't prominent enough, her neck isn't long/arched enough, her back isn't flat enough, her tail carriage isn't high enough, her legs are too thick, her chest too deep, she carries too much muscle & she has a sane/sensible temperament so not likely to 'perform' in the show ring. Definately not looking at her through rose tinted specs.

She will however make a lovely riding horse (Crabbets are reknown for producing top class performance horses) & hopefully carry me many miles in endurance. In Crabbet terms she's lovely, in show arab terms definately not. As an aside many top ridden arabs are Crabbets, such as Binley Silvern Prince who won ridden stallion last year at HOYS. This isn't a bi*ch, I'm very happy with her, just realise no point in entering arab classes, why considering colooured classes.

 

[Perissa]

Thanks Dumpling,

I wish! Firstly 'extra' white is frowned on as they are meant to be solid colours. Secondly, she is a Crabbet arabian. She descends rfom the origional desert imports & hasn't been modified/bred for modern showing tastes. As such she wouldn't have enough dish to her face, her eyes aren't prominent enough, her neck isn't long/arched enough, her back isn't flat enough, her tail carriage isn't high enough, her legs are too thick, her chest too deep, she carries too much muscle & she has a sane/sensible temperament so not likely to 'perform' in the show ring. Definately not looking at her through rose tinted specs.

She will however make a lovely riding horse (Crabbets are reknown for producing top class performance horses) & hopefully carry me many miles in endurance. In Crabbet terms she's lovely, in show arab terms definately not. As an aside many top ridden arabs are Crabbets, such as Binley Silvern Prince who won ridden stallion last year at HOYS. This isn't a bi*ch, I'm very happy with her, just realise no point in entering arab classes, why considering colooured classes.

Most affiliated arab shows now have crabbet classes including the Nationals.

 

[Hippona]

I have entered all the coloured classes on my dun and have done quite well so go for it. I had a few people saying he shouldnt be there but the schedules all said piebald skewbald dun roan palamino and apaloosas, admittedly these were only local shows. Also look out for the odd coloured classes sometimes they are split but not always.

Same here.....my little dun usually wins, and theres lots of sick coming up from 'proper' coloured owners.....but if it says in the schedule you are eligble to enter......go for it

 

[Rachaelpink]

I used to show my appy at riding club level but found very mixed responses. Judges either loved her or hated her, she either got placed first or 2nd or not at all by some judges. The judges that didn't place her I always asked what I could do and they said it's just judges preference she's nicely schooled etc. In end I gave up showing after she won the championship at local club as the results were so variable. She is quite different though as she has pink around her eyes and mouth, a sort of roany colour with spots.

http://s951.photobucket.com/albums/ad357/rachaelpink/?action=view&current=topazosbaldeston.jpg

 

[Sportyspots]

YD BApS seem to change the rules every decade! In the 90s any horse with unknown breeding but spotted colouring could be reg in Primary reg. Klaus who has been mentioned was actualy a Knabstrupper as was Flabe who did a lot of winning. At that time my Appy had full pedigree which showed a RID 3 generations back so had to be reg as part bred. As a youngster he did Sport horse classes at the County shows and was 1st or 2nd every time out in classes often of 20+. he was placed in BYEH classes as a 4 year old so I entered him in the 4 & 5 year old Appaloosa sport horse class at Leicester County. BApS phoned me refusing my entry saying they could not have a part bred representing the breed at a County show.

Not received much predudice except 3 or 4 years ago did a paints, spots, pal class which was advertised with BApS. Over 20 entrys includ 3 Appys who had all taken Appy champs at County shows, after intial walk round judge placed all horses except the Appys who were told to come in in any order at end. You can imagine the conversation we 3 had at the end of the line. Anyway judge
did place mine but when she gave me the rosette actualy said they hated spots
and we would have won if he was solid colour!!!!!

As others have said if schedule says paints, spots etc then enter but if it says coloured then check with secretary! Not been to Northern BApS show as way out of my area but the reports I've read always make it sound like a really friendly, fun show. Have fun and get out there, the more people showing spots the more classes will be put on for us. Good luck

 

[cloudandmatrix]

Thanks Dumpling,

I wish! Firstly 'extra' white is frowned on as they are meant to be solid colours. Secondly, she is a Crabbet arabian. She descends rfom the origional desert imports & hasn't been modified/bred for modern showing tastes. As such she wouldn't have enough dish to her face, her eyes aren't prominent enough, her neck isn't long/arched enough, her back isn't flat enough, her tail carriage isn't high enough, her legs are too thick, her chest too deep, she carries too much muscle & she has a sane/sensible temperament so not likely to 'perform' in the show ring. Definately not looking at her through rose tinted specs.

She will however make a lovely riding horse (Crabbets are reknown for producing top class performance horses) & hopefully carry me many miles in endurance. In Crabbet terms she's lovely, in show arab terms definately not. As an aside many top ridden arabs are Crabbets, such as Binley Silvern Prince who won ridden stallion last year at HOYS. This isn't a bi*ch, I'm very happy with her, just realise no point in entering arab classes, why considering colooured classes.

she is absoloutly stunning, and exactly my type of arab. what a beautiful foal.

 

[pip6]

Hi Perissa,

She won the southwest youngstock class 2009, was the only one to turn up! I put her mum in last year, who's faults I also acknowledge. Got very annoyed when the whip & frozen posing rules weren't adhered to by judge who is extermely knowlegable & shows so knows exactly what the rules are. My girl behaved perfectly, did exactly as asked, to be placed last behind a horse that was dragged about the ring by its head & refused to trot. Not sure why my girl was so hideous that she deserved to be behind that. Even in these classes they seem to be going for the showier types looking at what won. My youngster will be very attractive, but not a showy arab. I can't create more dish with schooling. Not wingeing, just how it was/is. I am involved with the Crabbet Organisation, indeed I write the endurance round up for the Crabbet Journal.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

Rude!!! I've entered my boy in coloured classes as 'coloured' is what he is!! Never had any problems, and always done well as he is so stunning. I would just go for it, each show will have its individual rules, so if the rules allow then go for it! ignore haters ( they are just jealous!) I did have one lady say to me that she didnt like appys and that he was ugly! UGLY!! I had to bite my tounge and say 'each to their own!' and walked off!!

How blooming rude! Even if I ever thought a horse was ugly (all horses are lovely to me) I wouldn't dream of telling anyone, let alone the owner! She must be a right old bag

I think appys are gorgeous

 

[Puppy]

LOL! Typical NL to say that anyone who doesn't like spotties must be jealous!

I don't like spotties. I've never seen one that I think remotely nice looking. I am certainly not jealous. That said, I also think local showing is a load of pants!

 

[spotty_pony]

LOL! Typical NL to say that anyone who doesn't like spotties must be jealous!

I don't like spotties. I've never seen one that I think remotely nice looking. I am certainly not jealous. That said, I also think local showing is a load of pants!

That's because you've never met my gorgeous boy!

 

[RunToEarth]

LOL! Typical NL to say that anyone who doesn't like spotties must be jealous!

I don't like spotties. I've never seen one that I think remotely nice looking. I am certainly not jealous. That said, I also think local showing is a load of pants!

Yeah I'm another wildly insane one that doesn't like appys, they have never appealed to me.
I have a coloured that I think is quite a nicely marked coloured, apart from having too much white down his face. He is a bit of a bog horse and although he does quite well showing, he isn't a world beater in the showing world, and I wouldn't be in the slightest offended if someone said they didn't like him, coloured are an aquired taste after all.
If you are going to go into the showing world you have to accept that not everyone (if anyone) will regard your horse as highly as you do.
I cannot stand going to shows where people argue with the judge's line up. (and it is NEVER the county shows this happens, only the local ones...) It really does pee me off.

 

[Puppy]

Yeah I'm another wildly insane one that doesn't like appys, they have never appealed to me.

LOL! We can take cover together then RTE I've just honestly never seen one that I didn't think was fugly. However, as always with horses, it's each to their own

I have a good friend who would NEVER, EVER consider a grey mare but for me, that's just the perfect sex and colour!

 

[freckles22uk]

i know, it really gutted me about mine, not because of the fact she cant go higher than part bred class. it is the fact that on the papers when you fill out a passport it says " horses with 2 main register parents will go onto the main register" and horses with just 1 parent and or grand parent will go on annex" it says nothing about licensing and that really annoyed me. i downloaded the forms before i bought her just to make sure about the rules. so i assumed (my mistake ) that she would be put on main as both are registered on the main register! ggggggggggrrrrr i think that is wrong, they should clearly say " 2 main parents and stallion must be licensed for horse to also be on main reg". otherwise it is a bit miss leading.

Yes it is mis-leading and annoying.. have you registered her with APHC?

 

[freckles22uk]

Oops... getting back on topic...

I did show Freckles in a few local shows and some were coloured classes, and we always did well... she was always in the top 3, but she is very well marked and has lovely conformation.

the only time she didnt come with a first place, was at the APHC breed show was she was a pain in the A*s............. as she was seperated from her stable mate...lol