What do I do with my loopy horse?!

[Mazz]

Hi all,

Have had yet another accident on my bonkers horse - think this may just be the one that will push me over the edge. We were hacking out in a small group yesterday and he decided that a scary rustling leaf was enough of an excuse to go bombing off downhill, jump a five bar gate and then bolt straight onto a road before chucking me off (please don't suggest one rein stops, different tack, etc - he will not stop for ANYTHING as I have found out from the hedges/dogwalkers we have/nearly have run straight through). We have spent endless time trying to get him over this spooky behavior (anything will set him off - usually any noise, no matter how small, that he's not expecting) with no progress, and it has finally gotten to the point that I have been told he is dangerous and too unpredictable for me to rely on. I have had others try him out and have all resulted in the same problem - uncontrollable bolting, though he is usually manageable in company.

Back, teeth, tack etc have been checked - as far as we can tell, it is not pain related. He is an absolute sweety to handle, a right gentleman with perfect manners, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I love him to bits but it is becoming obvious that if I carry on with him like this I will be doing neither of us any favours, so I am now looking for a loan home for him. I would like him to go to somebody a lot stronger than me who has the time to give him what he deserves, at 4ft11 I am far too overhorsed by a 15.3hh horse!

The question is firstly - has anybody experienced a horse like this before? Did you overcome it and if so, how?

Secondly, if I were to loan him, what should I loan him out as? I don't want to put others off with my history with him, but if he would make a manageable project (at their own risk!) then I would be more than happy for somebody to make the most of him. I would hate to label him 'dangerous' if this is something that can be sorted out. I'm just worried about anybody else getting hurt as I now know I am not the first.

Thank you all, all these worries are starting to drive me mad, bloomin horses.

 

[LaurenBay]

How is he to school? If he is schooled to a decent level and doesn't disply any danerous behaviour, I would look at a dressage/jumping home. Chances are they won't want to hack. If he is just as bad in the school, I wouldn't be passing him on at all. If I could I would retire him at grass, if unable to do that I would consider PTS, although I would perhaps get a professional in first to hack to see if it made any difference.

 

[cheeryplatypus]

My looper wasn't quite at your level but I am small at 7 1/2 stone and he is 15.2hh IDx who can set his neck most effectively! We went back to basics and did loads of groundwork for months. My friend walked out with us when hacking. I got better at reading when he was in danger zone of not listening to me so I deal with things earlier now well before he gets to bolting stage! He still isn't the sort of horse I am completely confident on but I can manage him much more safely.

Any chance of getting a behaviouralist to have a look at yours before there is a serious accident? (I got my hand galloped over, broke my leg, tore my hip cartilage and have needed three hats in the last five years

 

[Mazz]

How is he to school? If he is schooled to a decent level and doesn't disply any danerous behaviour, I would look at a dressage/jumping home. Chances are they won't want to hack. If he is just as bad in the school, I wouldn't be passing him on at all. If I could I would retire him at grass, if unable to do that I would consider PTS, although I would perhaps get a professional in first to hack to see if it made any difference.

He is still very jumpy and will bolt across the school if a dogwalker goes past the hedge or he hears something unsettling. We now know he has come from a dodgy past so did think whether to loan him out as a companion, out of the saddle he is an absolute dream to be around. Thank you for your advice, I will see if I can get somebody in to take a look.

 

[pinklilly]

What's he like in a school? I wouldn't be hacking him out and definitely not passing him on to someone to hack, the roads are too busy, what if he bolts in front of a timberwagon? Or injures an OAP walking their dog or a child?

 

[Mazz]

My looper wasn't quite at your level but I am small at 7 1/2 stone and he is 15.2hh IDx who can set his neck most effectively! We went back to basics and did loads of groundwork for months. My friend walked out with us when hacking. I got better at reading when he was in danger zone of not listening to me so I deal with things earlier now well before he gets to bolting stage! He still isn't the sort of horse I am completely confident on but I can manage him much more safely.

Any chance of getting a behaviouralist to have a look at yours before there is a serious accident? (I got my hand galloped over, broke my leg, tore my hip cartilage and have needed three hats in the last five years

Oh my god, you poor thing, unbelievably brave! I would love to give it a go but he has proved he is not fussed about taking off in front of a car so I am seriously questioning whether my faith in him will improve and if I will be capable of handing his strength. Don't want to give up on him too easily but will do whatever is best for the poor lad. Thanks though, will get a second opinion - lovely to hear there is often light at the end of the tunnel though!

 

[Elsbells]

Some horses are just unridable, while others just seem to settle in a totally different rider in a different environment.

Has he always been like this? Do you have much of his history? What are you feeding? How much turnout and work does he get?

Yeah, and I agree with the other posters, a pro would be good although as always, think that horses should be fun and not a test of endurance.

I hope your ok and wish you well, whatever way you decide to choose.

 

[Mazz]

What's he like in a school? I wouldn't be hacking him out and definitely not passing him on to someone to hack, the roads are too busy, what if he bolts in front of a timberwagon? Or injures an OAP walking their dog or a child?

Has had me off in the school through bolting across it when he hears something he doesn't like - totally unshakable during groundwork though. We have had a few close calls with unfortunate bystanders so won't be taking that risk again - not worth it. Thank you

 

[Littlelegs]

Is this the same horse you posted about with the exact same problems in may & were going to get a trainer to? And again in June were going to get a trainer to? And yet meantime despite knowing it was dangerous to hack you've continued? I can only conclude you've either had a few different excellent trainers out who have said its beyond them to solve, in which case why would a loaner be able to sort him? Or, you've not bothered to get any help & are hoping someone will do it for free whilst also paying for the horses upkeep. Great deal I'm sure, except anyone experienced enough to really solve it isn't silly enough to agree its a good deal.

 

[Mazz]

Some horses are just unridable, while others just seem to settle in a totally different rider in a different environment.

Has he always been like this? Do you have much of his history? What are you feeding? How much turnout and work does he get?

Yeah, and I agree with the other posters, a pro would be good although as always, think that horses should be fun and not a test of endurance.

I hope your ok and wish you well, whatever way you decide to choose.

Thanks for your kind words - we do not know all that much about him other than that the 'private seller' who sold him to us was apparently inclined to doping horses before a sale and had only had him for three days prior to us viewing him. He has apparently been through our local sales a couple of times, passport shows he has been through a fair few homes in his 9 years and he has evident face/neck scarring from having been tethered (is very headshy as a result of this) - he was significantly thin and in bad nick when he came to us (my fault for feeling sorry for the poor mite - I know!).

He is in at night from 6pm, out by 8 for all day turnout (out all summer) - he is fed on a lowcal chaff (molasses free/low sugar) with his cocktail of calmers and only ever has a very small token feed. He is lunged daily and then hacked as often as I can (usually at least 2/3 times a week ... whenever I can get the company to hack!). He is not at all wired, strong or hyper until I am in the saddle.

 

[Mazz]

Is this the same horse you posted about with the exact same problems in may & were going to get a trainer to? And again in June were going to get a trainer to? And yet meantime despite knowing it was dangerous to hack you've continued? I can only conclude you've either had a few different excellent trainers out who have said its beyond them to solve, in which case why would a loaner be able to sort him? Or, you've not bothered to get any help & are hoping someone will do it for free whilst also paying for the horses upkeep. Great deal I'm sure, except anyone experienced enough to really solve it isn't silly enough to agree its a good deal.

I have had instructors in to help me out with him - I will admit I am a poor student who can't afford the schooling fees for a trainer and this is completely my own fault - this is why I am reconsidering my situation. I do not aim to hurt anybody else or him and I am certainly not standing by and doing nothing anymore. I admit I've been stubborn and am causing nothing but harm due to the fact I am incapable. I was asking because I feel I am doing wrong by him by labeling him as 'useless' when it is most likely me who is. I do not expect anybody to sort him out for free and then demand him back. He would be a companion or whatever else with us paying any vet fees and they would be his for however long to do with what they wish. I apologise for not making that clear.

 

[pinklilly]

Having been in the unfortunate position of trying to save a badly injured horse that was out of control before having him destroyed 24 hours later and having to inform owner / rider who was in hospital with crushed vertebrae in his back please be very careful.

 

[kizmund]

When I got her my horse didn't really enjoy hacking but liked school work, jumping and going to shows, clinics etc. When hacking she would walk out good as gold but turn around and run for home, I got her out hacking by building up her trust in the school and hacking her in draw reins, some may argue that this was a bit harsh but her behaviour was dangerous and it's the only thing that stopped her as she didn't have the option to whip round....now she hacks out in a snaffle and seems to enjoy it.

Butttt...what you are decribing isn't just cheeky behaviour or separation anxiety.

TBH OP if what he's doing is as bad as you describe then he is truly bolting as he will go through anything. If he continues to do this whilst out hacking then there is no telling what sort of damage he could do.

If I were you I would loan him out as a companion, otherwise I would turn him away for 6months-1year and have him restarted by a professional.

My post may sound a bit dramatic but what you describe sounds terrifying and someone is going to get hurt.

Good luck

 

[The Xmas Furry]

The question is firstly - has anybody experienced a horse like this before? Did you overcome it and if so, how?

You wont like this, but I did have a genuine bolter come in for re-hab.
It was shot within a week as it was too dangerous to ride & would not have ever been a field pet.

Secondly, if I were to loan him, what should I loan him out as? I don't want to put others off with my history with him, but if he would make a manageable project (at their own risk!) then I would be more than happy for somebody to make the most of him. I would hate to label him 'dangerous' if this is something that can be sorted out. I'm just worried about anybody else getting hurt as I now know I am not the first.

Thank you all, all these worries are starting to drive me mad, bloomin horses.

Please do NOT put a genuinely dangerous horse out on loan.
You have stated it is dangerous, will bolt at the slightest thing - why on earth would you want to risk someone else's life on him?

 

[Puppy]

he has proved he is not fussed about taking off in front of a car

If that truly is the case then I wouldn't be looking to loan him out; Someone could be seriously hurt, or even killed.

I would look at getting a professional to assess him and see if they think it is just you being overhorsed, or if he is a true bolter.

 

[Littlelegs]

Unless its nearby & you can keep a close eye on him, be very wary of loan homes. Companions are ten a penny at the moment. But somebody may decide he's worth drugging & selling, or decide to just ride him anyway. I wouldn't loan as a riding project. Anyone experienced would buy if they wanted a project. And if someone gets hurt it would be you responsible morally at least. Other option is only ride in private enclosed areas till you can afford a trainer. Or keep as a pet. Pts is preferable to selling on in this case, but seems ott when in all likelihood a good trainer could sort him.

 

[meesha]

Is it worth contacting your local hunt and being totally honest and offering him as a hunt horse if they can resolve the issues - they will be totally honest with you about him and very equipped to handle difficult/strong horses - they would also be in a position to have him pts without having to return him to you (I know this sounds callous but I am trying to be realistic). It may be that you are nervous (and rightly so) and transmitting this to the horse and therefore horse has no confidence and cannot cope with situations that arise and loses the plot.

The only other 2 possibilies for me would be to loan out as a field ornament (you would have to be really really careful that you made sure no one ever tried to ride him as littlelegs states) or pts.

If you can afford to turn him away for 6 months if your only other option is pts it may be worth doing so as he could have an underlying issue which may be resolved by a little field rest.

If he truely is a bolter I personally would NOT hack him out again !

 

[Mazz]

You wont like this, but I did have a genuine bolter come in for re-hab.
It was shot within a week as it was too dangerous to ride & would not have ever been a field pet.



Please do NOT put a genuinely dangerous horse out on loan.
You have stated it is dangerous, will bolt at the slightest thing - why on earth would you want to risk someone else's life on him?

Sorry if I am being a bit dim - do you mean he would also been unsafe as a companion? I have never had a hint of trouble from him out of the saddle and am not doubting your words but am very unsettled by the prospect of putting him to sleep when he still has a decent quality of life - at the same time I do agree with you about the risk of others. I will not just offload him on somebody else and take a risk, don't worry!

kizmund - Thanks - I will not be taking him anywhere public - we have been limiting ourselves to private land and quiet tracks as of late but think this is also too much of a risk as he can cover some distance if he does go. Not dramatic at all - I need to face my mistakes, so thank you!

pinklilly - I will not be risking him or anybody else anymore - thank you, bit of any eyeopener.

Littlelegs - Thanks for the a warning, he would most likely be going to live with a close friend as a companion to her gelding if he were to leave us to be companion only (which is all he will be unless I get the guts to sort him out!). Will look to get somebody in to give me an honest opinion, if nothing else.

Puppy - Would seem I am being a massive pansy about it - I get annoyed when I hear of careless drivers killing others and I suppose in a way it would be just as irresponsible for me to hack him out in public. I will be getting somebody in before any rash decisions are made - thank you.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Sorry if I am being a bit dim - do you mean he would also been unsafe as a companion? I have never had a hint of trouble from him out of the saddle and am not doubting your words but am very unsettled by the prospect of putting him to sleep when he still has a decent quality of life - at the same time I do agree with you about the risk of others. I will not just offload him on somebody else and take a risk, don't worry!
.

I meant the animal was not a suitable horse to be left in a field for the rest of its life.
It could not be left on its own in a yard or field without major stress. It could not cope outside 24/7, nor stabled for long periods.
Most people are not able to have a field ornament such as that type for another 20 odd years.

Many of us are willing to overlook problems if the horse works etc, but as this horse could not be sat on without a problem occurring, we did the sensible thing for him.

 

[slumdog]

Nothing to add but just wanted to say I really feel for you it's horrible when you can only do so much to help them. Good luck with whatever you decided. X

 

[TandD]

you seem to have a very sad situation
im not sure if your saw the youtube clip of the imperial horse dealer? with 'tic toc? (i think :/) who seemed to be 'taught' to buck when whipped',may be something simliar has happened to your boy. 'taugh' to run due to a beating for spooking? and by reacting the way he does he gets rid of the scaryness on top (i use the word taugh in a loose sence...may be 'learnt behavour' would be more appropriate? you horse genuinly seems to run for fear, rather than a good game <- they normally stop.
does he calm down/stop once you are off/fall off?

i would doubt that this is reversible, and the more pressure, force and fear you put through him the worse he will get.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Some horses just can't be ridden,often for some kind of health reason. I had one many years ago, we kept her as a companion for years but were in a position to do just that, if you're not then pts may well be the best answer.
But before you do that, I suggest that you stop feeding him anything except hay/lage - no chaff,no supplements/calmers, no treats of any kind. This is because your chaff may well contain eithersoya/or alfalfa and supplements & treats often have some kind of filler in them. We've had trouble with all sorts of supplemnts causing even the most sensible horses to become loopy.
Give it 3 weeks and if there's no improvement, I'm afraid that you will have a difficult decision to make, unless your friend can take him as a companion.

 

[Mazz]

Is it worth contacting your local hunt and being totally honest and offering him as a hunt horse if they can resolve the issues - they will be totally honest with you about him and very equipped to handle difficult/strong horses - they would also be in a position to have him pts without having to return him to you (I know this sounds callous but I am trying to be realistic). It may be that you are nervous (and rightly so) and transmitting this to the horse and therefore horse has no confidence and cannot cope with situations that arise and loses the plot.

The only other 2 possibilies for me would be to loan out as a field ornament (you would have to be really really careful that you made sure no one ever tried to ride him as littlelegs states) or pts.

If you can afford to turn him away for 6 months if your only other option is pts it may be worth doing so as he could have an underlying issue which may be resolved by a little field rest.

If he truely is a bolter I personally would NOT hack him out again !

I was very anti-pts, but if it spares anybody of danger and him of the stress that is fair enough. Am I right in thinking horses can be freeze-marked for loss of use? I would definitely do this if possible if he were to become a companion. I will get somebody to look at not just him but also myself - I think as much as I try and force myself to be a calm and confident rider, he must know I am quite the opposite. I would not want to do any wrong by him if it is just me who is the problem. Thanks for being so honest.

The Fuzzy Furry - I understand now that I am being incredibly blind in my way of thinking that if a horse is in no pain there is no point in PTS - that doesn't ensure quality of life for the future in any way. What you say makes an unbelievable amount of sense in that it would not be fair on any party - thank you.

slumdog - Means a lot, thank you, I hate the idea of giving up on a horse and don't feel ready to do so yet but it does get to a point where something has to change.

The jist of replies seems to be that it would be worth it to get somebody totally impartial to come out, look at him and be brutally honest - I will do just that rather than put anybody at any risk - thanks all.

 

[Mazz]

you seem to have a very sad situation
im not sure if your saw the youtube clip of the imperial horse dealer? with 'tic toc? (i think :/) who seemed to be 'taught' to buck when whipped',may be something simliar has happened to your boy. 'taugh' to run due to a beating for spooking? and by reacting the way he does he gets rid of the scaryness on top (i use the word taugh in a loose sence...may be 'learnt behavour' would be more appropriate? you horse genuinly seems to run for fear, rather than a good game <- they normally stop.
does he calm down/stop once you are off/fall off?

i would doubt that this is reversible, and the more pressure, force and fear you put through him the worse he will get.

I have seen it - as soon as I come off him he will stop, turn back to face me and wait. He is tricky to ride in anything other than walk - trot, canter, gallop are a challenge as he tucks his bum in and plummets forward, almost as if he believes that if he is running (even when asked to), he has to be afraid. Thanks though - I hadn't even thought this type of behaviour was taught - horrifying.

Pearlsasinger - I have been nagging and nagging for less fed, I have a feeling when I am not there people do feel sorry for him - he is certainly not underweight in any way! I didn't consider nothing but hay, but will trial that out as nothing will be done with him immediately anyway! Thanks

 

[cornbrodolly]

We do have a horse similar to this. More of a rearer/plunger/very hot than bolter when out hacking , only my OH ,[ a professional horseman] will ride him. It took months of slow remedial work to make him sane for most rides, but if the worst happens eg other horses come up behind at speed etc, the habits are still there. On the ground he s a lovely horse, and top show quality, I m hoping to show him in veterans when he s in his mid 20s as he might be ok by then!
Without a v experienced and unflappable rider these horses a re indeed dangerous. However, this horse is now a medium level dressage horse, and is [ mostly!] calm and obediant in the ring. You d be suprised how many dressage horses have found their career there because they arent safe doing much else!
You may be lucky and find someone in dressage willing to take a chance on your horse- though it would depend on his paces etc.
I would take issue that a horse not in pain should not be put down. No horse is worth a human serious injury , and when a horse of mine started behaving oddly[? brain tumour] , and then kicked me in the head , the hunt was called and horse PTS. I never felt I made the wrong decision.

 

[Maesfen]

Hi all,

Have had yet another accident on my bonkers horse - think this may just be the one that will push me over the edge. We were hacking out in a small group yesterday and he decided that a scary rustling leaf was enough of an excuse to go bombing off downhill, jump a five bar gate and then bolt straight onto a road before chucking me off (please don't suggest one rein stops, different tack, etc - he will not stop for ANYTHING as I have found out from the hedges/dogwalkers we have/nearly have run straight through). We have spent endless time trying to get him over this spooky behavior (anything will set him off - usually any noise, no matter how small, that he's not expecting) with no progress, and it has finally gotten to the point that I have been told he is dangerous and too unpredictable for me to rely on. I have had others try him out and have all resulted in the same problem - uncontrollable bolting, though he is usually manageable in company.

Back, teeth, tack etc have been checked - as far as we can tell, it is not pain related. He is an absolute sweety to handle, a right gentleman with perfect manners, it just doesn't make any sense to me. I love him to bits but it is becoming obvious that if I carry on with him like this I will be doing neither of us any favours, so I am now looking for a loan home for him. I would like him to go to somebody a lot stronger than me who has the time to give him what he deserves, at 4ft11 I am far too overhorsed by a 15.3hh horse!

The question is firstly - has anybody experienced a horse like this before? Did you overcome it and if so, how?

Secondly, if I were to loan him, what should I loan him out as? I don't want to put others off with my history with him, but if he would make a manageable project (at their own risk!) then I would be more than happy for somebody to make the most of him. I would hate to label him 'dangerous' if this is something that can be sorted out. I'm just worried about anybody else getting hurt as I now know I am not the first.

Thank you all, all these worries are starting to drive me mad, bloomin horses.

If he's as bad as you and more experienced riders/trainers say, I can't believe that you are willing to pass this horse on to someone else then in the same breath say you don't want anyone to get hurt.
From my experience, horses like this just do not get better or cured from this behaviour. Yes, they might improve a bit but they are always waiting for just that small trigger to set them off again which makes them so dangerous especially in this day and age of so much traffic about which it could run into or cause a serious accident - which you/rider would be liable for as you know of his behaviour.
When a horse has no standards of own personal safety as this one seems to be, then there really should be only one outcome as wherever you place him, you will never be sure that he won't be passed on yet again and cause more damage/death in his path.
It's just not worth passing on a tragedy that's waiting to happen.

 

[horseandshoes77]

op have you thought of using ear plugs, you say its noises that usually sets him off, well our horse was like this when younger and very dangerous out hacking especially near roads so I made earplugs out of cotton wool and old tights and put fly veil over... completely different horse ! He had them all the time for hacking for about a year then we started taking him out without them and he was soo much better, only needs them if going to be hacking on busy roads, cheap and cheerful but worked a treat

 

[bounce]

Am I right in thinking horses can be freeze-marked for loss of use? I would definitely do this if possible if he were to become a companion.

You can get horses marked as loss of use but this is only done for insurance purposes. It does not mean that he will not be ridden by anyone. There are many horses out there that are freeze marked for loss of use and still being ridden and even competed successfully. The freezemark would be useless in this case.

The only way of absolutely guaranteeing your horse wouldn't be ridden again is to PTS. If he is a confirmed bolter and you were to put him out on loan as a companion but someone decided to try riding him and get injured then I'd be very concerned at the potential law suit. You would have to have a very carefully worded loan contract drawn up and if I were you I would seek the advice of an equine solicitor to do this.

Get some professional advice from a respected trainer and go from there.

I have a horse that is a field ornament at only 14 and he is too dangerous to be ridden but the only way he will ever be leaving my yard is on the back of the collection wagon. He's a fab companion horse but I would not feel comfortable letting him go anywhere else when someone could just try to get on him.

 

[AmyMay]

Obviously you can't continue to ride this horse, nor can you sell it or loan it.

So keep it as a field ornament or have it put down.

 

[horseandshoes77]

op your question did you overcome it...answer yes... my boy was def dangerous would bolt into traffic, even went through a barb wire fence one day was terrified of own shadow so everything set him off , everyone told me to pts including a very well respected horseman whos been breaking horses for 40 years, horse is now ridden by my novice hubby and was ridden by my daughter who was 12 ... was it easy .. nope ... did it happen over night... nope !

him ridden by 12 year old never thought wed see the day lol