What conditions NEED shoes?

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Alyth

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In a previous thread I was pulled up for stating that I thought all horses could go barefoot but not all owners can!! So I need this clarified!! What, in your opinion, can only be cured/helped with the use of shoes and that barefoot methods will not work? I must admit that so far I have not been convinced!!
 
Our vet said fractured pedal bones. He's 90% anti shoes where possible and says they cause more problems than they solve but says fractured pedal bones are the one scenario where he would personally shoe as you need the extra stability of a shoe to act as a cast.

ps I'd agree that all horses can go barefoot - they weren't born with shoes and they should be able to just exist without shoes. However, I wouldn't agree that all horses can do all levels of work without some form of foot protection (be that shoes or whatever)
 
If your horse damaged the coronary band and the hoof grows with a flaw which causes it to split as it grows down, then possibly a shoe would keep the hoof tight at the bottom.
 
Mine had to be reshod on his hind feet after 2 years with them unshod, they changed shape a lot and the heels got too low. He just got too footy on rubbly ground and our new yard has stony tracks to the fields, I didn't think it was fair on him.
 
Post keratoma removal surgery - the hoof is very unstable.

I'm not anti-shoes anyway. I like them and prefer horses in full work in shoes.
 
Sorry to hijack but what about navicular? My horse has suspected navicular - some people have said shoes off, others have said corrective shoes.
 
noblesteed said:
Mine had to be reshod on his hind feet after 2 years with them unshod, they changed shape a lot and the heels got too low. He just got too footy on rubbly ground and our new yard has stony tracks to the fields, I didn't think it was fair on him.
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I thought it was quite rare for heels to get too low unless workload was suddenly increased?

Mine get footy when the Spring grass comes in or diet is wrong - could that have also been what happened with yours? I am surrounded by flint tracks too.
 
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Interesting question OP.
I would have thought pedal bone fractures and perhaps some injuries further up the leg particularily in the hind leg perhaps but not navicular I certainly had a a laminitics life saved by quick invention from a vet and a very very talented farrier the horse made a full recovery .
This am I am off to the vets with a BF driving horse who I am not quite happy withwith I am tempted if the vet suggests shoes and their explanation makes sense to to shoe if the vet thinks its the best way forward so I may have something to report later if we can find what's not right !
I will watch this thread with interest.
 
My mare's heels are very low - she's been barefoot for about 6mths. Seems to be contradictory info about this from farriers who think its too low and should have pads/wedges and bar shoes to barefoot proponents who think low heels are a natural state. Confused! Anyway, she seems to be fine with it so who am I to disagree?!
I think I'd consider shoes as a short term help for seasonal changes or if I needed to/wanted to increase the workload faster than I can condition her feet to cope. I've not been able to boot her hind feet due to the twisting action she has so shoes would be my only recourse in such circumstances. I doubt I'd ever shoe all year round again though.
 
timiton said:
Sorry to hijack but what about navicular? My horse has suspected navicular - some people have said shoes off, others have said corrective shoes.
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My horse was diagnosed with Navicular and Pedal Oestitis in Sept. We tried the remedial route (egg bars with graduated wedge) but he was still lame after three shoeings so I sent him to Rockley. He's been there 8 weeks and is now sound.. Take from that what you will ;)
 
I would think most common is people competing on grass and therefore needing studs. As far as I can see there is no BF alternative to studs and to turn tight courners in a jump off or really put the power down in dressage you need the horse to feel absolutely confident they won't slip.
I appreciate lots of people hunt BF so lower level XC may be fine, it's the point at which your taking doing tough combinations that again studs may give your horse confidence.
 
Unstable fractured pedal bone is the only one that I can think of but then I don't know if there are other ways to stabilize the fracture.
 
Alyth said:
In a previous thread I was pulled up for stating that I thought all horses could go barefoot but not all owners can!! So I need this clarified!! What, in your opinion, can only be cured/helped with the use of shoes and that barefoot methods will not work? I must admit that so far I have not been convinced!!
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I think it's odd to describe being disagreed with (and in the case you are referring to it was me) as being "pulled up", as if I was some kind of teacher in school :D We disagreed is all.

Conditions I would shoe are:

- pedal bone fracture

- serious metabolic disease uncontrollable by diet and meds (Cushings, IR, EMS, EPSM)

- older horses with feet so corrupted by shoes that it would take a long time and a lot of pain for them to become conditioned to working without them

- riders who require studs.
 
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Emilieu said:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=581120

My thread about my horse who needed shoes to manage his flat feet / dropped pedal bone. Essential the vet advised me that with his feet in the condition that they are currently in, taking away his shoes would result in concussion which could bring on trauma induced laminitis.

X-rays that show how low his pedal bone is can be seen here:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=584953
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I have a set of xrays that look just as bad as yours. They belong to a horse who was probably highly insulin resistant and definitely had navicular disease. I sorted out his diet by a drastic removal of sugar which continues three years later. I sorted out his navicular with a barefoot rehab which had him out on a farm ride and jumping in 13 weeks (in boots) after 2 years of lameness, remedial shoes and every navicular medication known to the horse world.

He continues to be consistently sound, hunting, highly placed showing at National level, and winning elementary dressage. Three year anniversary coming up this spring.
 
I kind of agree with you in principal. However I would say shoes are necessary where the horse cannot be made comfortable without them, whether this be due to the owner not changing the diet or the horse taking longer to adapt due to lack of facilities to provide conformable surfaces in the early days.

Navicular I believe is not a need to shoe. Been there done that and now have sound barefoot horse despite concerns that with navicular, pedal osteitis and quite severe collateral ligament damage in both fronts he'd never be sound enough for full work again.

It's down to individuals and their circumstances I don't believe you can have a blanket one solution fits all.
 
cptrayes said:
I have a set of xrays that look just as bad as yours. They belong to a horse who was probably highly insulin resistant and definitely had navicular disease. I sorted out his diet by a drastic removal of sugar which continues three years later. I sorted out his navicular with a barefoot rehab which had him out on a farm ride and jumping in 13 weeks (in boots) after 2 years of lameness, remedial shoes and every navicular medication known to the horse world.

He continues to be consistently sound, hunting, highly placed showing at National level, and winning elementary dressage. Three year anniversary coming up this spring.
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Thanks CPTrayes. He definately does not have anything up with the navicular bone which is a blessing - it appears to purely be the angle and the inflamation of the pedal bone that is causing the issue. I'm making the diet changes now and following the hoofcare advice that the barefoot specialist i contacted gave me. Vet is insistant that the heartbars will correct the angle of the foot - next set of xrays due 24th Jan so i will see what is happening inside his hoof then and discuss treatment. He wants three shoeings in the heartbars by which time it will be Spring and he can no longer use the excuse of hard ground to prevent me removing the shoes. Hopefully the best case scenario is that the heart bars will redress the issues with the pedal bone and his feet will be in excellent shape to transition. Worst case scenario is that the heartbars will not have helped and vet will accept that barefoot transition will be the next port of call.
 
CPL, my mare has been barefoot (as are my other 5) since I bought her 10 years ago, until 18 yrs old but now the horn is quite affected too. She is on her second pair of Hoof-IT plastic shoes which are glued and 2 nails each side, she is so much more comfortable, they support her well and still doesn't have the concussion of steel shoes, so I feel I am doing what is best for her. Time will tell.
 
I looked into barefoot for mine, he has PSD in all 4 legs and negative angle pedal bones behind which were causing caudal foot pain. I decided to go with the remedial shoes because he was extremely uncomfortable without shoes ( think elephant balancing on a barrel ). It's quite possibly a degenerative condition and I'd like him to be as comfortable as possible until he isn't and then I'll make that decision. Barefoot rehab involves working the horse which I don't wish to do. We got him field sound and trotting up sound but sadly gone wrong in front again a few days ago.
 
Yertis said:
CPL, my mare has been barefoot (as are my other 5) since I bought her 10 years ago, until 18 yrs old but now the horn is quite affected too. She is on her second pair of Hoof-IT plastic shoes which are glued and 2 nails each side, she is so much more comfortable, they support her well and still doesn't have the concussion of steel shoes, so I feel I am doing what is best for her. Time will tell.
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My guess would be that your mare has age related metabolic issues. I'm sorry you have these problems, you are obviously doing your best.
 
pinklilly said:
I looked into barefoot for mine, he has PSD in all 4 legs and negative angle pedal bones behind which were causing caudal foot pain. I decided to go with the remedial shoes because he was extremely uncomfortable without shoes ( think elephant balancing on a barrel ). It's quite possibly a degenerative condition and I'd like him to be as comfortable as possible until he isn't and then I'll make that decision. Barefoot rehab involves working the horse which I don't wish to do. We got him field sound and trotting up sound but sadly gone wrong in front again a few days ago.
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I would not want to even try to fix a horse with PSD in all four legs. You have some serious issues there, I wish you well.
 
Mine does, he has a weird foot condition, (for whatever reason he is a bit of a scientifc puzzle) vets believe a form of bacteria eats/ destroys horn on a cellular level, if he gets a flare up it means he has zero horn growth and I mean zero! This can go on for months.... Over the years I have learnt how to manage the condition, but it can still rear it's ugly head. We tried going without shoes, but his made the problem worse as the horn was being worn down and not being replenished at a sufficient rate. On a good period we get growth but it's slow, as a result his pedal bones dropped on all four feet and I nearly lost him. He was retired for three years, but seems to have picked up over the last three years as he is sound and able to be hacked. He has very very thin soles too and the farrier has to be mega careful not to take off too much as otherwise he can bleed. If he loses a shoe he is crippled. it is nothing to do with diet, trust me we have tried EVERYTHING .... As he is now 21 I simply look on every day as a bonus, but for him to go barefoot would literally cripple him. My other ned is unshod, if they can cope brilliant. But it's not a cure all....
 
Nasty. He isn't Connemara is he?

When you say you have tried everything, did you remove him from grazing completely? I had to with one of mine, nightmare :( I'm not sniping, "no" is an OK answer, I just want to know for future reference.
 
cptrayes said:
I think it's odd to describe being disagreed with (and in the case you are referring to it was me) as being "pulled up", as if I was some kind of teacher in school :D We disagreed is all.

Conditions I would shoe are:

- pedal bone fracture

- serious metabolic disease uncontrollable by diet and meds (Cushings, IR, EMS, EPSM)

- older horses with feet so corrupted by shoes that it would take a long time and a lot of pain for them to become conditioned to working without them

- riders who require studs.
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LOL With all the knowledgeable people around I do feel like a student!! I thought the expression was pretty apt myself!!
 
Yes he had a periods off grass, several periods of box rest, also turn out into a sand paddock :) he seems to have responded well to decent, but restricted grazing. (I have my own electricfencing, so I am able to monitor the grass closely). He is a Dales, normally they have great feet, but they are more in keeping size wize with a fine 13 hander rather than a chunky Coblett. He is out during the day for six hours winter, and out at night during the summer in for six hours during the day. He is a perfect weight for his type, not over or underweight. I am very careful... I have had him for fifteen years, so I have plenty of time for trial and error...:p
 
I have my horse barefoot in winter, (October - March) but have to shoe in summer for studs. I have ridden him cross country etc barefoot, but he does slip and has gone down, so shoes and studs it is!
 
Nitro mouse said:
Yes he had a periods off grass, several periods of box rest, also turn out into a sand paddock :) he seems to have responded well to decent, but restricted grazing. (I have my own electricfencing, so I am able to monitor the grass closely). He is a Dales, normally they have great feet, but they are more in keeping size wize with a fine 13 hander rather than a chunky Coblett. He is out during the day for six hours winter, and out at night during the summer in for six hours during the day. He is a perfect weight for his type, not over or underweight. I am very careful... I have had him for fifteen years, so I have plenty of time for trial and error...:p
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It sounds like it's been hard work, he's lucky you stuck with him.
 
I had one that came to me with palmar foot pain and changes to the coffin bone. Remedial shoeing worked well for her until finally she was recovered well enough to have the shoes off. She's been unshod and continues in full work for almost a year now.
Several vets and farriers who knew her and some of whom had also seen the xrays advised me that remedial shoeing was the best option and it worked for her. Who knows, taking the shoes off might possibly have worked equally well,- I'll never know but she's fine now, so I'm glad we choose the path we did.
 
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