What body protector do you have?

[Abbeygale]

Yes, good point!

And IMHO, a.n.other point is total tosh, but I'll keep quiet.

Good impression of quiet (only ickle joking )


If I was planning on wearing a BP more than a few times in a year - then maybe I would look I to the air jackets more.

On the other hand - maybe its the people like me that would only do any x-country a few times a year are more likely to have bad accidents, from lack of experience, and the greater protection should be looked for.

I haven't any intention of getting an air jacket at this time at any rate

 

[cptrayes]

Agreed. And funnily enough I know quite a few people who have bought EXOs very recently So still available

And a P2 is completely useless in those rotational falls where the rider is trapped too close to the horse during the fall to allow the lanyard to 'pop' the airbags.

I was under the impression that EXO's are no longer manufactured and that any left for sale are simply remaindered stock. Is that wrong?

I think it's time to stop referring to P2 alone in these comments, since many people are wearing Hit Airs and the same applies to any air jacket.

Of course an air jacket does not help if you do not part sufficiently from the horse, but since a 4* rider activated one over a drop fence last year without leaving the saddle or even riding the fence wrong, it'll be a rare occasion when that happens.

I am beginning to find the hatred of Point 2 based on the aggressive character of the people who sell it and some misguided marketing against its competitor to be really irrational. The jacket has its merits in improving safety whether worn alone in a situation where the rider would otherwise wear no protection (me and others hunting, hacking and schooling). It is also the only body protector which offers any protection at all to the neck or the coccyx.

Only not getting onto the horse in the first place is guaranteed to make riding completely safe. These "it won't do this" comments about things that every idiot can see it won't do, like protect you if it has not blown up, are really irritating

 

[rhino]

Nope, you are not wrong, Woof Wear donated the patent to the RDA and as far as I know there are no current plans to restart manufacture.

And I'm afraid there are lots of 'idiots' out there who don't realise that these 'body protectors' are different from regular ones. I know several people who didn't know they needed a regular bp in addition in order to compete. Obviously this is not the manufacturers fault.

If you are referring to OT at Blair then his lanyard was attached to his 5-point breastplate instead of his saddle, so assume it was not lengthened accordingly. I have seen video evidence of at least 3 rotationals where the air jacket did not deploy though.

I am not convinced about P2's personally, yes the 'unethical' selling has a part but there are serious issues regarding its safety and design which are not being answered by the manufacturers, both in the UK and America. Until they respond to these concerns I would not consider wearing one.

I would hope others would make their own minds up accordingly. Do I think in some situations they could be 'lifesaving'? Yes, I have never said they wouldn't

 

[Henbug]

I have a Racesafe body protector. It is so comfortable i forget that i am wearing it, and I wear it everytime i ride.

If I had to replace it I would definitely buy another! I think it might be best if you have a large tack shop around and go and try lots of them on.

Racesafe are brilliant, love mine. If you get it from a Racesafe trade stand eg. at Olympia (although somewhere they may be at this time of year!) they will fit it for you including taking extra lenght off for no extra charge and then sending it to you. Makes all the difference, means the back doesn't catch on the saddle when jumping.

 

[Derfette]

I have a Racesafe body protector. It is so comfortable i forget that i am wearing it, and I wear it everytime i ride.

If I had to replace it I would definitely buy another! I think it might be best if you have a large tack shop around and go and try lots of them on.

Another vote for Racesafe!

I'm a size 14/16 and slightly shorter in the body that standard. My OH (bless him), bought me a adults medium - short back, for my birthday recently and yes, you do forget you're wearing it!!!

Please make sure though you go to a saddlery that has staff who are qualified to fit BPs, as a badly fitting one can be as bad as having no BP at all!! Allow yourself plenty of time to try on several different styles. I work in a local saddlery and fit alot of BPs, it has been known for a fitting to take over an hour! It ensures that the customer goes away with the BP that fits them correctly.

 

[cptrayes]

I have seen video evidence of at least 3 rotationals where the air jacket did not deploy though.

So what? You don't believe they offer any protection in that situation anyway, so as far as you are concerned it matters not whether they go off in a rotational fall or not. I don't believe there is an idiot riding who thinks that any body protector can prevent them from every injury in the jacket area in every fall.

I know that there are a number of people on this forum who believe that air jackets actually cause or risk damage and they will not wear them, and that is obviously their right to state their opinion.

But they are balanced by almost every pro and/or advanced event rider choosing to wear one, by jockeys asking for approval to be allowed to wear one, and by thousands of leisure riders and hunters like me who are convinced from actually using them they they are offering serious protection whether used with a standard body protector or not.

Use one or not, it's your choice, but I would so love to stop the carping about them that goes on every time they come up on this forum. I think the bias can clearly be seen by the fact that it is almost always a P2 that is criticised and not a Hit Air which works exactly the same, or the generic "air jacket".

The only serious comment I have seen about lack of testing for safety is that there are people who believe that a neck/back fracture will destabilise as the jacket goes down. I have seen how long the jacket takes to deflate (bloomin' ages!) and the nature of air is that it will support equally right across the injury as it deflates and I am at a loss to see why this would be an issue. There is, in my view, far more risk that the paramedics will destabilise the injury raising the body to put on a neck brace or place them on a body board than that the jacket will do it. And that's if you break your neck in the first place. Again, from using it, I am personally convinced that I am less likely to break my neck/back wearing it than without it.

If these jackets have such safety issues would the pro's not have experienced them and given up wearing them? Would motorcyclists not have given them up a decade ago? Would the Japanese police force really have them as standard issue? They've been in use for a very long time on motorcycles and five years or more on horses. I think the dangers are exaggerated or they would be widely known by now and product liability insurance claim payouts would have meant that the products were withdrawn from the market.

 

[fornema]

I have a champion cobra body protector and love it and dosnt restrict movement, zip at front and adjustments on the side,its great. As for the point 2 i don t think i could afford the £17 it costs for each CO2 cansiter

 

[rhino]

So what? You don't believe they offer any protection in that situation anyway, so as far as you are concerned it matters not whether they go off in a rotational fall or not. I don't believe there is an idiot riding who thinks that any body protector can prevent them from every injury in the jacket area in every fall.

Either you are not actually bothering to read my posts or you are trying to put words in my mouth to suit your own ends. I have never said that they don't offer any protection in a rotational, when they are deployed.

And a P2 is completely useless in those rotational falls where the rider is trapped too close to the horse during the fall to allow the lanyard to 'pop' the airbags.

You may call it carping, I would say I'm stating my opinion. As you do, rather a lot at times

FWIW having worked in racing in recent years, I am not aware of most jockeys wanting approval for air jackets. I also know professionals in other disciplines who have stopped wearing them. And having done multiple days volunteering as a fence judge for BE last season (including FEI events) I would also argue your statement that 'almost every pro and advanced rider' wears one. It reminds me of the P2 spokesmen telling the American eventing public that is is 'virtually unheard of for an eventer at any level in the UK not to be wearing one of their products' which is blatantly untrue.

Yes, they have been used in motorcycling for a number of years. As you are well aware, the mechanics of riding falls are completely different from motorcycling accidents. I don't see how direct comparisons of safety and action can therefore be made.

You have explained your reasons for wearing one. I have explained my reasons for not wearing one. Nowhere have I suggested you are wrong in your choice so please don't suggest that whereas you can post freely, those of us who happen not to agree with your veiwpoint are 'carping on'

 

[cptrayes]

Either you are not actually bothering to read my posts or you are trying to put words in my mouth to suit your own ends. I have never said that they don't offer any protection in a rotational, when they are deployed.

I did not say you did, but you did say you have video evidence of three falls where they did not go off, to which my response "so what?" stands, as no-one ever thought it would be any different.

You may call it carping, I would say I'm stating my opinion. As you do, rather a lot at times

I call it carping to make unsubstantiated insinuations that the jackets can cause injuries, which is how I personally interpret some of some of the comments about them on this forum.

FWIW having worked in racing in recent years, I am not aware of most jockeys wanting approval for air jackets.

I did not say most.

I also know professionals in other disciplines who have stopped wearing them.

Does the number giving them up outnumber the additional people taking up wearing them? Is it even a tiny fraction?

And having done multiple days volunteering as a fence judge for BE last season (including FEI events) I would also argue your statement that 'almost every pro and advanced rider' wears one. It reminds me of the P2 spokesmen telling the American eventing public that is is 'virtually unheard of for an eventer at any level in the UK not to be wearing one of their products' which is blatantly untrue.

Having done multiple days marshalling the cross country warm-up and calling riders over to start, it is my experience that almost every pro rider who rode in those events had one on, and so did a very large proportion of amateurs.

I do wish you could separate your dislike of the way that Point 2 market their product from the worth of the product itself. Are Hit Air jackets also no good because Point 2 make unsubstantiated claims, and are far from alone in the equine industry for doing that?

Yes, they have been used in motorcycling for a number of years. As you are well aware, the mechanics of riding falls are completely different from motorcycling accidents. I don't see how direct comparisons of safety and action can therefore be made.

Having ridden a motorcycle and a horse for many years, I see enormous similarities between motor cycle falls and rider falls. I you do not then we will simply have to agree to differ.

You have explained your reasons for wearing one. I have explained my reasons for not wearing one. Nowhere have I suggested you are wrong in your choice so please don't suggest that whereas you can post freely, those of us who happen not to agree with your viewpoint are 'carping on'

I'm sorry, but my freely expressed opinion is that the continued posting against air jackets with the unsupported insinuation that they can actually be dangerous is, for me "carping on". I would defend your right to free speech with all my might, but it applies equally to me saying that it is beginning to feel like carping, sorry.

 

[millitiger]

I have a racesafe BP and am very happy with it- it is flexible and strong. I don't know I have it on when I am wearing it but have been very happy with it's performance when I have fallen off.

I also have a P2 for wearing xc and am extremely happy with that as well.
I am not going to get into the P2 debate on this thread as it will just go round and round and round in circles with neither 'side' giving an inch.

IMO there are unsubstantiated claims on both sides and the best way of telling if it is for you or not is to try one- I have found the unexpected landings I have had wearing the air jacket a LOT softer than falling without it

 

[rhino]

Firstly, all posts I have made have been referring to the P2 because that is what the poster I replied to was planning on getting - unless HitAir or other airjacket companies have a hybrid BP in association with Racesafe which I don't know about? No, thought not. I was replying to one poster about one product and am under no obligation to mention any other products which are irrelevant to the specific post I am replying to

as far as you are concerned it matters not whether they go off in a rotational fall or not

I have never said that they don't offer any protection in a rotational, when they are deployed.

I did not say you did

I call it carping to make unsubstantiated insinuations that the jackets can cause injuries, which is how I personally interpret some of some of the comments about them on this forum.

Definition of unsubstantiated: uncorroborated, unsupported by other evidence

As with a lot of safety equipment, there needs to be a stringent and ongoing testing of safety. As it is near impossible to recreate a fall exactly there will always be differences in opinion. You mentioned 'the only serious' point about safety you have seen mentioned, well there are other questions (and I am far from alone in this) which have been put to P2 and are as yet to be addressed to my satisfaction. Should I state them? Of course not, that would be carping, wouldn't it? And not what this thread was meant to be about.

I do wish you could separate your dislike of the way that Point 2 market their product from the worth of the product itself. Are Hit Air jackets also no good because Point 2 make unsubstantiated claims, and are far from alone in the equine industry for doing that?

Well it is my choice not to buy products from sources I believe may be acting in an unethical manner. My prerogative. I also think just because others may act in a similar manner it doesn't make it 'right'


And to address the 'pros do it so it must be right' comments, as much as I have admiration and respect for anyone who cuts it at the top level in any sport I think they are just as mortal as the rest of us. There is some interesting research into risk compensation/risk homeostasis therory which demonstrates that participants in 'risk' sports actually have a perception that the level of risk is lower than the average, non risk sport participant would have. Hardly surprising, as most people wouldn't contemplate competing at 4* eventing, or racing etc.. As such, I think risk judgement has to remain down to the 'informed' individual and just because Pro's do it doesn't mean the average rider should necessarily follow... Lots of links to wearing hats here which many Pro's don't also see as necessary - like I said, their own choice which they are free to make.

Have you read Nick Skelton's autobiography? There is an amusing tale in there where he becomes aware of people watching him at shows and copying his tack/practice (well the use of role models is hardly unusual) so he made a contraption out of chain which went round his horse's neck at a show. The next week there were several people sporting this piece of 'tack' It is a very good sales technique to have the most high profile people in a sport wearing/using a product... and fairly natural that many people will want to emulate their 'heroes'. Nothing wrong with that of course

I have nothing against any body protector company. In many ways the 'traditional' body protector companies have it much easier as the existing, industry accepted safety standards have been in use for a number of years. As the airjackets are a relatively new product they have to prove themselves, and they can only do that through a rigorous design and testing policy. Hopefully that process will continue, but until it does, then..


I'm out Doesn't mean anyone else has to do likewise

 

[Marydoll]

Very interesting post, at the moment im wearing my aero wear, and was lucky enough to get a p2 for my birthday that ive never worn yet, but will be this coming season, at my age i wouldnt mind a softer landing if im unfortunate enough to part company with my cuddy i wish they could make one that inflated round yer butt before landing on yer ass

 

[rhino]

Very interesting post, at the moment im wearing my aero wear, and was lucky enough to get a p2 for my birthday that ive never worn yet, but will be this coming season, at my age i wouldnt mind a softer landing if im unfortunate enough to part company with my cuddy i wish they could make one that inflated round yer butt before landing on yer ass

I have enough padding that landing @rse first is the least of my worries

 

[Marydoll]

Lol, so do I but the over 50 possibility of osteoporotic bones makes me want more padding
P.s ive seen the pictures, theres more fat on a butchers pencil
I am not jealous of Rhino, I am not jealous of Rhino, I am not jealous of Rhino and her model proportion body