What breed do you think my dog is?

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You are looking in the wrong rescues.



well I think it's a jolly good idea - and i would be part of the potential market. I don't give a toss about a KC registry - in fact as long as I can be sure of the criteria of health, temperament/trainability and working skills, I'd be entirely happy

Myself, I'd put him to a good whippet, but that's partly because I don't like white dogs, which shouldn't be the criterion for breeding at all, but I can't help the influence - besides, I'd like a good rabbiting dog that can not only bolt them, but chase them down and next to a Tudor Hound (working cocker x whippet), a good parson/whippet 'whirrier' is an old and tested mating.

but I agree that good, long-legged Parson Russel type is like gold dust. If you can create them, feed them well (I'd go for a rmb diet, but that's another can of worms) and place them in good homes, go for it.

when the oil runs out and/or becomes too expensive to afford- which will be sooner than we like to think, a sane, safe working dog will be a very useful asset for those of us lucky enough to live in the country.

I just love your posts Eceni!! !
In total agreement with you and a whippet cross to get a small fast hunter seems a great idea. Dicky is already incredibly fast, and light and a real little killing machine to start with.
He is on a rmb diet already.

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You are looking in the wrong rescues.

Anyway now you are starting to piss me off with your blatant ignorance. The people on here are your market you foolish girl you'd do well to listen to what they think....

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Whoooo!!! Starting to get abusive now are you!
Its quite clear that some people are incapable of having a debate without getting emotional and resorting to insult tactics.
How pathetic
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You thought that was an insult - how old are you 10? Please say hello to user ignore - breed your mutt please do and wait until you have to send one of your mutt puppies to the dog pound because you can't find homes for them...but i bet you wont care because you'll be quids in then!!!!
 
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Therefore I think that was the point that a poster was making; that without being KC registered, they are all, more or less, a mishmash?


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-feeling slightly invisible-

Earlier in the thread I explained the distinction between working JRTs and those registered with the KC - the Parson Russell Terrier. It is possible to have a KC reg JRT, my nan's JRT is KC reg with papers and whatnot.

I will agree that having KC reg is not the be all and end all, my nan's JRT certainly isn't the best example of his breed despite being registered. In his old age he's become rather bow-legged and barrel-chested, bless him.
 
As long as both parents are KC registered any dog can be registered so you are right there, have seen some shockers in my breed that are KC registered, and some lovely dogs without papers
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Just to add my two pennies as I've read this thread with interest so far. He's a nice enough looking dog, although not my type. If anything he's a little average looking and looks like what he is - a crossbreed terrier type. There's loads out there and loads good at doing a job, that doesn't neccessarily mean you should breed from them.
I have a whippet x terrier type bitch, rescued some 10 years ago. She is an excellent hunter, ratter etc but would I breed from her - No. All my dogs come from rescue and for this reason I see no point in adding to the population of unwanted x breed dogs, irrespective of whether they are good at working.
My friend is a dog handler for HM Customs, their working dogs come from rescue rather than breeders. In fact she is currently dogless as she waiting for another dog. Doubt she'll have to wait long though, plenty of dogs out there needing a home that will be great working dogs.
 
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-feeling slightly invisible-

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Don't feel invisible
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. I did read your post, just that this isn't my thread so I kept my questions to a minimum but they were open for anyone to answer; so thank you for answering my question about them being able to be fully registered with KC, as that was what I was not clear on.
 
Woo hoo, this thread is a cracker! Some very valid statements being made however

To put my point of view across - as always - I'm afraid that in my experience many people will call any old mongrel terrier a JRT to get it sold - the same as I call my dog a lurcher (he is a greyhound cross) when really he too is a mongrel

I wouldn't use the little dog at stud either, he is a sweetie but there are thousands of little terrier types out there already
 
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:) Thats my point you should have a good example of the breed before you go mating it off with other dogs. That doesn't neccessarily mean a KC registered dog.

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I think thats what most of us are trying to say in this thread. Regardless of KC reg or not unless a dog is a good example of its breed and close to the breed standard they should not be bred from. And I feel qualified to say this as I have a bitch here from top winning lines, whose hip score is too high for me to personally consider breeding from her. I have just had her speyed, a very hard decision as she is the last direct descendant of a line I have had for nearly 30 years
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But thats good (if very sad) because you are doing whats right for the breed.
Every breeder should be aiming to produce the very best quality pups without compromise. Maybe that IS snobby but its good sense too.
 
Yes it is sad. But I would have been a total hypocrite to have bred from her. As both her parents had low hip scores she might well have produced scores better than her own but I wasn't prepared to risk it. I am hoping to have a pup later in the summer from someone who has a very similar line. I won't be having a rescue because I particularly want to get something of this breeding although I do know there are loads of GSDs in rescue, before everyone has a go at me, and I have had rescue dogs in the past.
 
I don't think it is snobby at all. I just wish human breedings were as sensible as most sensible dog owners.
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[ QUOTE ]
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You are looking in the wrong rescues.

Anyway now you are starting to piss me off with your blatant ignorance. The people on here are your market you foolish girl you'd do well to listen to what they think....

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[/ QUOTE ]You thought that was an insult - how old are you 10? Please say hello to user ignore - breed your mutt please do and wait until you have to send one of your mutt puppies to the dog pound because you can't find homes for them...but i bet you wont care because you'll be quids in then!!!!

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So "ignorant" and "foolish" are not insults then?
Well, how about patronising and condescending?

Just because I do not share your opinions, does not give you the right to be rude, or for me not to object to it.

Overall this has been a fascinating and valuable debate, that has had contributors really thinking hard and offering a lot of useful and interesting information. I guess we need the occasional contributor who can't handle having their values challenged, and provides a little humour to the whole debate for the others.

Would just like to thank everybody for their comments and say that I have taken note of all that has been discussed the past few days, and not just the views that reflect my own.

Many thanks to you all!!
 
I also enjoyed the discussion
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.

I don't think I ever mentioned that I think your dog is very sweet looking, even though I am not a small dog fan.
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I also didn't mention, as this post was about what breed we thought your dog was, that I am afraid, I'm among the many here who would also not breed from your dog.
 
This is becoming a particularly intelligent (for the most part) discussion

so I'd like to ask a question that hasn't come up yet - with apologies for slightly hijacking the thread.

a great many people have voiced the opinion that one shouldn't breed unless a dog is a) registered and/or b) is close to the breed standard.

Why do you believe this?

and

could we perhaps move to something else as a standard of worth when breeding?

it seems to me as a formerly practising vet, that many of the breed standards are set by people who are particularly powerful in the breed and are not necessarily aimed at health, temperament or working ability. The tendency to push to extremes has grown faster in the past decades than all the previous years of dog breeding combined.

To give two instances - sometime in the past decade, someone tried to breed English bulldogs back to the type that were prevalent in the Victorian/Edwardian era - when they were far less extreme than today. He failed because, although far healthier, they failed to conform to current breed standards and so nobody bought his puppies.

In the US, some particularly powerful people in one dog breed (safest not to name them), didn't like a rival who had dogs of 'dilute' colour (so, blue rather than black, fawn rather than red, and the like). In the US, until very recently, dogs of that breed were banned from the US registry if they were of dilute colouring.


In both cases, I believe very healthy dogs may well have been unregisterable.

so - perhaps it's time for us to pay less attention to the politics of the Kennel Club, which is one of the last bastions - and a very strong bastion - of vested interest in this country, and more at the health, trainability and temperaments of our dogs? We should be testing, of course, and the person who speyed her bitch with a high hip score has my highest commendation, but it doesn't always have to be under the auspices of those in the various breeds who wield power, often at the expense of their breed's health.
 
I absolutely agree with you!! I have no time whatsoever for the KC. I do, however have a very nice dog who managed to be KC registered but if they saw her now would not want anything to do with her as she is the wrong colour. She is black and shouldn't be. I like her being black.
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I wouldn't choose to buy a KC registered Border Collie, however I have had many ISDS collies over the years.
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I wouldn't breed from Kate's little dog, but then I don't choose to be a dog breeder. I am not saying she shouldn't, just that I wouldn't. Kate will have to research her market for the puppies if she does choose to breed; just like I had had buyers lined up for my puppies when I found out a dirty sexy collie dog had come all the way to my farm and raped one of my girls.

Kate, you will be surprised at how much breeding a litter of pups costs you. I thought they wouldn't cost anything, until I got my electricity bills and oil bills!
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Im not on about the KC standard Im on about a good perfect example of a dog - withoput even reading the KC standards I could tell you a good looking rottweiler from a terrible onw, and i think this goes for most people.

Perhaps we should drop the term KC for now so we all knwo what we're going on about..??
 
I am grateful to Eceni for hijacking my thread ( anyime Boadicea!), with her intelligent scientific approach. I wholeheartedly agree with the points she has made. This discussion has challenged many of the ideals of dog breeding and I think it has been a valuable discussion. Whoever sets the breed standards may well have a vested interest and be in a position of power. - We should ask, is that right?
To glibbly adhere to breed standards especially when they relate purely to appearance is fundamentally wrong.

Those that do so should ask themselves why.
 
that's Boudica to you....
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it means, 'She who brings victory', although, sadly, she didn't... The world would be *such* a different place if she had

but thank you anyway, impressed you recognised the reference.

and glad you don't mind.

and glad someone else understands the thoughts... seems to me that with the deterioration in some of the pedigree breeds that is the result of 50 years of spectacularly heavy in-breeding, now's the time to look beyond the KC

and

have you decided to breed?

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I thought I would give you Dickys exact details, so you can tell me specifically why you would not breed from him.
He stands 14 inches high
He has perfect bite, his incisors interlock at the front.
He can be held in the air by his teeth, hanging on to something for ages.
He can run and jump all day, he is very fast and agile enough to catch baby rabbits. He will even gallop after the deer, but he understands sheep are not to be chased. He can overtake my horse ( a cob) at a canter and stay in front!
He can get into rabbit holes, but I do stop him.
He has caught numerous rats and small rodents at the croft and kills them quickly.
He has straight limbs and hard pads and is able to dig and has dug large holes to get moles and filed mice in the field.
He has killed mice in the house too.
He has no deformities of the limbs, maloclussions of the teeth or mouth. He appears to have good eyesight and has no deformity of the eyes or nose.
He has a great sense of smell, he can identify game birds on the air and is brilliant at flushing out pheasants. He leaps through the woodland undergrowth to do this, with great agility.
He is hardy, with a coarse double coat and can be out all day in the cold without being bothered.
He is also well trained, comes to call and whistle, sits, lies down to order, and will perform a range of tricks like rolling over, leaping through hoops and jump from chair to chair on command, and that I can demonstrate.
He has a gentle trainable temperament and is good with children.
He is not neurotic or hyperactive.
He has no behavioural problems and is not destructive

He has two brown patches on ears and has masses of brown spots on his legs, and black spots on his torso.
He is 11 months old.
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KJ you simply arent listenning to what people are saying

Try and keep up - FORGET BREED STANDARDS we're talking about a good specimin of a dog in general.

I think all but a few have said they would not breed from your dog - one or two have said they would.

Simple business sense should tell you that isn't viable...if common sense doesn't.
 
one of us isn't keeping up, but then one of us can spell

a great many people have harped on about breed standards and the fact that he isn't KC registered as a reason not to breed from him.

the rest wouldn't breed because he's a cross-bred

which for some of us, given he's healthy, sound in mind and body, intelligent and trainable, doesn't matter a hoot.

so what matters, then, is finding the right bitch and making sure she has at least 9 owners lined up who both don't care about KC registration and do want the qualities of the dog.

seems like she has listened completely to me...

(and whatever is a forensic arch doing in the north of Scotland? ,job envy. - sounds a great deal of fun)

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I am very anti KC after seeing my husbands multiple show winning Chesapeke bay retriever have to be PTS from a nerve wasting contition, same thing his sister was PTS for too, he was only 7yo. He was bred by a breeder who carried on breeding from the same line even after they realised they had this problem! TBH not just that there are so many breeds ruined by breeding standards set by the KC.

That why we chose patterdale terriers, who are not KC recognised. We have now bred 2 litters, the second litter was 9 pups, which are not yet 3 weeks old and are all sold already!! There are a lot of people out there who love and want scruffy little terriers!!

I think if your dog is good at what he does, has a good temperament and conformation. You have no reason not to let him be a stud dog. BUT make sure that the bitches are also of a similar quality, and that their owners are sensible about breeding a litter, know what they are doing and have homes lined up for the pups etc, so that they don't become rescue statistics!!

i'm sure there is a similar discussion in 'Breeding' about breeding from mare with unknown breeding..... it hasn't had the same response as this!!! In fact last time I looked it was rather a positive response, so long as the general conformation and temperament were good!

I realise there are more unwanted dogs in the world than horses, but surely as long as the breeder is responsible and vets all the potential owners hopefully you are not adding to the statisics.

We personally tell all new owners that if for any reason they can't keep the dog we would be happy to take it back. this happened to one of our first litter, because their daughter was really allergic to him so he came back and fortunately managed to find a new home for him!!
 
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