What do think of this youngster?

Amazing how your post titled "What do you think of this youngster ?" got you not just opinions on the said youngster but loads of these 'know-it-all' ADVICE and lectures you hadn't bargained for...
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What's wrong with viewing him anyway if he's not hundred miles away ? And make your own opinion as pics can be so misleading.
So many ugly ducklings turn out their being their worth of gold
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and this one has something appealing in a weird way and despite the horrid, poor quality photos.
Personally don't like the second one featured in JM07's post, sorry
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but just my opinion
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needs some food, and a wormer........don't think i could cope with those eyes!!
 
He looks in a terrible state, malnourished wormy and filthy. I would have to say that the owners must be a right horrible bunch.
But that doesn't mean he wouldn't grow into a nice heavyweight gypsy cob because i would say that's pretty much what he is.
At only a year old you may well be able to undo some of the damage done to him by the foul condition he appears to have been living in.
I viewed a purebred ID that had been sold by a breeder to some very nasty types. He was in a similar state and it broke my heart as I knew his breeding and I knew his brothers and sisters had lovely homes, a friend managed to stump up the money £1500 ( and that was a hell of a lot for him) and he was rescued. He grew into the most beautiful grey gelding and was admired everywhere. After being professionally broken a top rider said he was a joy to ride.
Go and have a look at him, I think he has some good points, long legs short in back, take someone who knows gypsy cobs well and check him out properly, make sure he is correct and sound in limb and eye etc, he may just have an eye infection.There is not a lot of damage that can be done to a yearling apart from red worm infestation/lung worm if out with donkeys. You can fix that. If he is bred by the gypsys alot of them breed a good horse. They often change hands for a fair bit of money even amongst themselves.
Also they are not so likely to scrub him up for sale, after all what's a bit of mud, and muck and perhaps a few lice, it wont kill him, maybe to them he s just a horse in the rough and that's why he is cheap.
I know of quite a few people that have bought horses like that and got themselves a lovely bargain., but they've put in time, money and knowledge.
You must be as sure as you can that he is sound and correct conformationally for his type. If you haven't a clue and don't have an expert to hand, then be very careful.
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If you can afford him and can look after him, I actually think beneath all of the muck there is a very nice gypsy cob. If thats what you want, (and why shouldn't you), they are much admired, when fit, well and scrubbed up - go for it.
I personally don`t think its a lot of money to lose anyway if you are taking a gamble.
Could try offering less but it depends how much you like him.
Remember he may well be a lot more subdued now because he is in poor condition, that doesn't mean you cannot turn him into an angel with love and good training. Once he is fed up and gets the TLC he may be a right handful. Wouldn't have them do the gelding bit either get a vet you can trust. If you think he is ok get the vet out to double check him when you get him home. I d volunteer to come with you to have a look as I have a fair track record for picking a good horse in the rough but unless you are in the Highlands of Scotland I guess i am too far away. PM me if you want any further advice.
I think from the photos he looks like he has good conformation for his type. Quarantine him too his nose looks snotty and scabby - he may have strangles - that's not uncommon.
Remember he is not everyones cup of tea on this forum, you need the opinion of the hairy cob owners TBH.
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I think from the photos he looks like he has good conformation for his type.

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Why isn't there a giggling smiley when you need one.
And I really appreciated the point that you can't do much damage to a yearling.
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I think from the photos he looks like he has good conformation for his type.

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Why isn't there a giggling smiley when you need one.
And I really appreciated the point that you can't do much damage to a yearling.
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You slate everybody and every comment that doesn't agree with you! He is not really your type Shils, that obvious, but he is not that bad, just manky and thin. He has a nice long neck a well set on head and long legs he is a bit short in the back but I would think that is because of poor growth, due to lack of feeding. If it went on for all of his formative years then yes, it would create problems with bone density etc but as a yearling he would be salvagable. You probably would n't even be able to recognise him in a year or so if he was well cared for! He is undersize for his age due to malnutrion,and he is upright and hollow but that is because he is so thin and poor he is almost skeletal and that's what a horse skeleton looks like with no fat or muscle on it, you, just cannot see beyond that. Although you may hate to admit it I expect even you have known people that have bought an ugly ducking that turn out really nice.
I ve actually seen it happen on many occasions.
You really are an incredibly condescending and conceited know- it-all, who's only expertise is in being disparaging to others who are fully within their rights to express an opinion to give a balanced view on a subject.
Why don't you just give it a rest.
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katenjack......

i'm sorry but he DOESNT have nice conformation..

for "his type" or not..by that am i to take that gypsy cobs are to be inferior to other ponies??

shoulder, rear fetlocks and they are just 2 that are obvious.

no, he isnt Shils' type, but that doesnt mean she can't spot the obvious, eh?

he certainly would be MY type, and you can name your price with decent "gypsy cobs"...but he's not one i'm afraid...
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You are 100% correct - that is not a good gypsy cob and the true breeders would be horrified and it would have gone to the meat man long ago.

The cob JM07 showed was a nice example, not a great example - but they have telephone directory numbers.

I am reasonably knowledgable about the gypsy cob and there is no way that can or ever will be a good example of the breed

This is Chancer at 18 months - he is a good gypsy cob, with very good bloodlines and I paid £1800 for him as a yearling. He had been wormed, well fed and had all the handling basics. If he were a great gypsy cob you would be looking at £10,000.

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If you really wanted a nice gypsy cob, PM me and I will point you in the direction of the person I bought Chancer from - not all of hers are as expensive as he was.
 
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katenjack......

i'm sorry but he DOESNT have nice conformation..

for "his type" or not..by that am i to take that gypsy cobs are to be inferior to other ponies??:

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Not at all, I think gypsy cobs really have a lot going for them and as i said, they change hands for a lot of money amongst the gypsys and they don't often sell them that cheap to us.
There is something about him that is nice as Blackeventer said I have to agree. Maybe its a grotty picture. I think he is worth a look, that MO. Conformation changes a lot with correct growth, I had a horse with a hideously short back and long legs as a 3 year old but by the time he reached maturity at 7 and 17.1hh he was beautiful and his back was in proportion.
I can see nothing particularly wrong with this colts hind legs or fetlocks (they are covered with feather too!)
I think so many of you are happy to give big money to what you consider to be proper breeders, but they breed plenty of crap too.
Any animal including humans do not need optimal (best) feeding to survive and grow like so many of you believe. There are many poor people that subsist on a bowl of rice and a few vegetables once a day and they are slimmer and have a lower BMI and cholesterol levels than many in the western world. ie probably healthier. Overfeeding (or optimal) is the cause of much OCD in horses. Its like people who have fat dogs, dogs are basically scavangers and need one small meat based meal a day. Others who spend loads on supplements for their horses that just make the manufacturers rich.
This colt will have had his mothers milk for the first six months so he may have just had poor pasture for the six months hence and he may have done a lot of growing. He may be wormy but good worming will sort that too and if he has only been exposed to redworm for a year it won't have done that much damaged that cannot be healed. True if he was riddled for years it may do, but you take that risk with any horse you buy. You can't be sure that anything has been wormed regularly. Its also now accepted that most horses carry a worm burden, and if it that is within acceptable ranges, its ok.
Remember 20-30 years ago there was hardly any awareness of encysted redworm. What do you think they did then?
When I view a horse I seldom believe a word that anyone says,gypsy or genteel(!) so on that basis I would just make my judgement on my examination.
I would look at eyes, teeth, mouth, each limb for damage or deformity and straightness, and trot him up to check action.
You need to know the basics well to do that.
If you cannot do a simple "vetting" yourself then don't bother. Thats all I am saying.
Youngsters are always a bit of a gamble if he is ok in all the above I would buy him.
I hope someone nice buys him and gives him a chance.
 
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You are 100% correct - that is not a good gypsy cob and the true breeders would be horrified and it would have gone to the meat man long ago.

The cob JM07 showed was a nice example, not a great example - but they have telephone directory numbers.

I am reasonably knowledgable about the gypsy cob and there is no way that can or ever will be a good example of the breed


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i agree on all your points..
 
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I think from the photos he looks like he has good conformation for his type.

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Why isn't there a giggling smiley when you need one.
And I really appreciated the point that you can't do much damage to a yearling.
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You slate everybody and every comment that doesn't agree with you!
<font color="blue">No, I enjoy a debate...and realise that grown-ups can disagree without resorting to insults - something you need to work on, perhaps? </font>
He is not really your type Shils, that obvious, but he is not that bad, just manky and thin.
<font color="blue"> For someone who I've never met (thankfully
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), you do seem to make a lot of assumptions about me and my 'type' of horse!</font>
He has a nice long neck a well set on head and long legs he is a bit short in the back but I would think that is because of poor growth, due to lack of feeding. If it went on for all of his formative years then yes, it would create problems with bone density etc but as a yearling he would be salvagable. You probably would n't even be able to recognise him in a year or so if he was well cared for! He is undersize for his age due to malnutrion,and he is upright and hollow but that is because he is so thin and poor he is almost skeletal and that's what a horse skeleton looks like with no fat or muscle on it, you, just cannot see beyond that.
<font color="blue"> I'm not too sure what you're saying here. I've seen a few horse skeletons in my time - and it is the musculo-skeletal framework which I suppose we call conformation. In this case you can certainly see the skeleton - and it has very poor conformation, IMO. You are entitled to think it's marvellous, and I'm entitled to giggle at you. Why do you have to get your knickers in a twist about everything - tis only a forum, after all? If he's 'your type' of horse - that's great as far as I'm concerned...we certainly won't be fighting over the same conformational traits.
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Although you may hate to admit it I expect even you have known people that have bought an ugly ducking that turn out really nice.
<font color="blue">Well, yes and no. Yes, people have bought horses in poor condition, which develop into stunners (JM07's business strategy, I believe). But no, no-one can buy a horse with truly sh1t conformation and have anything other than soundness/health/movement problems. That's what conformation should tell you - the suitability of a horse for future work. And as such, horses can be different types - but the rules for good conformation are pretty much the same for a cob as for a TB. I think you are confusing type here, with conformation. </font>
I ve actually seen it happen on many occasions.
You really are an incredibly condescending and conceited know- it-all, who's only expertise is in being disparaging to others who are fully within their rights to express an opinion to give a balanced view on a subject.
<font color="blue">As I see it, all I did was giggle at your view of conformation - and now YOU are name-calling (don't worry, I think that's funny, too). Always the adult way to discuss things. </font>
Why don't you just give it a rest.
<font color="blue"> Oh, I see - you decide who is "fully within their rights to express an opinion to give a balanced view on a subject" and it is only the people who agree with you, or don't think you are wrong. Irony at its finest.
Please post again - I like you - you entertain me and I haven't had many laughs recently.
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You are 100% correct - that is not a good gypsy cob and the true breeders would be horrified and it would have gone to the meat man long ago.

The cob JM07 showed was a nice example, not a great example - but they have telephone directory numbers.

I am reasonably knowledgable about the gypsy cob and there is no way that can or ever will be a good example of the breed

This is Chancer at 18 months - he is a good gypsy cob, with very good bloodlines and I paid £1800 for him as a yearling. He had been wormed, well fed and had all the handling basics. If he were a great gypsy cob you would be looking at £10,000.

ChancerPosing-22Months.jpg


If you really wanted a nice gypsy cob, PM me and I will point you in the direction of the person I bought Chancer from - not all of hers are as expensive as he was.

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Agree entirely.
And contrary to Katenjack's belief, I don't have anything against gypsy cobs - have been known to buy them in the past
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I don't have a cob type myself (unless you count Shire x TB as one) as I am 5'10" and long in the leg, so even when they are broad and deep through the girth, my legs don't fit on (I ride long too).
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Why don't you just give it a rest.
<font color="blue"> Oh, I see - you decide who is "fully within their rights to express an opinion to give a balanced view on a subject" and it is only the people who agree with you, or don't think you are wrong. Irony at its finest.
Please post again - I like you - you entertain me and I haven't had many laughs recently.
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Its only that you are always so steadfast in your opinion that you are always right. What you said previously steered the OP away from even having a look at him. You speak with such determination and authority on everything from what I've seen. Obviously you don't want anyone else to override your opinions with a strong argument so you feel it necessary to come down like a ton of bricks on them.
He is an ugly duckling I agree. but some do turn out good.
There are many successful horse and even top horses that don't have fabulous conformation.
Conformation is important, but its not everything.
Neither does perfect conformation equal permenant soundness.
I must say you make me laugh too with your naivety.
 
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Its only that you are always so steadfast in your opinion that you are always right.
<font color="blue">I think it's called having the courage of my convictions. And if I weren't sure of what I was saying, I wouldn't post. Perhaps not all HHO members feel similarly constrained, though
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What you said previously steered the OP away from even having a look at him. You speak with such determination and authority on everything from what I've seen. Obviously you don't want anyone else to override your opinions with a strong argument so you feel it necessary to come down like a ton of bricks on them.
<font color="blue">On the contrary, I like nothing better than a good debate - with people who are mature enough (in mind and not in years) to know that you can disagree with someone without having to resort to name-calling. I love learning new things about horses, and about life in general, and debate helps to do that for me. I appreciate disagreeing as a civil exercise may be a difficult concept. </font>
He is an ugly duckling I agree. but some do turn out good.
There are many successful horse and even top horses that don't have fabulous conformation.
<font color="blue">No horse is perfect. But that cob, in my opinion is well below average in terms of good conformation, and in the abstract perfect conformation should equal perfect soundness in terms of force transmission. For example, my old TB mare has very good front legs, conformationally - so now age 19 and clean. My Shire x TB has toed out conformation - and developed a splint as a youngster. Conformation DOES matter. If it didn't - why do you think people show in hand? Why do BYEH classes have a conformation judge if it is no guide to future soundness?
I do like 'naivety' incidentally - I have been called many things before, but that's a first for me
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Opinions please - I think he is nice
http://www.horsemart.co.uk/AdvertRef/HM8...HorseDetail.asp
He has the same terribly short back and long legs as the OP one had that' s caused such controversy, is this not a typy thing or a stage they are at in their development, - all leggy.

He has a bit more meat on him than poor Clyde,

What you think Shils?
 
Aaaaarggghhhh!
Firstly, I don't know how to enlarge the pictures and I have trouble making out the shape of his barrel because I can't see what's mane, black or white back, or tree...
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And, unless anyone is going to pay me, I'm not going to spend my time doing conformation analyses if I don't have to
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He's definitely in better condition than the one in the OP...and his conformation is a bit better too...but still not wonderful. Out of the two, if I had to, I'd buy this one - at least he looks like someone cared for him....
Here's an interesting slide show from BEF regarding conformation, etc, although it doesn't cover cob types;
http://www.bef.co.uk/Downloads/Futurity%20Guidelines%20Slideshow.pdf
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QR -

Anyone who knows anything about horses conformations (cob or no cob!
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) would say the horse in the OP is a very poor example ... of a horse! Time will NOT sort out all of this horse's issues I'm afraid.
 
I'd be a little worried about buying one of the other horses she has for sale, too:

grey mare

Ad states she is not suitable for a novice because she is strong to lead and can buck, plus that she has been out of work for a few months and being sold 'from the field'. At the end is says, "No time waster and she is not available for loan or trial". Eeeek would be wary parting with £1850ovno for a horse advertsed liked that. Would anyone want to take the risk or is it just me??
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Oh no, wasn't thinking she was wouldn't be useful and a good price if it's all genuine. More critising the way the ad finishes up. Hardly inviting to buyers, in my mind. And I suppose a lot depends on who's actually selling the horse.

I'd be cautious after reading the lines 'sold from field' with 'no trial' added. Risky to take on a riding horse of her age, for that amout of money, without seeing her move under saddle. Too many other reasons why she might have been out of work to my mind. Just think if it's 100% genuine why wouldn't the seller be bending over backwards to prove how genuine the mare is? Maybe I'm wrong, but when someone lists a horse as 'sold from field' it means just that. You walk in, watch it move and make a decision. Could be risky if it's got temperament issues someone's trying to mask.
 
Oh no, wasn't thinking she was wouldn't be useful and a good price if it's all genuine. More critising the way the ad finishes up. Hardly inviting to buyers, in my mind. And I suppose a lot depends on who's actually selling the horse.

I'd be cautious after reading the lines 'sold from field' with 'no trial' added. Risky to take on a riding horse of her age, for that amout of money, without seeing her move under saddle. Too many other reasons why she might have been out of work to my mind. Just think if it's 100% genuine why wouldn't the seller be bending over backwards to prove how genuine the mare is? Maybe I'm wrong, but when someone lists a horse as 'sold from field' it means just that. You walk in, watch it move and make a decision. Could be risky if it's got temperament issues someone's trying to mask.
 
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Are you on drugs?

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I am not the only one who thought he might be ok you know.

Some ugly duckings can turn out fine, that's all I was saying.
Also it seems a lot of these little cobs look out of proportion with very short backs for a time. A few friends have had ones like this. they have been super when matured. I think its very hard to predict how they will turnout in the face of malnutrition and poor growth.
Yes, he has a pigeon chest, and a very short back, but I cannot see much wrong with the legs and fetlocks and they are buried under feather, he stands over his front legs too much as well but that my be just terrible photography and a bad pose or camera angle, or using a cheap standard lens which can foreshorten the body and make a horses head look larger than it is.
 
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I cannot see much wrong with the legs and fetlocks

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Well that's probably why you think he'll be fine and others think some of his problems won't be resolved with time, worming OR good feeding.
 
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Oh no, wasn't thinking she was wouldn't be useful and a good price if it's all genuine. More critising the way the ad finishes up. Hardly inviting to buyers, in my mind. And I suppose a lot depends on who's actually selling the horse.

I'd be cautious after reading the lines 'sold from field' with 'no trial' added. Risky to take on a riding horse of her age, for that amout of money, without seeing her move under saddle. Too many other reasons why she might have been out of work to my mind. Just think if it's 100% genuine why wouldn't the seller be bending over backwards to prove how genuine the mare is? Maybe I'm wrong, but when someone lists a horse as 'sold from field' it means just that. You walk in, watch it move and make a decision. Could be risky if it's got temperament issues someone's trying to mask.

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yes I see what your saying now . I would be wanting to see it being ridden, Doesnt take long to tack up in the field
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I cannot see much wrong with the legs and fetlocks

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Well that's probably why you think he'll be fine and others think some of his problems won't be resolved with time, worming OR good feeding.

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well said Tia.....

this is another example of too blind to see....
 
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