What do RDA think about this

Dizzle said:
Would I strap my inexperienced child to some wheels and attach them to the back of an inexperienced pony? No thank you.

The RDA have A LOT of experience in this matter and have a lot of resources on their website, it looks as if you would fail the assessment to become an RDA whip with this set up
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This^^^

Simon, if you want to succeed and you want part of that success to come from working with the RDA, the best thing you can do for now is to forget all about them. Seriously...do the following in the order in which I post and you'll stand a chance but be prepared it could take years to change attitudes.

1/ Any blog, thread or comments that can be traced back to you that discuss the RDA or are anything other than polite and "customer service friendly", that are available online, but can be permanently removed, remove them.

2/ Any blog, thread or comments that can be traced back to you that discuss the RDA or are anything other than polite and "CSF", that are available online that CANNOT be permanently removed, post a comment along the lines of, "following a period of reflection, I hereby disassociate myself with any and all previous comments. I am entering a new phase with my product and from this point forward, my focus is only on the safety and promotion of my product".

3/ Do not contact or otherwise discuss the RDA in any communication, either on or offline.

4/ Consult an equine H&S expert to produce H&S guidelines for you to ensure that everything you do, photograph, video etc. falls within the H&S guidelines and leaves you above reproach in that respect.

5/ Volunteer your own time and the use of your product to any other organisation, for the disabled OR able bodied in order to garner some positive PR. Always do this, regardless of any success that befalls you...it is priceless PR and shows a commitment to the cause.

6/ When you have a number of positive PR stories behind you, approach the equine publications to have a feature done of you where you do nothing but praise the work of any and all disabled/therapy related equine bodies.

7/ Wait. Continue as above, and wait for the RDA to come to you. If they do, you begin by apologising for your past conduct quickly and genuinely, then move on in discussing your product with them. If they don't contact you, respect that choice and leave them alone.

You have what is potentially a very good product for a market that could really benefit from it. Don't ruin that opportunity and let yourself down by focussing on the negatives and what has gone before. Instead, leave all of that behind you and move on into what has the potential to be a very bright future.

There are some companies out there at the moment that have the world at their feet...but they are creating their own failure. It is always down to the conduct of the proprietors. Don't fall into that trap. You can have the best product in the world, but the wrong attitude will guarantee failure, so think about that.

Good luck.
 
Is the chariot stable when turning a corner? Those wheels are very wide and the frictional force, therefore, considerably higher than with conventional wheels.
 
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I think he sneaked on to this forum, did not mention he was the inventor, I have serious reservations about someone who is not an experienced driver designing anything that involves horses, driving, and children.
Is he saying that it is a good idea to put a cart behind a nice pony and set off?
 
Awful blog.

This quote makes my mind boggle: 'Every so often things went pearshaped, the vehicle flipped up or did something dramatic and Obama decided to depart at high speed'
 
WelshD said:
Awful blog.

This quote makes my mind boggle: 'Every so often things went pearshaped, the vehicle flipped up or did something dramatic and Obama decided to depart at high speed'
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doesn't really fill you with confidence on the safety aspect does it!
having seen a pony in training to drive bolt with a light exercise trap on it is not something to be taken lightly, smashed up trap and traumatised pony, who also happened to be an RDA pony.
Have also seen a friesian take off with a trap with detachable shafts, that didn't end too well either.
 
Glad to see that H&H added this as a footnote to the article:-

'NB: Horse & Hound recommends that horses are broken to drive before being introduced to pulling any type of carriage and that drivers wear appropriate safety clothing including gloves and a safety hat.'

Quite.
 
Reading that blog is pretty scary... and seems to indicate that the the quick release system was quite well used - great loose pony with the potential to cause any number of other accidents.
 
ester said:
Reading that blog is pretty scary... and seems to indicate that the the quick release system was quite well used - great loose pony with the potential to cause any number of other accidents.
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I think some people are looking at links from years ago? This is the website with comments on safety. I don't see anything wrong with this.
People with disabilities have the right to take risks, the same as all of us. Any of our horses can cause accidents if we fall off and no one is outraged at that possibility. : )
 
ozpoz said:
I think some people are looking at links from years ago? This is the website with comments on safety. I don't see anything wrong with this.
People with disabilities have the right to take risks, the same as all of us. Any of our horses can cause accidents if we fall off and no one is outraged at that possibility. : )
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Yes I am all for people with disabilities taking risks but the consequences of a loose horse should the driver lose the reins ,spooked by a bouncing carriage can be appalling .
That's why able bodied or not having back stepper is the safest way forward and it's essential IMO In public where you have a duty to consider others .
 
most able bodied drivers would not be without a backstepper/second pair of hands either, I was not suggesting that the less able bodied can't take risks fwiw. I can't see any videos of the release system being employed at speed/with a bolting pony/scared novice driver.
 
I understand the whole point of the design is that risk of loose horse+ carriage is eliminated - surely that is worth further investigation.
 
ester said:
most able bodied drivers would not be without a backstepper/second pair of hands either, I was not suggesting that the less able bodied can't take risks fwiw. I can't see any videos of the release system being employed at speed/with a bolting pony/scared novice driver.
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I don't think there would be a queue of volunteers to take part in filming that combination! : )
 
No but that is the important thing/selling point about it... they could use a stuffed horse.

I guess at the end of the day if people want them they will purchase one, I can understand why the RDA I happy with their current set up though.
 
In my RDA group we have a traditional two wheel bennington carriage with a hydraulic ramp for a wheelchair. I'm concerned about the size of the wheels really, why have big heavy tyres like that? Apart from the fact the child has no helmet or groom next to him that's what I'm concerned about. I'm sure the pony was trained by someone who knew what they were doing before letting the child drive him
 
ozpoz said:
I understand the whole point of the design is that risk of loose horse+ carriage is eliminated - surely that is worth further investigation.
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Have you ever seen a horse get loose and be frightened by long lines ? If so x by 50 and think of it in a public place .
The chariot is two wheeled wants going to happen when it's released supposing a frightened child has the presence of mind to release it before it ends on it's side .
 
The chariot in its current incarnation appears to have two normal wheels at the front and a swivel wheel at the rear.
 
Goldenstar said:
Have you ever seen a horse get loose and be frightened by long lines ? If so x by 50 and think of it in a public place .
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My TB did this years ago, I was lunging (I think with two reins but I can't be sure, was a few years ago) and we changed the rein, I gee'd him up to get him moving as he was always lazy on the lunge, he shot forwards, pulled the line out of my (gloved) hand and took off. Six circuits of a 60x40 school at a flat out gallop, with ropes trailing behind him, he skidded and came over on his side at one point but was so stressed he was up again before I could get to him. He took off again, broke out of the school, across the yard, into his field, galloped a lap of the field and then came back to the barn, shoes sparking on the concrete where he thankfully skidded to a stop and we were able to grab him.

Thankfully nothing more serious than some nasty sand burns and a couple of physio visits to sort out where he'd handed so heavily.

So in my opinion a quick release sounds like a terrible plan.

How does the disabled child stop the locomotion of the carriage that is no longer attached to a horse?
 
Sorry but I don't really see the point of this thread--the RDA DO carriage driving so why should they be against the principle? If it is to sell his product then surely that is advertising. If he is miffed because the RDA won't buy his design I don't see what coming on here and slagging them off is meant to achieve.

Personally I will be eternally grateful for the RDA and everything they have done for me. Thumbs up to the RDA! :)
 
I was present in my SC when the horse in the ring before me in a "traditional" carriage complete with groom went AWOL (it was suspected it was stung by a wasp) the first one thrown out and under the wheels was the groom, then the driver, and then the horse charged round the small ring and out with a shattered carriage dragging behind it, straight out of the ring towards where I was standing and turned and fled up the ramp into the horsebox.
This was in the days before the instant release. I just stepped back and stepped the couple of feet to Blues head much quicker than any groom could.
The wheels aren't heavy neither is the cart (I have a Hillam,never used and had to swop its storage place with the SC It took a lot of pulling not easy with a weak arm,using both hands to haul it through the long grass and heave it up into the trailer ramp whereas I took the SC back to its storage with one hand :)
 
Fundamental rule of RDA driving is having a whip except in very certain circumstances - I believe the carriage driver must be of a certain level/been examined to drive without a whip. Seems a perfectly logical reason as to why RDA are overlooking this new design as there's no room for a whip in/on it... Not sure about para-level though.


ETS: RDA driving policy and procedures are all here for those interested: http://www.rda.org.uk/assets/Carriage-Driving-Safety-Code.pdf http://www.rda.org.uk/assets/Two-Sets-of-Reins-Policy.pdf and http://www.rda.org.uk/assets/Health-and-Safety-for-RDA-Whips.pdf
 
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jinglejoys said:
I was present in my SC when the horse in the ring before me in a "traditional" carriage complete with groom went AWOL (it was suspected it was stung by a wasp) the first one thrown out and under the wheels was the groom, then the driver, and then the horse charged round the small ring and out with a shattered carriage dragging behind it, straight out of the ring towards where I was standing and turned and fled up the ramp into the horsebox.
This was in the days before the instant release. I just stepped back and stepped the couple of feet to Blues head much quicker than any groom could.
The wheels aren't heavy neither is the cart (I have a Hillam,never used and had to swop its storage place with the SC It took a lot of pulling not easy with a weak arm,using both hands to haul it through the long grass and heave it up into the trailer ramp whereas I took the SC back to its storage with one hand :)
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That was absolutely one of the joys of the original Saddlechariot / turfsurfer, the ability to step off the back. However with the iBex, the whole reason for having one is because you CAN'T step off the back. Neither can you run after a loose horse.
 
I have had a horse and carriage get loose out on a public road and it was very scary, it was only because there was two of us that there wasnt an accident. Carriage tipped us both out and ran over the driver then bolted up the road towards the A56!! I ran after tham, luckily a car stopped and picked me up and the brave driver drove and over took the horse and let me out so I coul grab him whilst flat out. I got dragged into a wall and broke a rib but it could have been much worse

My point is this was a horse and people competing every weekend at FEI level and this happened with two of us, one small inexperienced child could have been carnage
 
I'd actually love to own a Saddlechariot. I've seen one in "the flesh" and it's a carefully thought out design. If you're able-bodied then the quick release and being able to step to the side to hold the horse seems like a good idea. I can't get my head around the concept of driving a horse if it wasn't OK with longlines around it's legs and behind it, surely that would be an essential part of basic training? At the end of the day, if a horse is going to get away from a human it will do it regardless of whether there is a groom available to run to it's head. Then, on balance, maybe I'd prefer the horse to be taking off without a carriage or chariot attached...? Hmmm...
However, as said above, the Ibex can't have the same quick release safety feature if it only contains one person in a wheelchair. That does raise some doubts with me to be fair.
Simon's been given good advice earlier, if he's serious then it might be a bit of a long process of proving himself and his design. Certainly, attacking the RDA is hardly going to be constructive or make them likely to listen to him.
 
Tinypony, the instant pony release system on the iBex is better than on the Saddlechariot because you don't have to get off. Just release. The person in the iBex has a ripcord, if someone is leading the pony, they have a ripcord as well and any carer can have a ripcord as well. The radio controlled instant pony release is available as an option as well and can be seen here http://youtu.be/YkqNRwT6pkk.
The system has a three years safe track record with profoundly disabled adults and children. The problem with RDA is that over 14 years they have NEVER allowed me to show them what I do. I have it in writing. If they refuse to look at safe systems, are they a responsible and safe organisation?
 
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Pony Access said:
Tinypony, the instant pony release system on the iBex is better than on the Saddlechariot because you don't have to get off. Just release. The person in the iBex has a ripcord, if someone is leading the pony, they have a ripcord as well and any carer can have a ripcord as well. The radio controlled instant pony release is available as an option as well and can be seen here http://youtu.be/YkqNRwT6pkk.
The system has a three years safe track record with profoundly disabled adults and children. The problem with RDA is that over 14 years they have NEVER allowed me to show them what I do. I have it in writing. If they refuse to look at safe systems, are they a responsible and safe organisation?
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See my post above - one of the rules of RDA driving is to have room for a whip. They (RDA) state the reason for having a whip is incase the driver suddenly lacks the ability to drive safely, or in the case of a horse taking issue with something. Until your device has the room for a whip to sit or stand, then I can kind of see why they've not taken a huge interested as it doesn't allow for one of their key safety points!

Quite frankly though I've found Ed B to be a very approachable man having met him so they must have their reasons... Certainly in my experience it's a very safe charity, aside of the normal risks involved with horses.
 
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Do you have a video of it working successfully at speed- with the pressures that puts on harness/brakes etc - as I understand the cord applies the brakes to the carriage. Something functioning correctly at a walk does not mean it will do at a faster pace. - with the radio controlled/person on the floor ripcord, if you need to have someone else there why not have a backstep as more standard? What is the distance on the radio controlled one? I'm just not sure a three year safe track record proves anything compared to rigorous testing that occurs in many industries as no one can know from your statement what sort of pressures the device has been tested at.

Because the RDA are happy with what they have in place and aren't interested in anything else does not make them an irresponsible or unsafe organisation, you can't extrapolate like that!

As I said presumably if an individual wants them and accept the risks that come with them as with any horse related activity then they are presumably available to purchase. It doesn't mean a national mostly voluntary organisation that already does a lot for the disabled community has to embrace it with open arms.
 
Pony Access said:
Tinypony, the instant pony release system on the iBex is better than on the Saddlechariot because you don't have to get off. Just release. The person in the iBex has a ripcord, if someone is leading the pony, they have a ripcord as well and any carer can have a ripcord as well. The radio controlled instant pony release is available as an option as well and can be seen here http://youtu.be/YkqNRwT6pkk.
The system has a three years safe track record with profoundly disabled adults and children. The problem with RDA is that over 14 years they have NEVER allowed me to show them what I do. I have it in writing. If they refuse to look at safe systems, are they a responsible and safe organisation?
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IMO you do yourself no favours with this sort of thing .
The RDA can do whatever they choose they are under no obligation to look at your product , this sort of approach to potential customers is likely just to alienate other people . I drive and I can tell you I find your approach on the basis of this thread off putting in the extreme to me.
Ps get that child a hat and some gloves .
 
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