What bit for bolting?

ester said:
welsh are worriers, I suspect at that point in time, for whatever reason something is worrying or hurting him. Trigger finding will definitely help, they aren't always obvious.
A couple of times mine went a bit dolally at and indoor SJ we went to lots of the time, he'd go from dozing at the sidelines to I need to get out of here NOW (generally very chilled about life for a welsh) realised for him it was when particular songs were played- he does not do base :rolleyes:.

Do you have a good stop word too?

ETA your latest post makes me wonder if he is just a bit insecure, prefers the handholding of stronger riding and isn't quite ready to take responsibilty for himself yet .
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I would agree with you thinking he is insecure yes. And if the rider doesn’t support him then he feels the need to take it into his own hands and that’s maybe why he runs?
 
Oi personally I would turn him away until the world returns to normal, you an get a saddle that's fits, get his back checked by a vet and then get a good patient trainer to help you restart him. Often when things have gone wrong horses take an awful it ore time to get going right.
With regards to getting them used stuff falling off them a good trainer will help you with this it's too easy for it to be miss interpreted or to go wrong by giving advice on here without seeing what is happening.
 
twiggy2 said:
Oi personally I would turn him away until the world returns to normal, you an get a saddle that's fits, get his back checked by a vet and then get a good patient trainer to help you restart him. Often when things have gone wrong horses take an awful it ore time to get going right.
With regards to getting them used stuff falling off them a good trainer will help you with this it's too easy for it to be miss interpreted or to go wrong by giving advice on here without seeing what is happening.
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Some good advice thanks. I don’t think I can turn him away completely as I need to keep his fitness levels up. He just needs to look at a blade of grass for him to get fat lol, so lunging, long reining and walks in hand is what we will do until all this blows over. Thank you!
 
Laurenm1401 said:
He is around 7 and was broken in in September. However I think he has been badly started when he was younger, but I’ll never know...
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He has not been broken very long, he may have a history that is causing his current issues and overreactions so my advice given the present situation would be to stop putting you and him in danger by hacking out, especially bareback on something known to tank off, go back to basics and get everything better established on the ground, build his confidence and do as much as you can to work through this without sitting on him, once you can get a saddle sorted then you can get back on, hopefully this will be behind him and you can start to enjoy him.
 
He is not a bolter, no bit on earth will stop a bolter, you could break a bolters jaw with a bit and it would not stop it. If he avoids hitting fences and walls then he is not a bolter

I would guess yours is reacting to pain and running through his bit.
saddle over sofa said:
No bit will fix a true blind bolter. A true bolter would not stop if a brick wall was put in front of it. If he is simply running away to evade things or from discomfort then as others have mentioned, more saddle checks and retraining will help. However the only thing that fixed my true bolter was a bullet, a suspected brain tumour, so be careful branding a horse with that.
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This! I’ve had a true bolter, he once bolted and went head first into a wall at the gallop, fractured his skull.
He also bolted on me at a show, I bailed out, horse galloped, hit a fence and summersaulted over it, got up, galloped again, hit another fence, summersaulted again, got up and galloped for a further mile and a half before he was stopped.
Not fun at all and i was so glad i bailed out early.
 
conniegirl said:
He is not a bolter, no bit on earth will stop a bolter, you could break a bolters jaw with a bit and it would not stop it. If he avoids hitting fences and walls then he is not a bolter

I would guess yours is reacting to pain and running through his bit.

This! I’ve had a true bolter, he once bolted and went head first into a wall at the gallop, fractured his skull.
He also bolted on me at a show, I bailed out, horse galloped, hit a fence and summersaulted over it, got up, galloped again, hit another fence, summersaulted again, got up and galloped for a further mile and a half before he was stopped.
Not fun at all and i was so glad i bailed out early.
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Jesus Christ!!! I’m glad you bailed early too or that could have been much worse. Sorry you had to go through that. Well Actually I’m glad you guys have made me see that he isn’t a ‘bolter.’
i think someone in the past has really f****d him up in the past and he has this fear ingrained in him somewhere. I don’t know what triggers it but I’m hoping he will change with more training. Thank you.
 
Laurenm1401 said:
I have a pony that is still quite green but has schooled and hacked quite a lot now. He’s usually an angel but every so often he just takes it upon himself without warning the rider that it’s time to go from 0-100mph. He is a native breed with a strong neck, he locks his neck in, puts his head down and grabs the bit and he just gets faster and all twisty/ turny until you fall off. I’ve had 3 different experienced riders on him all trying different approaches and they’ve all come off.
he is usually very good, but out of nowhere he just tanks it. There are no triggers. Nothing to spook at, he does it both in the school and out hacking, will do it when there are other horses with him or own his own, doesn’t matter.

he’s currently in a snaffle, but I’ve been told to change it. The lady recommended a Running Gag or Vulcanite Pelham. im uneducated when it comes to bits but I’m worried that they’ll be too strong and he’ll panic and fight it.
what would you suggest? If it’s not sorted then he will keep doing it and will become a danger to himself and everyone around him without realising.

teeth, back, tack etc have all been checked. He is not in pain, it is just a habit. Please no hate, end of the day I’m just trying to do good by him and would never wish him any pain or discomfort, but being safe and having control is a priority.
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I had a little mare that did just the same thing. I stopped riding her and started back at the beginning with ground work. There were many little signs that I hadn't picked up on, that she obviously wasn't happy about. I worked with her only from the ground until I could always have her attention. Once I could ask her softly for forwards, backwards and sideways in all paces and Her lateral flexion was soft, I then thought about getting on and doing the same exercises. Obviously this is only a basic description, but I now have a mare that I ride with just a halter and no bit. Persevere and keep going back to basics. If you can get their focus the softness will follow. A horse can't bolt or rear if you have good lateral flexion.
 
It is quite a thing to ride a just broken horse, because they don't understand the aids properly, they are unbalanced and apt to react to odd things. How nice it is to climb onto the old favourite you have been riding for years and you know so well.

It is tempting to say this is "naughty" but really he is learning bad behaviour, and I think you need to step back and re-start him.
I think you should spend more time getting him obeying voice aids. I know this is contentious - horses don't talk. But it is useful if they thoroughly understand some words. Always use the same word and in the same tone. And insist. Hopefully "whoa" will be obeyed. And when he stops, make him stand until you say he can move forward. Also remember what the top trainers say, that every time you handle your horse you are training him. So be consistent, be firm, be his teacher. Be someone he can trust, otherwise he will take matters into his own hands - or hooves.

I would also ask advice from someone who is experienced with Welsh ponies, because I have heard of some doing things like this and in one case the pony completely disregarded the rider's instructions and carted her right in front of a car and it was never ridden again.

He probably doesn't really understand the bit aids correctly, and as you say he is setting his neck against you. A horse can have quite a soft mouth, yet use their neck to fight the rider. A stronger bit might not be the solution but a different one might be.
 
Laurenm1401 said:
Jesus Christ!!! I’m glad you bailed early too or that could have been much worse. Sorry you had to go through that. Well Actually I’m glad you guys have made me see that he isn’t a ‘bolter.’
i think someone in the past has really f****d him up in the past and he has this fear ingrained in him somewhere. I don’t know what triggers it but I’m hoping he will change with more training. Thank you.
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Thankyou,
Unfortunately he was not the only bolter I’ve sat on but he was one of the worst. The ones previous to him taught me the value of bailing out early, particularly the one who hit a fence when I hadnt yet learned to bail, he summersaulted and i ended up underneath him, spent 20mins unconscious, a week in hospital, crushed 2 discs in my spine and has gravel rash on my arm so severe it ended with having to have maggots in it to clean it.

bolters are not something to mess with even for extremely experienced horsemen/women.

with yours i would say turn him away until after this CV crisis is over. The loss of fitness is a good thing! Fit welshies are sharp welshies and at this stage you do not want him sharp. Sharp welshies are easily bored and then they start making thier own entertainment.
Take him back to the beginning, get some very experienced help, preferably someone who knows welshies inside out, take him slowly and don’t expect to ride him properly this year. Retraining takes far longer than backing an untouched horse. I also wouldnt sit on him until you have had his back and saddle checked by reputable professionals.

Do not underestimate how much a saddle can effect horses character and behaviour. I used to have an amazing connie who was an angel, never put a foot out of line, top of every lineup in shows type until his saddle wasn’t quite right and then he started going vertical! Saddler said he had never seen such a strong reaction to such a small change in saddle fit, it took saddler less than 10mins to correct and he said most horses wouldnt even notice that!
 
Orangehorse said:
It is quite a thing to ride a just broken horse, because they don't understand the aids properly, they are unbalanced and apt to react to odd things. How nice it is to climb onto the old favourite you have been riding for years and you know so well.

It is tempting to say this is "naughty" but really he is learning bad behaviour, and I think you need to step back and re-start him.
I think you should spend more time getting him obeying voice aids. I know this is contentious - horses don't talk. But it is useful if they thoroughly understand some words. Always use the same word and in the same tone. And insist. Hopefully "whoa" will be obeyed. And when he stops, make him stand until you say he can move forward. Also remember what the top trainers say, that every time you handle your horse you are training him. So be consistent, be firm, be his teacher. Be someone he can trust, otherwise he will take matters into his own hands - or hooves.

I would also ask advice from someone who is experienced with Welsh ponies, because I have heard of some doing things like this and in one case the pony completely disregarded the rider's instructions and carted her right in front of a car and it was never ridden again.

He probably doesn't really understand the bit aids correctly, and as you say he is setting his neck against you. A horse can have quite a soft mouth, yet use their neck to fight the rider. A stronger bit might not be the solution but a different one might be.
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Yes, whoa training is very useful OP. I spend a lot of time installing a reliable whoa in mine, with the basic theme that if they don't understand or getvatressed by something then they stop, because that's what I've taught them is the safety position.
 
It occurs to me that it was very late to break a gelding at 7. Usually there is a very good reason (or not so good reason) when they have been left so long. For a mare not so unusual they could have been spending some years breeding foals. Do you know his history - is it possible he has in fact been broken before, possibly badly. Could he have an old injury that stopped him from being broken any earlier? or an old injury that stopped him being ridden for several years? Do you know how old he was when he was gelded.

I know you have to deal with the horse in front of you on the day. However, answers to the above could give you some massive clues to what is going on and some ideas how best to deal with him running off. Whatever the reason a stronger bit would be the very worst thing you could do with him IMO.
 
ester said:
the advantage of a running gag (which is one that will raise the head) is that you can ride with a snaffle rein too and have the running rein there for emergencies.

From the rest of your post though (is he welsh?) I think there is more going on that needs looking into given that he hasn't really been broken that long.
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I had a big heavy cob mare I rode in one. She'd gotten away from her old owner once and she tried it once with me. Galloping off down the side of a Welsh Mountain was not my idea of fun! I had a set of curb reiins on and they sat on her neck until needed. I think I only ever picked them up twice, she got a short sharp shock, her head came up and I got her back. It was very effective.

But its not what I'd advise in this situation. Stop riding and when this is over do a full MOT with different people, and then pack him off for a few weeks schooling. You don't have the tools you need to resolve this and are creating a problem. An experienced rider can nip it in the bud and give you some help working with hm so when he comes back you can deal with any antics
 
I would guess that the saddle frightened him by moving/going round his belly. When he runs off bareback you cannot sit as tightly and tidily as you would in a well fitting saddle so he probably feels the same insecurity.
Poor mite! I hope you can get it sorted but would wait for a good saddle, when you long rein him do you use a surcingle and numnah so at least he has something on his back/round his belly?
 
Please don't try to ride him again until the situation changes.
When you do, my advice would be to only do so in a saddle that fits. Rather an old, tatty saddle that fits than a shiny new one that doesn't.
Do the groundwork Make sure he knows his aids and commands, and is comfortable with what you are asking from him before progressing to ridden work.
Once on board, if he shoots forwards, don't grab for the rein. Keep a contact, but don't pull him in - it frightens him, and unsteadies you. Better to sit quietly if it's at all safe to do so, allow him to run, and feel that you are not unseated, before steadying him quietly and telling him he's a good boy when he listens.
 
Seconding all the advice above - now is a good time to concentrate on ground work as you can't really ride him anyway with everything that is going on. Definitely get saddle properly fitted and I'd also highly recommend getting a bit/bridle fitter in too. Although she said I was using a good bit for him, she recommended I change his browband - noticed a difference straight away - and some other minor tweaks. Friends that used her also had similar positive experiences.

Previous owners of my horse recommended a gag when riding out as he doesnt always have brakes. I don't like them but thought Id try it (as I do like having the ability to stop). Only tried once, it was horrible. He tucked his chin to his chest, I had nothing in front of me and neither of us were enjoying it. I put him straight back in a snaffle and went back to basics. Although still strong, we have a better relationship and he doesn't run off anymore
 
Clodagh said:
I would guess that the saddle frightened him by moving/going round his belly. When he runs off bareback you cannot sit as tightly and tidily as you would in a well fitting saddle so he probably feels the same insecurity.
Poor mite! I hope you can get it sorted but would wait for a good saddle, when you long rein him do you use a surcingle and numnah so at least he has something on his back/round his belly?
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I long rein in his saddle and he’s an angel.
 
Any update, how are you getting on?

I'm in a similar situation with my Connemara pony. Absolute angel to lunge and longrein with a saddle on, but she panics and bombs off under the rider. Galloping in all different directions until you come off. We've had all the usual checks done including back x-rays and it happens with a bareback pad as well.... I think I'm going to send her off to be professionally rebacked because although I am making progress with her and can at least sit on her now, it's slow and I've hit the deck too many times to want to continue.
 
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