What could be causing on/off lameness

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mariebx19

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My 7 year old cob has had lameness problems for a while now.He has been seen by a few different vets who either say he is fine,or notices slight lameness and say it is nothing worrying and the best thing would be to keep him in work and give him some bute.To begin with i just put it down to behavioural problems.He will go months being good under saddle and seems to enjoy work then he will refuse to move/bolt/buck and just look uncomfortable so he gets turned away for a couple months,get another vet out before working him again and they say he is fine and enjoys work for a while before refusing to move etc again.The farrier said he was stiff on his back left (wasnt keeping it up) the last vet said front end and a physio said back right :/ When i got him,he used to try and kick me when i picked up his back right or went near it (i just thought this was behavioural but now thinking it could be related) He hates to work in the right rein and when being ridden/lunged will just turn to go left.He also trips occasionally ,mainly in trot and after jumps.Just wondering where do i go from here? What test would be best to try first? Going to share videos and hoping someone can pinpoint an area or something to start working with.

https://youtu.be/PiviIX1TaQI
https://youtu.be/WxwhIzsb3ps
https://youtu.be/VqOOo-97Ig0
 
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He is short and stiff behind and seems to work out of the obvious lameness once he starts moving, looks back right to me. Is your vet a decent equine vet as I think a lameness work up would show an issue. He may have something like a spavin starting to niggle or back issue both of which can cause mild on and off lameness but he isn't really working behind I suspect he is bi-laterally lame which mask the extent of the problem but you are right he is not sound. If it is a touch of arthritis it is best to keep him working sympathetically but I would be looking for a proper diagnosis as you may be able to nip something in the bud. In terms of physio is the person you use any good? Might be worth getting a Mctimony chiro to give him a once over. Good luck let us know how you get on.
 
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Yep, he is stiff Rt rein and probably not correct on the other.
If he were lunged on a hard surface this would be more evident.
I don't think that physio alone will help, he looks a willing type but has problems. His stride is always choppy, which may be due to conformation, but I think he should work better than this.
I think you will end up having to have a full work up at a vet horspital.
If your own vets have been given the oportunity to examine him and have effectively dismissed it, I would want him to go where they have full facilities, a full on equine vet practice.
I hope you have him insured, if not you have to determine how much you can afford to pay for a diagnosis.
He is only 7, and it is very disapointing that he has these problems, but until you know what you are dealing with you really can't go further forward.
Plenty of turnout is indicated, also can you get a little bit of weight off him?
 
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You need a specialist equine vet to do a lameness work up I would suspect there's more than one thing wrong with him , this horse is young and you need to a diagnosis as soon as you can as you risk contributing to permanent damage if you don't .
 
He is bilaterally lame behind, though the right hind is worse than the left. There is a lot of pain going on there and I would not be riding him. He is dragging both toes, not flexing his hocks and he has a reduced stride length/hind leg differential. I would suspect anything from the hocks upwards. Possibly more than one issue. If I were to have a guess, I would say PSD and sacroilliac dysfunction with possibly some back pain too. As others have said, get him a full lameness work up. Is he insured for vet fees? Because I have a feeling that nerve blocks would not be conclusive.
 
He has been seen by a massage therapist about 4 or 5 times and she always says he is tight around the back end,back and neck and after her session is more relaxed,not sure if still lame or not but does hold himself better.Yeah the physio is probably the most recommended one near me.Vets (from 3 different vets) have been out and never really take it further.He actually isnt insured (wish i had insured him now) so would like to start with something that hopefully isnt going to cost thousands.Dont even know if the vet will do anything until i have the money or at least most of it,will need to phone and discuss it all.Yeah is on 24/7 turnout.I have actually tried getting weight off him but hard with him not being in work,will be buying a grazing muzzle this week and hopefully he will keep it on.I cant always see lameness but going by his behaviour he worsens with exercise.After being turned away and brought back into work,he is working fine and willing then weeks/months later he starts not wanting to working so i guess that is due to pain.He isnt getting worked at all,hasnt since a few weeks after they riding viddeos were made.Thinking of sending the vets these videos and go from there.He is also the biggest wimp ever and and used to bolt away when being led and would worry that he would do that coming off a trailer at the vets and both are so close to busy roads so hoping to start with what can be done at the yard.Do you think a scan of the hocks would be best to start?
 
im not too sure actually been so long since he has been ridden.after being started agiain as sooon as he shows pain/discomfort i stop the work so up to that point he is good.His lameness doesnt always seem so easy to tell to me though so maybe when being ridden he is slightly lame but works through the pain (which is really horrible to think of)
 
mariebx19 said:
He has been seen by a massage therapist about 4 or 5 times and she always says he is tight around the back end,back and neck and after her session is more relaxed,not sure if still lame or not but does hold himself better.Yeah the physio is probably the most recommended one near me.Vets (from 3 different vets) have been out and never really take it further.He actually isnt insured (wish i had insured him now) so would like to start with something that hopefully isnt going to cost thousands.Dont even know if the vet will do anything until i have the money or at least most of it,will need to phone and discuss it all.Yeah is on 24/7 turnout.I have actually tried getting weight off him but hard with him not being in work,will be buying a grazing muzzle this week and hopefully he will keep it on.I cant always see lameness but going by his behaviour he worsens with exercise.After being turned away and brought back into work,he is working fine and willing then weeks/months later he starts not wanting to working so i guess that is due to pain.He isnt getting worked at all,hasnt since a few weeks after they riding viddeos were made.Thinking of sending the vets these videos and go from there.He is also the biggest wimp ever and and used to bolt away when being led and would worry that he would do that coming off a trailer at the vets and both are so close to busy roads so hoping to start with what can be done at the yard.Do you think a scan of the hocks would be best to start?
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I think an ultrasound scan of the hock ligaments would be a very good place to start as it's relatively cheap. I know someone who sent their horse to a top Equine hospital and he had all kinds of investigations including a bone scan and costing around £8k over 3 weeks. Now this was top of the range investigations and expertise. But they found he had PSD after nearly 3 weeks and that was diagnosed by ultrasound, the cheapest of all the diagnostic tools they used. I sometimes think these places purposely string out these investigations, profiting from livery and exercising the horses to produce the lameness in order to make the most money possible from insured equines.
 
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Not sure if they are any good but here are a few standing pictures to see his conformation.When at rest he does change what back feet he balances on alot of the time.Thanks think i will start with that,do you know if that can be done at my yard? or is it just depending on the vet

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I'd expect a good vet to diagnose on day one, the horse is not sound at the moment so no way would it need to be kept at livery for three weeks, a trip to horspital is required.
 
I can't believe that three vets found nothing! It is obvious within seconds that the horse is not sound. In answer to your question, many good equine practices have ultrasound machines that they can take to your yard. Mine do. It is inexpensive to do. I hope you get some answers, OP. I know it is very stressful when you know something is wrong but no one is taking it seriously.
 
They either say nothing or the last one said he was slightly lame but could be due to laminitis and just gave enough bute for 5 days and said to keep him in work.Hopefully the vet will come out even though he isnt insured and i wont have all the money but give them a call and dicuss it all with them.
 
mariebx19 said:
They either say nothing or the last one said he was slightly lame but could be due to laminitis and just gave enough bute for 5 days and said to keep him in work.Hopefully the vet will come out even though he isnt insured and i wont have all the money but give them a call and dicuss it all with them.
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Use a good equine practice and get a proper diagnosis, it is quite likely to be expensive, but you have little choice. Do that or stop riding him altogether.
Either way get some weight off him.
 
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I know this sounds horrible but if it takes a while for the lameness to come back after a period of rest then I would continue to work the horse otherwise he will be "sound" for the work up. I made this mistake with one of mine so when he was seen by 3 different vets, they all said sound (after he had had 6 weeks off). So I had to continue working him (stopping short of the full bronking sessions) until he was booked into AHT. At that point the lameness was very visible.

Excess weight won't help and you risk being dismissed as a laminitis case without a full proper work up.
 
Also if you tell us what area you in, someone on here maybe able to recommend a good equine practice & chiro's etc as you are clearly not getting the help & expertise you need from your current vet. Your horse is clearly struggling but doing his best to be helpful, he seems a very nice person but looked lame to me even in the video from his previous owner, he looks more fluid though and has clearly stiffened up since then.

A massage therapist won't be able to get to the root of the problem, my chiro works with the vet so she can talk to him about what she is finding. There are lots of good practitioners out there who can help you, hopefully someone on here will know a good person for you. Fingers crossed you get it sorted.
 
It is the most recommended vet i use.Ones near me are county vets,mckenzie bryson and marshall and barr and macmillan.He hasnt been ridden for a good few months and in no rush to start him again but just want it sorted now so i know he isnt in any pain.Not sure if i would like to ride him but might try if it would be more noticeable,not sure though.Will be buying a grazing muzzle for him.Was planning on buying one to get some weight off him then try again with small hacks through the woods at the yard and see how he went but since everyone is saying there is definately something there dont think i will anymore.
 
There is an equine clinic with full facilities 20 miles from you.
We may be getting the wrong impression here, if the vet was called to see your horse with the proviso that you could not spend any money on further diagnostics there would be a limit to what they can do.
However, if they suggested the horse might have laminitis, and said no more that that, I would be astounded.
 
Oh OP i feel for your it's never nice. I agree with the earlier poster saying to keep him in some kind of work so that the lameness is apparent (if he looks better when he's rested). Good luck and lesson learnt- if you don't have a few k sitting in the bank (or a credit card) for emergency vet bills or even non emergency ones like this, insure your horse. It will give you piece of mind.
 
mariebx19 said:
Not sure if they are any good but here are a few standing pictures to see his conformation.When at rest he does change what back feet he balances on alot of the time.Thanks think i will start with that,do you know if that can be done at my yard? or is it just depending on the vet

11088506_1601437593406692_1382722998840358500_o_zpsypvfdqjy.jpg

11206597_1611901875693597_3675017764850377018_o_zpsfb97fdcg.jpg

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11009857_1598392863711165_2536883245943168086_o_zpsh4dhmjeb.jpg

11004630_1605388789678239_6199310801093713815_o_zpshoyiliuz.jpg
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OP btw, my 8 year old had hock spavin. He passed flexions of both hinds and had lameness that blocked the hoof. However as he was not in work and (I assume) his hocks got stiffer, he started to switch between which back leg he was resting at least once a minute. Then he became almost impossible to pick out his back feet. Bone scan, hock x rays showed the spavin- albiet mild.
 
Michen said:
Oh OP i feel for your it's never nice. I agree with the earlier poster saying to keep him in some kind of work so that the lameness is apparent (if he looks better when he's rested). Good luck and lesson learnt- if you don't have a few k sitting in the bank (or a credit card) for emergency vet bills or even non emergency ones like this, insure your horse. It will give you piece of mind.
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It will be too late, the horse has a pre existing condition, as evidenced by videos and vet examinations. This will be excluded, and it pretty much means vet insurance will cover very little.
 
Bonkers2 said:
It will be too late, the horse has a pre existing condition, as evidenced by videos and vet examinations. This will be excluded, and it pretty much means vet insurance will cover very little.
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For this condition, but in the future with another horse and to cover this one for any accidents/injuries. If he was to run through a fence in the field and it required a fairly hefty bill then unless you are willing to have the horse put down rather than spend the money to fix it, you need to either be insured or have a credit card/funds available.
 
Bonkers2-Not too sure what you mean but i have not told the vets that he isnt insured.Will be phoning on monday and hopefully they can give me an estimate on prices but asked a couple of months ago and i got a reply saying they couldnt tell me as it depends on what joint etc is needing x-rayd.

Yeah i will have him in work for a week or 2 before he is to be seen again,depends on what they say about a payment plan.I know,all my pets will definately be insured now.Just heard too many people say that they didnt get the help from insurance company when needed so put me off.No i didnt have him vetted.Just been looking up on bone spavin in hock and does sound like that but i suppose most things causing lameness could have the same symptoms.Do you think i should try light hacking on soft ground (because being kept in work is best for this) or just leave him on turnout as i dont know what the cause of his pain/lameness is ?
 
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