What do we do now? Long

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Mac1999

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I'm more of a lurker and reader of posts than a contributor, but some of you might remember my horse who had kissing spines last August.

He has had steroid injections and has been bought back into work slowly - the vets, my trainer, the back person are all adament he isn't in pain. But he is very unpredictable, we believe because he associates being ridden with pain (he has always been a bit nervy). He may be fine for a few times in a row, and then out of no where just panic and start bucking and broncing (lunged or ridden). He scares himself and then it's difficult to get near him. His saddle has been checked twice and fits well.

Basically, he's occasionally dangerous. He is so sweet and kind 85-90% of the time, but wild and unpredictable occassionally when doing any sort of work. I am not confident that he ever will be fully safe - I think whatever we do there will still be occassions when he could flip for no reason that we can see (and there is no warning - he tenses for a split second and then goes!). He might eventually be fine 20 times in a row but on the 21st time flip - and when he does he means business!

SO what do I do with him now? He is only 9. We have 10 acres of grass at home but we already have one 'lawn mower' who is my old pony who is semi retired. If we do anything with the pony my horse can't be left out on his own as he just won't settle. The pony needs to be in at night during the spring and summer (he's a fatty!) so my horse would need to be in then too.

I work quite long hours and my mum helps me during the week (my mum is non horsey but brilliant) but if we keep them both, it means I won't have anything to ride / compete because there is no way we can get anything new and have three!!

I got back into riding after 10 years off to low level compete, hunt and generally have a go at everything. My horse was fab for nearly 2 years until the kissing spines developed. The vets don't recommend surgery because they think it's psychological not physical.

SO what do I do?
He is not the type who could be completely chucked out if he was a companion (needs company all the time or needs to be in if he doesn't have company)?
Do I leave him for a year and then bring him slowly back into work and see if his mental issues have resolved (he would need more steroid treatment before then) although it would leave me horseless until then?
Or PTS? - I don't want to do this really as he is a sweetheart in the stable and didn't have the best start in life.

Thoughts and advice much appreciated
 
I have two lawn mowers at home and wish i didn't especially in winter when they need extra care, they are very big aswell and cost a fortune to feed and maintain given I get nothing back for them. I'd love to be hard enough just to call the hunt in but I just can't do it. One of mine is very difficult too and 9 yrs so in your case my advice would be PTS. You'll end up resenting the horse because you can't have something to ride and he could live another 15 + years.
 
i'd send him to either Richard Maxwell or Jason Webb, both have fantastic reputations with difficult horses. they might well be able to get him to give up the behaviour. it won't be anything they haven't seen and dealt with many times before.
i would also try a totally different saddle, one which feels different to the one(s) he wore when his back was hurting. perhaps a suberpad underneath, something like that which make him really notice the difference.
i'm in a v similar situation with 1 of mine, who had me off big-time 8 wks ago out of the blue, having not put a foot wrong for months, and i'm going to contact both of these guys and see whether i can go with her to one of them for a week or two's training etc (as soon as i can ride again, fwiw.)
v best of luck with him.
 
Poor you
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What type of horse is he? I mean, is he potentially a competition horse or really a Riding Club type? Just that if he is the former, you may find that there is an impecunious sem-pro out there (see the thread about making a living from horses
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) who would be interested in taking him on. They are likely to be able to work through his insecurities and issues far quicker and more decisively than you can, with their time, facilities and experience. However, if he is just a "nice person" type this option doesn't really exist.

It is a horrible dilemma to face, and I don't believe there is any right answer - of course we would all keep all of them for ever if we had unlimited time and resources but this is the real world. I think you have to do whatever feels right to you personally - listen to your gut instinct and go with that. If it were me I would probably PTS but many people would differ, and you have to live with yourself afterwards... Hope you find a way forward you are happy with.
 
Oh no, horrible situation. I think as Kerilli says, explore different options to have him put right first. If you can't, then you need to ask yourself why you have a horse. Is it to have a pet that you adore, or is it to ride and compete?

If the latter, then I think you need to PTS and get another one. Yes it will make you feel like rubbish, but in a few years' time, you will be over it (not that you'll forget him but it won't hurt as much any more) and you'll have something to ride. (not quite the same situation, but that's some of the best advice I had when I was deciding whether to sell my (rather average) horse that I absolutely loved and buy something that I could do more with - "why do you have a horse, is it because you love that one, or do you have one to compete it?").

If you keep him as a pet, then in a few years' time I think you will be unhappy as you won't have anything to ride. Also..... if you PTS any animal, they don't actually know about it, so you're not hurting them by doing it, you're just hurting yourself - you shouldn't feel guilty about it for his sake.

Really nasty situation to be in, good luck.
 
It is just really difficult.
He was bought so I could low level compete (up to about 1m05) at everything - a bit of BS, a few hunter trials and some hunting too. We were getting on really well and having loads of fun - out most weekends with reasonable success and some placings.

He was at my trainer (who is a semi-pro SJ) for six weeks when he came back into work and she found him flighty but OK, but didn't really iron out the issues, was just better at judging when it might happen than I am. And she is a professional so could maybe manage it slightly better, whereas I am a 'hobbyist' and want to be able to turn up at the yard after 10 hours at work and not worry about being squashed! I know horses take time and effort and I'm committed but I just haven't got the time or resourses she has? (Or the knowledge / experience)

Saddle - wise he was in a stubben I've had for ages until the initial 'episode' but that has never been back on him - we changed to a Butet when he came back into work - it fits him beautifully (I love it!) and has been checked twice. The vets are happy with it too.

I just don't know what to do. The logical thing I guess to PTS but it's hard - I know I would be able to do it if he was in pain but we don't think he is? ANd he probably could live out quite happily (if managed right) for the next 10 years so it seems selfish to do that just so I can have a go with another one!

t's very hard.
 
Also, with someone like Richard Maxwell, how long does it usually take (I know hard to generalise!!) and how much does it cost roughly??
 
mac1999 - i had to turn away my mare quite a few years ago - she was unsound due to injury and would have been ok for gentle hacking if it wasnt for her unpredictable broncing and rearing which frankly was too dangerous and i couldnt even get someone to take her in from the field - she too had connected pain with other activities. Anyway i missed her being out all the time (ive had her since a baby) so i bought her back in after 2 years living out about 18 months ago and i have a completely new horse now - she is sound and when i re-backed her she was a different horse and happy to be ridden and i even teach my 7 year old niece to ride on her now. Nobody that knew her can believe it but im so so glad i didnt listen to the vets and 'experts' that told me to pts. Please give the horse a chance - mine has turned from an uncontrollable unsound loony into a complete schoolmaster!
 
Whenever I have had to have a horse PTS it is hard to make the decision, but once you do it is a huge relief.

If he was my horse I wouldn't want to keep him if he was unpredicatable and dangerous. I would worry about giving him to someone else - I might loan him and then if it didn't work out I could deal with it, but if he injured someone I would feel so guilty.

Not nice to be you atm
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sandg1 is right. Turning away might give him a chance to forget...

But it might not. You need to think of yourself. Going up day after day to look after a horse you cannot ride, and sounds like he will take a lot of work. It's not easy. All of us like to think we'll always love our horses, but life isn't like that and there are very few who can submit themselves to 15 years of care without resenting the horse. That can spoil everything. When caring for my mare, knowing I wouldn't achieve anything with her, I ended up with depression. I began to hate her, hate the stables and hate myself for feeling that way. It affected my working life, my personal life and my University studies, and caused real problems I'm still working to recover.

You need to, as Kerilli said, satisfy yourself that you have done your best by this horse and tried every option open to you, that you can afford. But if nothing is working, its time to think of your own health as much as the horse's health. PTS is a decision only you can make, but there's no shame in it. Don't feel pressured to make the decision, don't feel pressured to keep the horse into old age either. Only you can know how you will handle things if it comes to retirement. So many horse owners fall into the trap of thinking the HAVE to put the welfare of their horse before their own health, but you can't care for a horse properly if you're not well yourself.

I am so sorry for your situation
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*hugs*
 
Thank you everyone. Definitely some food for thought.
Your support is definitely appreciated...I ddin't know if I was bad to even consider PTS. I wouldn't consider loan because if someone got hurt (and I think that would be a when not if at the moment) I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

I will think on and let you know what I decide. Thanks everyone.
 
btw mac1999, a butet is pretty low on the list of saddles i would put on a horse with a known major back issue.
i don't know how much it will be for Richard Maxwell or Jason Webb to have my mare, but i think they'd probably want her for 1-2 weeks or maybe more.
 
What precisely does this horse do in one his episodes? If he rears and backflips (either on the lunge or ridden), then I would say PTS. Backflipping is a classic sign of a 'brain problem' as the horse has lost self preservation.

If this is this case then PTS as one day it could kill you or someone else.

However if it just a general benny, but the horse is self aware, then its a problem that you can work through.

I also agree I wouldn't be putting a close contact saddle on a horse with back injuries as you want the biggest panels possible.
 
I would try turning away. My mare pulled a muscle in her back, and it hurt when she stretched over a jump, i got her sorted and brought her back and she did it again (no weakness just a tendancy to do sliding stops down a hill in her field) Once again I brought her back and she was ok but always a bit backwards in her thinking and not confident.

Then I broke my ankle - cue 1 month off and 3 months not jumping. When I brought her back she is like a new horse. She is much more forwards thinking and will take a flyer without stopping now.

I know it is slightly different in that my girl just put stops in whereas yours is having a proper tantrum, but turning away has worked amazingly on mine.
 
I would recommend you send your horse to Jason Webb ( I have no experience of Richard Maxwell)

He trained my very jumpy and unpredictable youngster who would buck, rear, bronc, panic when ridden/lunged and literally kick his way out of a lorry if you could load him; now you would think was a bombproof schoolmaster!

He not only trained my horse but he trained me to read the very subtle early warning signs and taught me how to react (also in a very subtle way) to prevent him freaking out in the first place.

I am by no means an inexperienced horse person having worked with horses for 20 years producing and training many horses and riders myself over the years but this youngster had me stumped! Jason saved him from a bullet (to be blunt) and he is now a very useful, polite, well mannered (talented!) horse.
It cost £195 plus vat per week, (he only had him 3 weeks!) but worth every penny. Don't waste your money on anyone less skilled, this guy really is the best you will find!

He will be absolutely honest and tell you straight if he feels your horse needs to be PTS
 
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