what biasses have you experienced showing appaloosas????

Puppy said:
LOL! We can take cover together then RTE ;) I've just honestly never seen one that I didn't think was fugly. However, as always with horses, it's each to their own :)

I have a good friend who would NEVER, EVER consider a grey mare :rolleyes: but for me, that's just the perfect sex and colour! :D :D
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See, I am not a lover of mares, Bertha has always been there, but she is a charmless creature and loves to be a grumpy thing.
I am the same though, I am so fussy with some things, I HATE wall eyes, I hate the really pale skin around eyes, I'm not a fan of too much white on the face (including my own, see, I'm not just knocking everyone else's horses) there is one member on here that has quite a hansome spotty horse, having said that!
My OH is the most picky thing in the whole world when it comes to horses- he loves his ginger pointer (which he is on in sig) but doesn't really like the grey one as it's a "bit of a tank"...
 
RunToEarth said:
See, I am not a lover of mares, Bertha has always been there, but she is a charmless creature and loves to be a grumpy thing.
I am the same though, I am so fussy with some things, I HATE wall eyes, I hate the really pale skin around eyes, I'm not a fan of too much white on the face (including my own, see, I'm not just knocking everyone else's horses) there is one member on here that has quite a hansome spotty horse, having said that!
My OH is the most picky thing in the whole world when it comes to horses- he loves his ginger pointer (which he is on in sig) but doesn't really like the grey one as it's a "bit of a tank"...
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LOL! When you talk about Bertha, it always remind me of Star - she's grumpy too, but amazingly solid and reliable, and has given so much to our family :) Mind you, she's lagging behind Bertha at only 24 ;)

I love mares. I've had ONE gelding that I loved to pieces, but hmmm, I'm really not sure I'd ever buy another one as my main riding horse (mind you, if Be has a colt, I'll have no choice :rolleyes:)

I'm like you though - very picky with what I like and don't, and that include overall appearance. I don't like wall eyes, or cremellos either :o
 
I have a knabstrupper, how can you not love that bum which is extremely even both sides?!

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LOL I understand preferances really- I'm not so keen on a star and snip together, each to their own! I didn't plan to buy a spotted but something struck me about this bum, even at only 2 months old!

As for any showing class, every judge will have different taste!

Can we see a pic of yours? :)
 
Not really Tallyhohoho, I don't think it is. It is difficult to see the conformation when you have spots before the eyes! :D They do take more looking at, and probably are an acquired taste. I have to say I think the majority are wonderful, especially now that the Dances With Wolves type are no longer as fashionable as they were! (I was not keen on the very tall rangy ones!) We first went to the national show over 20 years ago and the massed ranks of appy's was a sight to behold!
I think that if they are shown in the right classes and disciplines they can and do do well. There are a few do very well at dressage (not top flight admittedly) and they are useful creatures. I think part of the problem is that people want to do in hand classes and they just don't exist at local level for the spotties. I think other breeds have similar problems tbh, there aren't the in hand and local classes for them, so they try and shoehorn them into other classes and then get upset when they don't do well against the animals that are true to type.
The current Appy is a very different creature from the old girl, although both were/are 15.3, the old girl was a much longer heavier build than the current one, who has a fair amount of arab and tb in her history.
So at the end of that long ramble, I think the quality of judging is fine, the key is entering your horse in the right class :)
 
Personally I dont think spottys should be included in coloured classes because to me they're just not coloured....!

The judging then goes one of two ways - either, the judge scores highly because they're unusual (regardless of their actual ability), or completely ignores and scores poorly because they're too unusual and they're not sure what to look for.

There should be more relevant classes that they should enter - then the judges hopefully will have a good idea what to look for.
 
my post is not specific to appalosas but it is with reference to showing.

I love showing but i find that if you win or get placed in a class is purely down to if the judge fancies your animal. Its very much if they like it or not - and the difference between the older more traditional judges and the younger ones is so huge.

I have always shown but i prefer SJ as at least if i go clear in the fastest time then i win!
 
tallyhohoho said:
Do you guys think this is saying something about the quality of judges???
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No. Judging at local level, is an extremely thankless task, and finding judges to judge at local level is even more thankless. I have absolute confidence the judges know exactly what they are doing, it is the argumentative sod in the ring that is less likely to have a clue. Judging at higher levels is less thankless, and a lot of the judges are well known for their efforts, which makes it less of a task.
Showing requires you to take things on the chin at times, so to speak. The grey boy in my sig was marked down a couple of seasons ago because the judge didn't like the saddle, that is life.
 
pip6 said:
Thanks Dumpling,

I wish! Firstly 'extra' white is frowned on as they are meant to be solid colours. Secondly, she is a Crabbet arabian. She descends rfom the origional desert imports & hasn't been modified/bred for modern showing tastes. As such she wouldn't have enough dish to her face, her eyes aren't prominent enough, her neck isn't long/arched enough, her back isn't flat enough, her tail carriage isn't high enough, her legs are too thick, her chest too deep, she carries too much muscle & she has a sane/sensible temperament so not likely to 'perform' in the show ring. Definately not looking at her through rose tinted specs.

She will however make a lovely riding horse (Crabbets are reknown for producing top class performance horses) & hopefully carry me many miles in endurance. In Crabbet terms she's lovely, in show arab terms definately not. As an aside many top ridden arabs are Crabbets, such as Binley Silvern Prince who won ridden stallion last year at HOYS. This isn't a bi*ch, I'm very happy with her, just realise no point in entering arab classes, why considering colooured classes.
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Diversifying from the original post a little but topically - there are Crabbet arabs in the back pedigree of each American appaloosa - you can certainly see it in my boy with his head carriage and how he holds his tail and if he is prancing about in the field how he moves! He was born in France from a stud that prides itself in breeding appaloosa to appaloosa (the Crabbets are about 7-8 generations back), I imported him as a weanling. Later I bought a pretty mare who was born in Yorkshire and to my surprise she had some common Crabbet arab ancestors with my stallion. I love to browse through the book 'The Authentic Arabian' and see photos of their ancestors - its a small world.
 
sugarlump121 said:
LOL I understand preferances really- I'm not so keen on a star and snip together, each to their own! I didn't plan to buy a spotted but something struck me about this bum, even at only 2 months old!

As for any showing class, every judge will have different taste!

Can we see a pic of yours? :)
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Ah, well that's exactly it with preferences - we all love different things. :) Personally, I love a nice bay with a star and a snip (but not so much on a chestnut :o) here's one of mine with such, in her (much, much!) younger days, before she got more grey in the face:

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It could indeed, lol :p (and when I was shopping for Be, after previously having had three bays at once, I would hardly consider another one back then :o) but I love my boring bay girl, and I've never known a spotty that I remotely liked the look of! (sorry! :o)

Incidentally, my friend has a well bred appy that cost 5 figures when imported about ten years ago - he loves it, people have made silly offers, but it's not my cup of tea at all. In fact, I took his bog standard NF when I needed to borrow a horse from him! :D

ETS - loads of my friends mock me for loving greys, as they're such filthy, hard work, but I'm a sucker for them! :D :D
 
Sarah sum1 frosty bum said:
How blooming rude! Even if I ever thought a horse was ugly (all horses are lovely to me) I wouldn't dream of telling anyone, let alone the owner! She must be a right old bag :rolleyes:

I think appys are gorgeous :)
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I know!!! :( I would never tell someone that their horse is ugly either! Everyone has their own preference on horse breed/ colour but you dont go telling people their horse is ugly! :(
I think so too :)
I love big greys too, especially dappled! But I do appreciate a stunning bay :D
 
tallyhohoho said:
Do you guys think this is saying something about the quality of judges???
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Not at all. As I already explained the judges are well within their rights to drop a spottie presented in a coloured class.

Even at local level, from watching and stewarding at many shows, the vast majority of judges get it pretty much right.

I's always the lower placed competitors who have an issue with it, and there's always an excuse to discredit the judge ie.:

'the judge doesn't like spotties'
'the judge clearly prefers large breeds'
'the judge obviously prefers greys'
'so and so knows the judge'
'the judge breeds hunters so they choose hunter types'

etc.
 
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KateandSpotlight said:
I know!!! :( I would never tell someone that their horse is ugly either! Everyone has their own preference on horse breed/ colour but you dont go telling people their horse is ugly! :(
I think so too :)
I love big greys too, especially dappled! But I do appreciate a stunning bay :D
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Kateandspotlight - your horse looks totally stunning - any chance of posting some bigger pics???

I own an amazingly handsome 17.2 "boring bay" warmblood - I think he's the most stunning horse. So much so that now he's 20 and needs a quieter life I went pony shopping for another younger one as similar as possible....and definately a gelding....Long story short I'm now the proud owner of a fantastic spotty MARE!!! Not becasue she was spotty but because she is wonderfully sane and safe (I'm not a brave rider) and can turn her (stripey) hooves to so many things - so I'm smitten. But the spots were an unexpected bonus X
 
Sounds like racism to me (ex-appaloosa owner, by the way, long before they became so - rightly - highly-prized)
 
So how would a judge mark a pintalosa (sorry if spelling is wrong)? It has coloured patches, they just happen to be made up of spots. I don't understand why spooties aren't coloureds & it is accepted that they are marked down purely for 'colour' reasons. Many things have been written in the past, doesn't make them right so why is it accepted now? Surely the only difference between a spotty & coloured is the size of the patches of colour/white?
 
I had a red leopard mare who used to win all her coloured ridden and inhand, she was gorgeous. Never had anybody moan at me though, maybe they done it behind my back lol
 
I have seen one appaloosa that, if solid coloured, might have done ok at higher level showing. The rest, I'm afraid, were all pretty horrible - not just because they had spots, but because they were generally 'bad' looking horses that wouldn't have done well in the showring. If they had an owner who loved them and thought they were beautiful then great - but they weren't made for showing.

That's why so many people hate local showing (or showing in general, because they then generalise about all showing following their one experience at Little Piddle Village Show) - they take their perfectly fine for SJ or RC activities horse to a show, only to be told by a judge that, in their opinion, it isnt good enough for showing/goes badly/has poor conformation etc - that judge is then, in the rose tinted eyes of the owner - as idiot who just said nasty things about poor Dobbin, when in fact they are right. The owner then refuses to go showing again, tells everyone how rubbish and biased showing is and continues to imagine that ewe-necked, dippy backed, behind the knee Dobbin will, in fact, win the Small Hunter at HOYS one day :D
 
teagreen said:
That's why so many people hate local showing (or showing in general, because they then generalise about all showing following their one experience at Little Piddle Village Show) - they take their perfectly fine for SJ or RC activities horse to a show, only to be told by a judge that, in their opinion, it isnt good enough for showing/goes badly/has poor conformation etc - that judge is then, in the rose tinted eyes of the owner - as idiot who just said nasty things about poor Dobbin, when in fact they are right. The owner then refuses to go showing again, tells everyone how rubbish and biased showing is and continues to imagine that ewe-necked, dippy backed, behind the knee Dobbin will, in fact, win the Small Hunter at HOYS one day :D
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Doesn't it wind you up? I don't generally do many local shows, but we do some of the equestrian life stuff (OHs mum calls them equestrian life or death) it is so funny because the champs for EL are after all of the county shows and the beefy things, where everyone gets to know oneanother, and people are generally extremely well behaved, I think because there is a higher standard of horse and a respect for the judge. After a nice summer, going to equestrian life or death, whose qualifiers were all local shows, the amount of people sqabbling and bickering and treating it like a HOYS evening class is horrendous.
I think if you are going to be successful in showing, you have to accept the whole thing is based around someone's (usually well founded) opinion, and if they don't like your horse, then you just have to let it roll. Unfortunately my coloured horse never does too well in workers classes, he always jumps nicely but working hunter judges prefer a solid colour.
 
teagreen said:
That's why so many people hate local showing (or showing in general, because they then generalise about all showing following their one experience at Little Piddle Village Show) - they take their perfectly fine for SJ or RC activities horse to a show, only to be told by a judge that, in their opinion, it isnt good enough for showing/goes badly/has poor conformation etc - that judge is then, in the rose tinted eyes of the owner - as idiot who just said nasty things about poor Dobbin, when in fact they are right. The owner then refuses to go showing again, tells everyone how rubbish and biased showing is and continues to imagine that ewe-necked, dippy backed, behind the knee Dobbin will, in fact, win the Small Hunter at HOYS one day :D
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I rarely venture into a showing class (WH usually), but when I have, I have been pleasantly surprised at the results. You won't know until you try, but if you don't do well, take it with good grace!
 
I think a BIG part of the problem is people breeding for colour rather than quality which happens alot with coloured and spotty horses (i did my disertation on a topic along similar lines to this).
Now that coloured and spotty horses are being bred just for their colour rather than their conformation and performance ability. Faults creep in but are ignored if the horse is of the desired colour.
Obviously there are horses who have fantastic conformation who are coloured/spotty etc and can be seen winning at HOYS etc, but i think the ones often shown at local level are the lower end of the scale that have just been bred for there colour so do have faults and therefore end up at the bottom of the line.
Im sure this greatly offends some people but i am more than happy to share my research (which was along the lines of does colour effect performance) and im sure your horses are all lovely!
Q
 
My girls colour accidental, I bred my grey mare to a chestnut boy who has a white face & socks, but not the 'extra' bits, so she must be a throwback or the sabiano came from her mum & isn't obvious on the white background...

Very definately bred looking at performance & conformation, I am very aware of mums weak points & think the dad has done an excellent job in improving these.

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20 minutes old! Very proud mum.
 
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pip6 said:
My girls colour accidental, I bred my grey mare to a chestnut boy who has a white face & socks, but not the 'extra' bits, so she must be a throwback or the sabiano came from her mum & isn't obvious on the white background...

Very definately bred looking at performance & conformation, I am very aware of mums weak points & think the dad has done an excellent job in improving these.

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20 minutes old! Very proud mum.
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Your foal colour is quiet likely to have come rom the sire if he has white face/blae and socks and possibly a combination of mum as well it could be sabino or Dominant white the ew gene found in TB and some arabs as its a mutation on the Kitt gene with several variants.
Your foal would be quiet valuable to pure bred arab colour and pintobain breeders.
I think its a real shame that the colour breeders either are not old enough to remember how it use to be the Appys were the real deal they had registered with a breed society back in the 70/80s and the colour classes did not exsist until a few of us went out there and got classes at county shows, for Chaps GB as it was then, we even once held at Valiences equestrian centre a national show shares with the BAS.
and at local level you could show roans palominos and spottys and coloureds I think some History lessons are needed and some tolerance of other at local unaffil level.
I also think that colour breeding has moved on from where it use to be sadly there is a complete over production of coloured horses bred at the bottom end of the mire from people who know nothing of genetics or colour breeding but have jumped on for the money rather then the passion!
here endith my rant.
I have come across at least 10 people some o whom own stallions who think you can get a homoygous from an appy mare to a tobiano says it all really!
 
Question please re genetics. I have this filly then, got chestnut from both parents, didn't get grey gene from mum who I know is a grey/non-grey together with double chestnut. I have bought some frozen semen to use in the future on my chestnut filly. Stallion is Blacklord Falkhan (Blacklord Arabi x Princess Al Hajan), a homozygous black arab with no white. The offspring will be black (but heterozygous), but will the non-white or the sabiano gene be dominant? will I get a black or a coloured?
 
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pip6 said:
Question please re genetics. I have this filly then, got chestnut from both parents, didn't get grey gene from mum who I know is a grey/non-grey together with double chestnut. I have bought some frozen semen to use in the future on my chestnut filly. Stallion is Blacklord Falkhan, a homozygous black arab with no white. The offspring will be black (but heterozygous), but will the non-white or the sabiano gene be dominant? will I get a black or a coloured?
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i would have said black but dont quote me as i may be wrong, it could be anything. i think the homozygous gene is stronger but i could very much be wrong. may be a wait and see. may end up with an appaloosa :D you never know. the lady i bought my tri coloured off had bred a homozygous mare with a pintaloosa and the foal came out lemon and white! :confused::confused::eek: no idea how unless they had sent her the wrong semen :confused::confused: it was very cute though and foal went on to producing pinto/appaloosas every time he had a foal. it was very strange (may not be strange if you get genetics ect) i dont know if that was normal or not. but it was very strange lol
 
pip6 said:
Question please re genetics. I have this filly then, got chestnut from both parents, didn't get grey gene from mum who I know is a grey/non-grey together with double chestnut. I have bought some frozen semen to use in the future on my chestnut filly. Stallion is Blacklord Falkhan (Blacklord Arabi x Princess Al Hajan), a homozygous black arab with no white. The offspring will be black (but heterozygous), but will the non-white or the sabiano gene be dominant? will I get a black or a coloured?
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The so called sabino gene can be in the black stallion it depends what his modifing genes have done but yes you have a 50% chance of the whte socks and some white comming through. you will get black if he is EE Homozygous for black if he carries no chesnut then you will get a Heterozygous black yes
 
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