What do people think of Monty Roberts?

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smanf

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I went to see one of his demonstrations on Saturday, and yesterday, using what i had learnt, I made more progress with my youngster's manners in one day, than I have done in the two months I have owned him. So happy.

The weather made a huge difference too :)
 
I have been doing join-up for the past couple of weeks with mine, and yesterday my Dad (a retired horseman) came to watch. He was horrified :eek:!! He thought I had taken leave of my senses. My step-mum said that my Dad won't take on board these 'new' methods and can only have things done his way. I had to explain to them both that Monty is the same age as he is!!

Yes, true inspiration, and entertaining with it :D
 
I like that he wants to change the rough and ready treatment horses like mustangs receive when they're caught and "broken" by cowboy type trainers.

I like that he believes it's the owner's responsibility to train basic behaviours that make both ours and our horses' lives easier.

I don't like that he explains what he's doing based on an incorrect and personal version of horse behaviour.

I don't like the way he trains what he trains - too fast, too "dominant", too "loud" - everything he encourages people to train - and all of which are good things to train - can be trained in a much quieter, less confrontational way.

So, good and bad, just like the rest of us :D
 
I love him.

He's inspirational and a great teacher.

Through years and years of observing horses (wild and domestic) as a young boy and understanding 'horse language,' he has enabled thousands of horse owners have a better understanding of their animals.
 
I use alot of his techniques and think theyre fab BUT I think every horse is different and I dont think they work on every horse. Also I think the package sold to the public is unrealistic as some horses are dangerous and their methods are not suitable. All horses in their demo are hand picked as they suit his techniques giving unrealistic aims to those with more difficult horses.
But I do think he is good and far better than parelli.
 
Some good points there, kind of why I asked the question; to stop myself getting toooo wrapped up in the whole thing and to still keep an open mind.
 
I like his humility and how he has changed a great deal of how people perceive their horses. It is in large part down to him and his acheiving world wide fame for wha he does that a lot of us know that bullying horses isn't usually the answer.
But for me, Mark Rashid is better at reading individuals and having answers based on things from the horse's point of view. He has written several very readable books full of anecdotes - no lectures, or "how to"s - but each one has a fairly subtle learning point within it. Worth getting hold of Considering the Horse, Horses Never Lie, A God Horse is Never a Bad olour just for starters. Most are pretty unputdownable and make you think.
 
smanf said:
I have been doing join-up for the past couple of weeks with mine, and yesterday my Dad (a retired horseman) came to watch. He was horrified :eek:!! He thought I had taken leave of my senses. My step-mum said that my Dad won't take on board these 'new' methods and can only have things done his way. I had to explain to them both that Monty is the same age as he is!!

Yes, true inspiration, and entertaining with it :D
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While we're on the subject of join-up, I did it for the first time with my boy yesterday, and he seemed to respond really well and I liked the fact he accepted me as leader and followed me around. But presumably there is more to it.

I know I probably need to buy the book/video or whatever as I've never seen MR in action, other than in a video on Youtube, but can you tell me - how often do you need to do join-up? Is it something you make part of your regular regime, rather than being a one-off?
 
tiggybeans said:
While we're on the subject of join-up, I did it for the first time with my boy yesterday, and he seemed to respond really well and I liked the fact he accepted me as leader and followed me around. But presumably there is more to it.

I know I probably need to buy the book/video or whatever as I've never seen MR in action, other than in a video on Youtube, but can you tell me - how often do you need to do join-up? Is it something you make part of your regular regime, rather than being a one-off?
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ive known people to do it all the time, before riding, but ive known other people that do it like a monthly thing, so im not really sure what the right answer is!

my boy seems to go through the motions of join up whenever i lunge. that is he does the ear towards me, dropping his head, licking and chewing and smaller circles. its cute, but its not what i want when im trying to exercise him haha
 
tiggybeans said:
While we're on the subject of join-up, I did it for the first time with my boy yesterday, and he seemed to respond really well and I liked the fact he accepted me as leader and followed me around. But presumably there is more to it.

I know I probably need to buy the book/video or whatever as I've never seen MR in action, other than in a video on Youtube, but can you tell me - how often do you need to do join-up? Is it something you make part of your regular regime, rather than being a one-off?
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With my very limited experience, I think it is something that you can do as often (or not) as you feel is necessary, just to maintain the respect / trust levels. If a horse has been going really well, probably not a lot of need to keep doing it, but if concentration is slipping, perhaps time for a reminder.

I had a bit of a mishap yesterday with attempting to long line mine, he completlely freaked out (must've been his first time). So to put things back on an even keel, I joined up and got follow up too. I perhaps at this stage should have attempted the long lining again, but wanted to end on a good note.

I know what I'll be doing tonight lol!
 
Thanks.

So in answer to your question OP - a month ago I would never have considered doing anything like this as I'm much more of a traditionalist - ie. best to just get on and ride!

Now I am in the position of having to build up the confidence my horse has in me, which I realise was a bit lacking, so I definately think MR's join-up, and general approach to horsemanship has a place in the training of horses.:)
 
I think he is a bit like marmite you either love him and his methods or you hate them ;) Personally I love him think he is a really nice quiet rider who achieves a lot and clearly knows his stuff !
 
Ambivalent really. I think if he saves one horse from mishandling or abusive aggressive behaviour he has achieved a miracle to do it for many is a great thing to do
I am not however wrapped up in his stories and tales as I personally believe them to be exaggerations at best. I dont much like his commercial behaviour either but a man has to make a living
 
If you use the search you will see a million other threads on this wiht some v interesting responses. None of his theories are backed up by science in any way and there are suggestions from some that join up is actually a very unpleasant experience for the horse (though of course through his showmanship he makes it appear very lovely and funny and sweet). I wouldn't use it unless I was in an extreme situation.

Interestingly, Kelly Marks is on this forum but will never respond to any of the questions about the ethics of IH, or the lack of science behind it (and in fact, science contradicting its use), which to me speaks volumes. You also get kicked off the IH forum if you question any of these things no matter how gently. That says it all to me.
 
weesophz said:
ive known people to do it all the time, before riding, but ive known other people that do it like a monthly thing, so im not really sure what the right answer is!

my boy seems to go through the motions of join up whenever i lunge. that is he does the ear towards me, dropping his head, licking and chewing and smaller circles. its cute, but its not what i want when im trying to exercise him haha
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I find this worrying and I personally don't think that people should do join up and also lunge thier horses. Again this is something KM will not comment on. But think about it - when you do join up, you are saying 'I am driving you away until you act submissive, then I will stop driving you adn let you come to me'. How confusing it it, then, to stick a rope on, do the same thing, but not respond to the horse's 'requests' for you to stop driving it away.
 
Well I've worked with him nearly twenty years now and generally speaking I'd say he's OK.
He's incredibly passionate about what he does (every morning between demos this week he's working with the Queen's horses at Polehampton near Kingsclere). At 77 it's pretty impressive he can't wait to get out in all weathers to do horsey stuff.

I think some times he has the 'curse of knowlege' i.e. forgetting what it was like not to know - so he can tend to assume prior knowlege that people may not have - but that's always a danger with anyone with a lot of experience - so you're always wise to ask more questions and be clear on anything you don't understand.

I predict soon 'the usual suspects' will come on and say that he has two family members who say everything he says about his father abusing him and them colluding - is lies. I don't think that sort of response from family members is uncommon in these cases. In the unauthorised biography of Oprah Winfrey you get the same thing - "it was all lies Oprah said she was abused as a child". Though they do admit that the child she had (and which died) when she was 14 was most likely to be her uncles ... ho hum

Re. Join Up - personally I feel a couple or 3 times is probably enough for most horses. To me it's AS important that the person understands what they are doing with their body, eyes, energy etc and the effect it has on their horse and so on. I'm not a Monty Clone and the IH Recommended Associates are not Kelly-Clones (Thank Goodness) - we've all got to work out what's best for us and our horses - working and learning in the best ways we can.
 
I've been to a demo before, really enjoyed it and picked up a few tips that have helped me since. I think the trouble is when it's a big name behind it, it's easy for people to forget that they are only human too and can make mistakes with horses too. What works for one horse won't work for another but it's always going to be trial and error to find out what works. I personally wouldn't want to be put in the spotlight with a horse I've barely met, that must take some guts!!
 
windand rain said:
Ambivalent really. I think if he saves one horse from mishandling or abusive aggressive behaviour he has achieved a miracle to do it for many is a great thing to do
I am not however wrapped up in his stories and tales as I personally believe them to be exaggerations at best. I dont much like his commercial behaviour either but a man has to make a living
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Me too.........
 
Fantastic man and a total inspiration. I have seen him 3 times and met him on all 3 occasions. I have used his methods on all my horses and life is just so easy when you do!!!!
 
Kelly - great to see you on here. Could you comment about the Lunging and Join up problem? I've asked this to both you and Monty directly at Demos before and never had an answer.
 
Would you answer two questions that have always puzzled me Kelly?
Firstly, I think most of us would agree that whichever way an individual considers best, there is more than one way to gain a horses trust. So how come with join up it requires more than one session? Does that mean the horse doesn't fully trust you after the one session?
Secondly, if join up is speaking the horses language, how come its impossible (& sometimes dangerous) with some horses, such as the very dominant, or fear aggressive? If it was truly speaking the horses language, surely all horses would speak it? Yet its possible to gain the trust of horses like that by other methods.
I'm not nit picking or wanting to start an argument, I would just like to know what the official logic is behind what strike me as anomalies.
 
Kelly Marks said:
Re. Join Up - personally I feel a couple or 3 times is probably enough for most horses. To me it's AS important that the person understands what they are doing with their body, eyes, energy etc and the effect it has on their horse and so on. I'm not a Monty Clone and the IH Recommended Associates are not Kelly-Clones (Thank Goodness) - we've all got to work out what's best for us and our horses - working and learning in the best ways we can.
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I've done it 4 times with Ned now and I think it's worked wonders in our relationship (I was the girl who showed you a video of a horse loading on Saturday) I probably won't do it again as I feel it's done it's job now :)

I think Monty is a good man. Not perfect, but who is?
Even if he makes the world a better place for even just one horse, that's a good thing! He's really helped me and Ned, through his videos and books (as have you, Kelly).

I can understand how some people don't like him, but I do and that's my opinion :)
 
Really sorry I can't spend much time here (especially this month!) I think I should turn both the answers to these (good questions) into articles. Briefly on lungeing - neither Monty or I think single line lungeing is a good idea for a host of reasons and so first suggestion is to get two lines on your horse and really understand your own body language and what you're imparting to the horse.

Pretty much the only horses Join Up could be 'dangerous' with (and no more dangerous than general handling) - assuming (and this is important) a reasonable level of competency from the practitioner is 'possibly' a horse that has been abused by humans in the past - but I'm particularly including in this the 'bottle reared' as through their upbringing they DON'T know their own language, lose their flight instincts and can even become attack animals (as you might have seen in the Buck Brannaman film).

There is a lot more to IH and horsemanship (and Monty) than purely the Join Up though - it's more a way of being around the horse. If it's not something you want to do - don't do it!
 
Join up has been proven to NOT be stressful, via heart rate monitors. This was something I worried about, but pukka scientists have done studies on many horses now, including those at demos.

There will always be nay-Sayers and folk who want to look for bad in anyone, but Monty and his methods have saved many a horse from the meat man or worse scenarios.

I do personally find Monty's patter at demos a bit cheesy - sorry Kelly! But I find him credible and amazingly talented.

There is no need to rush to join up, try Kelly's book Perfect Manners - the exercises are great for developing a language with your horse and training yourself as we'll.
 
There are always going to be people who are never satisfied, you cant please everybody. I think Monty Roberts is a good horseman. After reading his books I tried Join up with my horse who was shy and nervous. It worked and over time we have established a firm bond. Ive never met Monty so I dont think anybody who doesnt know him can say hes not a good person etc etc, but I would love to go to one of his demos! :)
 
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