FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Thoughts?
She's lame RF.
Left Fore
Right Fore
She's lame RF.
Left Fore
Right Fore
What can you see here?
- Thread starter FlyingCircus
- Start date
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Right Fore, copied same pic twice..!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
That she’s high/low and probably grazes with the same leg forwards all the time?
I’d be curious to see a non X-ray version of the last pic/heel bulbs given the difference between sides. (And the side bone )
I’d be curious to see a non X-ray version of the last pic/heel bulbs given the difference between sides. (And the side bone )
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Yep! Dishes on that one too.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Full declaration - I am rubbish at X rays!
But, I would have guessed lame RF from the X rays.
Firstly the heels are very large on here, so I presume contracted heels? Are you sure that there is no thrush on the frog on this side, as contracted heels seem to often have a hairline crack in the frog for infection to fester.
Then, it looks like a little sidebone on the RF. Not enough to cause lameness in itself necessarily, but enough to cause issues whilst forming?
Also, the LF is stacked correctly, whereas the RF is stacked on the wonk. Sorry for the unprofessional terms.
But, I would have guessed lame RF from the X rays.
Firstly the heels are very large on here, so I presume contracted heels? Are you sure that there is no thrush on the frog on this side, as contracted heels seem to often have a hairline crack in the frog for infection to fester.
Then, it looks like a little sidebone on the RF. Not enough to cause lameness in itself necessarily, but enough to cause issues whilst forming?
Also, the LF is stacked correctly, whereas the RF is stacked on the wonk. Sorry for the unprofessional terms.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I did a late edit on my last reply sorry! I’m presuming doesn’t land flat when dishing hence the disparity ML
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The high low thing does seem to be often manageable but with consideration to it shoeing wise. I do know one who is better in winter just because they’re not grazing as many hours/ground effects probably softer.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
I don't have any decent recent non-xray pics but will try and get some tomorrow.
We're having ongoing lameness issues with the RF. Didn't block sound when we blocked for her foot but I'm not 100% convinced whatever is going on in that foot isn't the cause or isn't a symptom!
We're having ongoing lameness issues with the RF. Didn't block sound when we blocked for her foot but I'm not 100% convinced whatever is going on in that foot isn't the cause or isn't a symptom!
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Did you continue the block up the leg to above the knee?
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Non professional horsey terms are my language of choice, haha!
She is prone to being thrushy so we have to keep ontop of that, but no central sulcus thrush. Is more likely down the grooves if she is to get it.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
No, not today. Trying to work out if its worth it as she is only rising 7 and for 3 years of being backed we have managed only 6 inconsistent months of work due to this lameness, colic surgery, potential hock infection, work ups, gastroscope...the list goes on! I'm starting to doubt my sanity to keep chucking money after a pony who clearly doesn't fancy being a ridden pony
She has been to Liphook for diagnostics and was so inconsistently lame they weren't able to block or come to any conclusion. Just xrayed hocks and stifles at my insistence.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Some are just built less strongly than others.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Or with a strong desire to be a retiree
Equi
Well-Known Member
Shoes off, toss out for a year.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
This is certainly one option! We're moving to somewhere with our own land this year hopefully so her and my gelding can just be retired field ornaments.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I would certainly take her shoes off and let her sort her own foot balance out (with a bit of help from a knowledgeable farrier). I have found tea-tree oils spray brilliant for dealing with thrush.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I think if she were mine I'd probably take the shoes off, but I'd look at a whole horse health postural/groundwork approach at least alongside a more veterinary approach. So often we chase symptoms instead of looking at the fact the whole body (and therefore mind) is dysfunctional. Gillian Higgins stated clearly in the anatomy for saddle fitters course I did 5 years ago that the "vast majority" of injuries are the result of repetitive strain, ie dysfunctional movement.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
I don't know how to multi quote 
I've tried to take her back to basics several times, and started her myself so did all the groundwork etc. She has always had an odd way of moving, very welsh but also quite unbalanced generally.
I just don't have the expertise to sort fundamental movement patterns myself and don't know if spending the ££££ to send her someone that can is the right thing to do. She has already been away once to a trainer (at £££) and ended up with sand impaction
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with her where I feel that sinking more money into her is not necessarily going to help. I have other responsibilities, not least to my other broken horse, so continuing to spend thousands on her is a difficult decision.
I talked to my farrier about taking her shoes off and he isn't keen. Not sure on his rationale. The place I'm at now isn't ideal to turn away without shoes but hopefully when we move and I can have more control I can take her barefoot then.
I've tried to take her back to basics several times, and started her myself so did all the groundwork etc. She has always had an odd way of moving, very welsh but also quite unbalanced generally.
I just don't have the expertise to sort fundamental movement patterns myself and don't know if spending the ££££ to send her someone that can is the right thing to do. She has already been away once to a trainer (at £££) and ended up with sand impaction
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with her where I feel that sinking more money into her is not necessarily going to help. I have other responsibilities, not least to my other broken horse, so continuing to spend thousands on her is a difficult decision.
I talked to my farrier about taking her shoes off and he isn't keen. Not sure on his rationale. The place I'm at now isn't ideal to turn away without shoes but hopefully when we move and I can have more control I can take her barefoot then.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I don't know how to multi quote
I've tried to take her back to basics several times, and started her myself so did all the groundwork etc. She has always had an odd way of moving, very welsh but also quite unbalanced generally.
I just don't have the expertise to sort fundamental movement patterns myself and don't know if spending the ££££ to send her someone that can is the right thing to do. She has already been away once to a trainer (at £££) and ended up with sand impaction
I'm at a bit of a crossroads with her where I feel that sinking more money into her is not necessarily going to help. I have other responsibilities, not least to my other broken horse, so continuing to spend thousands on her is a difficult decision.
I talked to my farrier about taking her shoes off and he isn't keen. Not sure on his rationale. The place I'm at now isn't ideal to turn away without shoes but hopefully when we move and I can have more control I can take her barefoot then.
Farriers are generally not keen as there business is putting shoes on horses, I would take shoes off and turn away when you can then do a proper barefoot rehab, get some help from a good physio to get her posture right as she has probably been compensating from the wonky feet.
Equi
Well-Known Member
Trim = £20-25
Shoes (mostly special and every 4-6 weeks) ££££
Shoes (mostly special and every 4-6 weeks) ££££
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I just don't have the expertise to sort fundamental movement patterns myself and don't know if spending the ££££ to send her someone that can is the right thing to do. She has already been away once to a trainer (at £££) and ended up with sand impaction
I hear you, but you can learn, we all can, honestly. It's just a different kind of goal, one that suits where you and your horse are right now. Google "podcast Celeste Lazaris" and have a listen to any of the interviews she's done. She has a bodyworker in the UK trained in her techniques who's travelling the country and getting great results, but 99% is online in a very supportive group where there's tons of help and no bitchiness! There is even some exceptionally good hoofcare advice in the group as feet and posture are inseparable.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
The High/low particularly at her age/amount of work she has done shouldn't necessarily be causing the lameness. But from that point of view I think they are also problematic for the usual shoes off throw in field scenario because the horse is going to spend most of it's time in it's wonky eating posture/habit- and I've not seen anyone say theyve managed to improve that but be interesting if they have.
Hackback
Well-Known Member
Can I ask what high/low means please? I have a horse with mismatched front feet and always grazes with same leg forwards, but his issues go right up his skeleton, one shoulder is slightly larger and more upright than the other. Surprisingly although he's had a few blips he's still sound at 17.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
It's where one hoof (the back one when grazing) is taller/looks somewhat clubbed and the other is flatter/has under run heels/long toe. The one I know best is competing internationally in his teens.
www.hoofrehab.com
www.theequinedocumentalist.com
High/Low Hooves
High-Low Hoof Conformation - Farriery and Whole Horse Relevance
There is a complexed relationship between the hoof, its conformation and the forces applied to it which affects the entire musculoskeletal system, but deeper complexities are realised when there is asymmetry between pairs of hooves, stated as an uneven pair when there is an angle difference of...
www.theequinedocumentalist.com
Hackback
Well-Known Member
This is so interesting, thank you. My farrier has done an amazing job over the years. When I first started going to him years ago he used to make a heel support for the underrun foot but after a while it was no longer needed, although he still makes his shoes accordingly - the technicalities are lost on me but to do with breakover and even the position of the road nail is significant apparently. Now just after a visit you can barely see a difference in the two front feet, although as the they grow it becomes more obvious. I didn't know it was called high/low, nor that there were studies on how the physiology affects the rest of the body. I appreciate my farrier even more now!It's where one hoof (the back one when grazing) is taller/looks somewhat clubbed and the other is flatter/has under run heels/long toe. The one I know best is competing internationally in his teens.
High/Low Hooves
High-Low Hoof Conformation - Farriery and Whole Horse Relevance
There is a complexed relationship between the hoof, its conformation and the forces applied to it which affects the entire musculoskeletal system, but deeper complexities are realised when there is asymmetry between pairs of hooves, stated as an uneven pair when there is an angle difference of...
tristar
Well-Known Member
i would take off the shoes, and let the whole horse relax for say three months, from ridden work, perhaps do tarmac walking, a little lunge 1 x week, trotting poles on lunge, in hand perhaps a little lateral, backing stretching, carrotts are heroes,! to allow the horse feel if and when she is more comfortable, but first check the hoof pastern axis in both hooves and note the difference.
also note the height of the heels when viewed from the rear, through horses tail, do they match? have they improved with time etc.
allowing the hoof to expand fully in the heel will give the hoof chance to grow or wear however it needs for comfort
i had one with one boxy hoof and one flatter hoof that tended to run forwards and the heel underrun, its taken two years, last week i realized the run forwards one had shortened in the toe and i had thought about taking the heel back but only did a little, now the hoof pastern axis is perfect.
his feet are less shall we say `contracted` more open, the frog is larger hoof is a good shape and when trimmed very little is need off
a long process but when you see them use themselves fully, and happy in their work, well worth it, but you need to go the long road and not give up, there is so much to learn and when you do see it, its like why could i not see that before!
but i am a great believer in not getting them too fat, not overloading the feet with too much weight and loads of movement, any kind, especially if they are the sedentary type, i mean i have some lively horses here that literally give themselves a work out galloping around, so that helps with weight, fitness and opening the hoof, a kind of holistic lifestyle, one good thing bouncing of the other for the general good.
but comfort is everything, to use themselves easily and with ensuing health benefits to all parts of the horse, from hoof expansion to cardio
ours is a much happier horse, hope your horse can `find his feet` too
also note the height of the heels when viewed from the rear, through horses tail, do they match? have they improved with time etc.
allowing the hoof to expand fully in the heel will give the hoof chance to grow or wear however it needs for comfort
i had one with one boxy hoof and one flatter hoof that tended to run forwards and the heel underrun, its taken two years, last week i realized the run forwards one had shortened in the toe and i had thought about taking the heel back but only did a little, now the hoof pastern axis is perfect.
his feet are less shall we say `contracted` more open, the frog is larger hoof is a good shape and when trimmed very little is need off
a long process but when you see them use themselves fully, and happy in their work, well worth it, but you need to go the long road and not give up, there is so much to learn and when you do see it, its like why could i not see that before!
but i am a great believer in not getting them too fat, not overloading the feet with too much weight and loads of movement, any kind, especially if they are the sedentary type, i mean i have some lively horses here that literally give themselves a work out galloping around, so that helps with weight, fitness and opening the hoof, a kind of holistic lifestyle, one good thing bouncing of the other for the general good.
but comfort is everything, to use themselves easily and with ensuing health benefits to all parts of the horse, from hoof expansion to cardio
ours is a much happier horse, hope your horse can `find his feet` too
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
@FlyingCircus depending on where you are in Dorset I can recommend a very good farrier who is only interested in a horse being 'right' rather than whether he's replacing shoes or not. I really really rate him. He works along side vets regularly.
As others have said I'd take shoes off and get the feet balanced. Regular physio and trimming and chuck her out until the autumn. If no better at this point I go for a full lameness work up at the vets and go from there. But if lucks in your favour I'd think she'll come right once feet are level and she's using all her muscles in the right way with out compensating.
Good luck. X
As others have said I'd take shoes off and get the feet balanced. Regular physio and trimming and chuck her out until the autumn. If no better at this point I go for a full lameness work up at the vets and go from there. But if lucks in your favour I'd think she'll come right once feet are level and she's using all her muscles in the right way with out compensating.
Good luck. X
Dexter
Well-Known Member
I'd be wondering about PSSM if this is a welshie? I don't know if I made the welsh part up though. They are discovering an awful lot of them have type 2 sadly and it can cause exactly this sort of "not right but no real cause" found issues.