What do people really dislike so much about Parelli?

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Sunflowers

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Parelli: I'm still on the fence, so to speak.

I'm open minded about some of the positives; such as the charming 'games' structure of educating your horse.

And yet even mentioning the word 'Parelli' sends some people into orbit! Perhaps even more than the word 'Rollkur', if that's possible!

Interested to hear informed opinions (not just the "there was a mental lady that did 'parelli' at our yard.." type stories, but more about the qualified 'Parelli Professional' guys, or Pat and Linda themselves.
 
It is nothing different to what a good horseman already does but it's wrapped up in fancy packaging and sold as an ethos when actually with horses there are many roads to Rome.

I do notice that the most extreme Parelli devotees never seem to actually ride their horse. So I am kind of convinced its for people to scared to ride.
 
The good stuff he does can be achieved by anyone with a good 'horsey sense' and without the expensive DVD's, cucumber sticks and rope halters.

But there is also some of it that I just don't understand HOW it could work.

And then there is the 'Catwalk' incident.
 
For me I like some of the basic horsemanship principles but agree this can be taught by any good horsemanship person. Never considered it with my old horse but youngster wasnt trusting to start with and that showed massively whilst riding so I did a bit of join up stuff with him on the floor and it helped loads.

Also agree that most people who are really into natural horsemanship never seem to ride! I would never buy into it though with actual money, they have capitilised on what was a niche in the market and are clearly doing well out of it. I know totally different but I kinda see it as scienctology / kaballah - you shouldnt have to pay a fortune to "see the light" so to speak!

She is in the UK next month and I'm going to the show she is at anyway so figured I'd watch at least part of her demo and make my own mind up from there (then look for the free / cheaper alternatives) ;)
 
Mainly my experience with parelli people is

They tend not to ride their horses
The horses tend to be rude and pushy
They try to ram NH down your throat
If you discipline your horse at all you're treated like the devil.
I think it is mostly done by people that are terrified of their horses and is done poorly so most of the Time the horse (and owners) look totally confused whilst playing their games and just become more frustrated with each other.
I don't like to follow any one thing blindly because I think you should use a combination of whatever works for your horse
I think some of the videos I've seen of them working is disgraceful and I don't think that anyone should use them as an example ( unless as an example of how not to behave)

That's all I've got of the top of my head but I could keep going if I thought about it
 
Jenni_ said:
The good stuff he does can be achieved by anyone with a good 'horsey sense' and without the expensive DVD's, cucumber sticks and rope halters.

But there is also some of it that I just don't understand HOW it could work.

And then there is the 'Catwalk' incident.
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The Catwalk Video was the nail in the coffin for me - disgusting.
 
Totally agree that they never ride, and I also think people use it as an excuse.

A girl at my old yard bought a horse that was great, she was out jumping clear BE90 first couple outings with girl sat on board as passenger, then started to put in the odd refusual, within a few months the horse was deemed "unrideable" and she started doing loads of natural stuff with it because the issue was 'clearly in its head'...horse still refused (because girl hung on to its mouth and didnt use any legs going into fence), horse was then sold to a dealer. New horse arrived from friend of friend on loan, been clear on about 10 outings previous season, never outside of top 10, repeat same as previous horse, clear 1st half seson now considered "impossible to get around xc course"...horse being given back to owner who is now trying to fix new problems... sorry that was probably a bit off topic!

That said I think there are elements of it which are great and can compliment normal riding for sure and I do think it can be used to address certain ridden issues, especially that of trust between horse and rider. But it doesnt make you a better rider, and I would never consider parting with money for all the different stages.

If anyone is desperate for a horse that follows you around you can borrow mine, just give her a treat at the gate and walk around the field for an hour (I was looking for a shoe) and she'll follow the whole way. :D
 
I like the fact it encourages people to think about working with their horses, and I like the fact it's made "natural" horsemanship much more widespread. I like how it has a stepped training programme that encourages people to improve their skills over time.

I don't like how commercialised it is (Scientology an apt comparison). I don't see how it can possibly work with every horse. People who follow it come across (not all, I hasten to add) as a cult.

Lots of Parelli types don't seem to ride. This of itself isn't that worrying, but what is worrying is that many did want to ride when they bought their horse but for whatever reason the relationship encountered problems, and now the followers seem to be try to convince themselves that they never wanted to ride anyway :confused: Parelli seems to be an excuse for some (not all)?

Admittedly there are some who genuinely don't want to ride and never have, which is fine!

Each to their own. I know plenty of lovely people who do Parelli and obviously I would never judge someone for it, even though I don't really want to do it myself. Much the same as endurance, which looks like far too much hard work for me :p
 
Its a bit fur coat and no knickers for me. All ok on the surface but when you delve a little deeper there's no substance. Good horsemanship is being able to adapt and work with your horse in any given situation and apply whatever principles suit at the time :)
 
Parelli in particular, and to varying degrees other NH schools, encourage an air of superiority amongst practitioners.
People who adopt this stuff invariably seem to have problems because of their own lack of experience or ability, but it's easier to blame the existing system (as if there is ever one way of doing things). It generates an us and them mentality which is ridiculous and usually based on ignorance. That gets people's backs up and that's what people dislike IMO.

(that and the whole hitting the horse round the head with a metal clip for it's own good - obviously)
 
Its just all very ...

'Oh my horse won't load! Lets delve into its mind and understand WHY he will not load, I will speak to him with my body language and he will respond at the tickle of my cucumber stick, forget all his fears and spring up the ramp!'

Erm- no.

A good horseman will be able to tell right away if a horse won't do something out of (a) fear or (b) stubborness / green-ness.

ANd be able to work with it accordingly. My experience with Parelli folk etc is that all horses that have issues, even the smallest ones (like not picking up its foot) have to be worked with to find the inner problem etc. I agree some horses really DO need a degree of understanding, but most just need a bit of work and a firm, patient person!

and all this - 'if he kicks this ball back to me then he will deffo be on the way to recovery' ho hum...
 
It's the labelling and 'god-like' status of it all that I don't like. Any decent horseman should be able to read a horse and work out why they don't want to do something that you'd like them to do....it doesn't need a fancy pants name or technique!
 
I think it's like anything in life, everything is fine in moderation. It's another tool that is available to use should it be needed for a particular horse/handler/situation. I think most sensible people use a varity of methods when training their horses from parelli type understanding to a well timed wallop depending on the situation.
What I don't agree with is the branding of the method, praying on the uneducated novice horse owners getting them to hand over good money and brain washing them into thinking it is the ONLY way to train a horse. It's immoral.
 
I'll admit I dont know much about parelli but after reading these posts I cant stop picturing someone beating and/or stroking their horses with a cucumber... :p

I think linda might be at a show I am going to next month so i'll keep a look out for any vegetable action..!
 
LEC said:
It is nothing different to what a good horseman already does but it's wrapped up in fancy packaging and sold as an ethos when actually with horses there are many roads to Rome.

I do notice that the most extreme Parelli devotees never seem to actually ride their horse. So I am kind of convinced its for people to scared to ride.
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Ohhh you've hit the nail on the head... spot on in my opinion too :)

We use to have a lady at the yard who use to bounce a huge ball around (like the ones people do excercises on). Her horse was snorting at the ball and terrified but she had the nerve to tell me off when I got off to show my horse that his own shadow was nothing to be scared of!!!
I asked her if she wanted to show me how to ride my horse, but strangley she delined :D
 
Huge, massive, enormous disclaimer . . . most of the Parelli hate I've encountered has been on here. IRL most people I've met have had a "live and let live" attitude, and many horsey people I know never watched the "Catwalk" video or had even heard about it.

So . . . what is that people dislike? Honestly, I think it's the aura of exclusivity and zealotry that some (not all) Parelli followers exude. It puts people's backs up. On the other hand, I do think those who are against Parelli perpetuate this "them and us" dynamic.

I know it's not exactly a scientific survey sample, but I have three friends who practice Parelli and have for years. None of them are particularly pushy or zealous about Parelli practices. All of them ride their horses - although not as often as whose who don't practice Parelli but that's because they do other things with them. Two of the horses are alert, bright and confident . . . one (I handle him on a daily basis b/c I turn him out every morning) is a skitty, unconfident boy but I honestly can't say whether that's down to Parelli or just who he is.

I'm neither pro or anti Parelli . . . I think there are some valuable tools to take away from some of the practices . . . but I'm with others who find the "cult" taken as a whole off-putting . . . but I'm able to rub along perfectly well with my Parelli friends without them hating me b/c I tell my horse off and vice versa.

P
 
I think it has its place... bear with me... Some of the basic ground work it teaches both horse and Human are good. But as LEC says 'there are many roads to Rome' parelli is not the only way to teach a horse. There are some fantastic other NH trainers out there that can offer the same. Also a lot of basic groundwork is just common sense.

As parelli goes up 'the stages' i think it starts to get a bit commerciallised. A lot of the stuff they do. Getting into the horses mind etc. why??? Parelli ends up being a 'name' that everyone knows and can buy into rather than what it actually is. Everyone wants to be able to ride their horse with just a halter / bareback and no hat... don't they? :rolleyes:

A lot of people who do parrelli just dabble in it. But for it to be a 'method of training' i think it has to be followed from start to finnish. Not just used when the owner feels like 'playing' with their horse.

I also find that a lot of people whom practice the method of parelli very rarely ride their horses, makes you question as to why they don't. But apparently in the programme (if followed correctly) you HAVE to do all this playing and fiddling on the ground before you EVEN think about putting a saddle on the horses back. Let alone riding it. So maybe then everyone has only seen the early stages of parellii? Then when it is ridden it is supposed to beable to already put itself into a frame/work correctly even though the rider has only sat on it a handfull of times :p

I'm not either for nor against parelli... each to their own. I'd just rather get on and ride my horse. Just because you ride your horse doesn't mean that it misses out on any groundwork. Surely the groundwork is done everyday when handled anyway? Neither him nor I are worse of for it and people have been doing it for years and years without a parelli name in sight.
 
_EVS_ said:
The Catwalk Video was the nail in the coffin for me - disgusting.
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That was my indroduction after seeing a thread on here at that decided me that I will never ever put one penny into their coffers .IT was a disgusting performance and that he thought it was ok in public makes you wonder what gets done behind closed doors.
That and my experiance that the people who are interested seem never to ride.
 
totally agree LEC from what I've seen its generally people who aren't actually riding their horses and its the fact that its just plain common sense wrapped up to make it suitable to charge people for gadgets and dvds in order that they too can fully understand their horse and without said gadgets they will never b able to fully understand and enjoy their horse to its full potential when in reality good old fashion time patience and common sense minus the large patronizing price tag does just as well. and as for a horse being a left brain or a right brain or whatever as long as forlong
 
Goldenstar said:
That was my indroduction after seeing a thread on here at that decided me that I will never ever put one penny into their coffers .IT was a disgusting performance and that he thought it was ok in public makes you wonder what gets done behind closed doors.
That and my experiance that the people who are interested seem never to ride.
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I'd never heard of it until now, so just watched it.

Oh dear....but no one dare say anything because after all he's Pat Parelli. That's the trouble. I too would have beed disgusted and left.
 
LEC said:
It is nothing different to what a good horseman already does but it's wrapped up in fancy packaging and sold as an ethos when actually with horses there are many roads to Rome.

I do notice that the most extreme Parelli devotees never seem to actually ride their horse. So I am kind of convinced its for people to scared to ride.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

"Pressure halters" - hardly new, headcollars didn't exist 40 years ago, everything had a rope halter.

"Join- up" - ummm, remind anyone else of lunging?

"Squeeze game" - teaching a horse to open a gate politely would do the same, no?

"Carrot stick" - looks like a schooling stick to me.

The whole thing is designed for people who 30 years ago would have gone to a riding school once a week and would never have owned their own neddy...
 
I had an open mind about it, and went to a 2-day Parelli demo, with the man himself there. A lot of it was pretty impressive, I must admit.
I use some of the games here and there, they are useful tools to have in the box. I find the pressure halters useful sometimes.
I don't like the scientology aspect of it.
I don't like the 'my way or the highway' aspect of it. Many roads to Rome, indeed.
If people don't want to ride their horses, fair enough.
I particularly detest the 'your first Parelli horse is your sacrificial horse' mentality... if that is true. (I heard it 2nd hand, to be fair). But a GOOD horse-centric system does not need horses to be sacrificed whilst one is learning.
I don't like that, allegedly, PP used water deprivation as a training tool on the horses at his place. imho that is an absolute Last Ditch tactic (one i have NEVER had to resort to, I'm glad to say) and not a first one, esp in a very hot climate!
The Catwalk debacle was disgusting. A true horseman would have had the courage/honest/humility to say 'not this horse, not here, not today, not working, stop now, give him a rest'. Forget the show, the horse matters. It's strange because when I saw PP that was his attitude, and it was very impressive at the time...
The LP 'hitting blind horse round the head with the heavy clip because it is staring at a horse in the distance and not paying attention to me' video is particularly unedifying too.
Of course all of us make mistakes, but if you are as high-profile as they are and making £££s out of selling your wonderful fits-every-horse system, and your experience and superior horsemanship, you had better either NOT make mistakes like that in public, or have the nerve to admit to it and apologise, imho...
 
What's the catwalk video please? I've not heard of it before.

I don't know much about parelli to be honest, but the people I know of that have 'tried' it are the ones that are too nervous or scared to square their horses up and discipline them.
 
I totally agree with Kerilli. But, but, but I know several people - who do ride their horses - who have taken previously rude, difficult horses and transformed them into excellent, reliable,enjoyable horses that neigh and gallop over when the owner goes to catch them.
I went to a ranch in the USA where they break and train their horses by Parelli methods and all the horses were charming and well schooled and very easy.

I do agree about some of the "never ride the horses" bit, unfortunately, but these are people who like horses for what they are, not necessarily what they do and are happy to just spend time and play and not want to go to competitions all the time (unlike US!).

Personally, I think that the Natural Horsemanship thing has opened my eyes and made me look at things from the horse's point of view far more than before.
 
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