What do you do to keep your horse 'on the road'?

I don't fuss.
She has her normal checks, saddle, teeth, equine podiatrist etc. when she feels off She has the osteo out (3-4 times a year) and that is it.
I do believe the more we fuss our horses the more prone they are to all sorts.
Sure if things need doing they need doing and not all horses are the same, but in my view no need for booting up to go out etc. no fuss needed!
 
medical science is advancing all the time,why would you not want to use it?

succesful competition horses enjoy having a job, anything that safely allows them to carry on enjoying life is a good thing imo, nothing desperate about using all the tools you have to hand.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
medical science is advancing all the time,why would you not want to use it?

succesful competition horses enjoy having a job, anything that safely allows them to carry on enjoying life is a good thing imo, nothing desperate about using all the tools you have to hand.
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I don't really get it either tbh.

We aren't talking about buting something up to the eyeballs and expecting it to run despite the fact it is lame :confused:

These are horses that even in 'the olden days' would have been sound and therefore still out competing. Why not make them as happy as possible given that either way they are going to be doing the job?!
 
I'm lucky, I have a 4yr Connie x ISH and she is so low maintenance, I have her teeth checked once a year, and her feet done every 6 weeks (just two front shoes and trim behind) and two months ago we went up a saddle size and she got a new Barnsby Saddle in wide as a present! :)
But aside from that, her feed twice a day is a scoop of Molichaff Magnesium and half a scoop of Cool and Calm, and then some NAF Hayledge Balancer and NAF Garlic Granules as supplements. She lives out by Day and In by Night with hayledge, so she really is very simple.
When we go to a competition before I load her, she gets some NAF Instant Magic just as she is prone to stress if I leave her alone in new places, which I have to do for getting numbers, walking the course etc. Hopefully the more little things we do the less she'll worry about me leaving her, but for the time being I like the Magic, it works.
 
Jesstickle said:
I don't really get it either tbh.

We aren't talking about buting something up to the eyeballs and expecting it to run despite the fact it is lame :confused:

These are horses that even in 'the olden days' would have been sound and therefore still out competing. Why not make them as happy as possible given that either way they are going to be doing the job?!
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But by injecting an anti-inflammatory directly into a joint, you are just 'buting up' as that's having the same effect, just in a very targetted way. I think it was TS who mentioned the other day in her post about not all pain showing as a lameness? If you have sore hocks then you dont perform as well. You have sore hocks because the joint is degenerating- arthritis in some form or another. So injecting a pain killer will reduce the feeling but it wont prevent more damage from occuring. Then you're working a horse on a compromised joint?

PS- mine was a 2* event horse who loved his job. He equally loved his 'retirement' jobs being a schoolmaster for other people and now loves his proper retirement out in the field.
 
You see if I could have a low maintenance horse I would, I never used to bother with anything other than the standard, farrier/dentist/physio appointments (I say standard, the latter two weren't only a few years ago!). If he did have something that was easily injectable to make him comfortable to be ridden and competing I would do though, why not. I did inject him for his tendonitis, with adequan, and would inject joints if needed.
 
TheMule said:
But by injecting an anti-inflammatory directly into a joint, you are just 'buting up' as that's having the same effect, just in a very targetted way. I think it was TS who mentioned the other day in her post about not all pain showing as a lameness? If you have sore hocks then you dont perform as well. You have sore hocks because the joint is degenerating- arthritis in some form or another. So injecting a pain killer will reduce the feeling but it wont prevent more damage from occuring. Then you're working a horse on a compromised joint?

PS- mine was a 2* event horse who loved his job. He equally loved his 'retirement' jobs being a schoolmaster for other people and now loves his proper retirement out in the field.
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You aren't buting up. You aren't introducing pain killer. You are introducing (usually) an anti inflammatory in the form of a steroid. You aren't masking pain (as you would with bute) but rather treating the cause of it and helping to alleviate it that way and also helping to prevent further damage occurring. In my eyes they are really very different. One is hiding pain and one is removing the cause of it. As far as I know steroids do nothing as a pain killer as such although I'd have to check that with a pharmacist!

I am struggling for words today a bit. That isn't very clear at all. Meh, I give up!
 
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Jesstickle said:
You aren't buting up. You aren't introducing pain killer. You are introducing (usually) an anti inflammatory in the form of a steroid. You aren't masking pain (as you would with bute) but rather treating the cause of it and helping to alleviate it that way and also helping to prevent further damage occurring. In my eyes they are really very different. One is hiding pain and one is removing the cause of it. As far as I know steroids do nothing as a pain killer as such although I'd have to check that with a pharmacist!

I am struggling for words today a bit. That isn't very clear at all. Meh, I give up!
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this.

i also think that if i had an upper level horse that i retired due to joint probs, running it on as a schoolmaster without any joint support is unfair.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
this.

i also think that if i had an upper level horse that i retired due to joint probs, running it on as a schoolmaster without any joint support is unfair.
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In my horse's case, he wasn't run on anywhere, he was used as schoolmaster in a couple of top class BHS training centres. He will have hock injections this year to keep him comfortable. But I'm never going to ask him to work hard on compromised joints
 
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Jesstickle said:
You aren't buting up. You aren't introducing pain killer. You are introducing (usually) an anti inflammatory in the form of a steroid. You aren't masking pain (as you would with bute) but rather treating the cause of it and helping to alleviate it that way and also helping to prevent further damage occurring. In my eyes they are really very different. One is hiding pain and one is removing the cause of it. As far as I know steroids do nothing as a pain killer as such although I'd have to check that with a pharmacist!

I am struggling for words today a bit. That isn't very clear at all. Meh, I give up!
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Bute is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory
Cortisone is a steroidal anti-inflammatory

The kind of pain caused in joints is generally due to the inflammation response to, for example, worn cartilage. Therefore removing the inflammation does not cure the problem but does relieve the pain
 
I have a 16yo TB who I have owned since a 5yo. We mainly event, BE90 level, schooling at BE100 level. He lives out 24/7 (since a suspensory injury 5yrs ago), gets fed twice a day, conditioning feed (currently Rowan and Barbury Ready Mash Extra), plus hay in the winter. Physio twice a year (before and after event season, unless needed during), teeth every 12 months. Feet used to be every 4 weeks but currently we are managing 5 weeks (used to be pads and ali shoes, but now normal all round).
The only thing I have changed this year due to his age now is if I am schooling him, I always do a min 10 min walk hack before going in the arena (obviously I always walk warm up in the arena regardless!)

I wouldn't say he has had a hard working life, he has had plenty of time off due to injury over the near 11yrs I have had him;) He always gets min 2 days off after an ODE (was one day when he was younger) and I try to keep his work varied, I do much less work on a surface since his SI injury, as I think this was a contributory factor in the injury.

I wouldn't hesitate to medicate his hocks if he needed them, and I hope to continue to event him until he tells me he's had enough.
 
Also higher up the levels, you are almost resigning yourself to poorer results due to the fact that everyone else IS medicating! ;)

A horse with medicated hocks/back will more often than not do a better test/jump clear more often than a horse that doesn't imho :)
 
TBH I sit on the fence, I sometimes do that so much that I get a sore bum!!!

I find it mildly amusing that buting a horse is such a big no-no, yet it's absolutely fine to jab away with cortisone. And I very much agree that both methods to some (but slightly different) extent allow a horse to maintain a level of work whilst compromised in some way.

That said, I don't necessarily strongly disagree with it from an ethical stance. I think there is a grey area whereby veterinary assistance in order to help a slightly struggling horse maintain performance is 'okay'. But there is a delicate balance between the level of intervention, the horses competition performance expectations and the horses quality of life that does always need to be in the back of our minds when deciding how to proceed.
 
TheMule said:
Bute is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory
Cortisone is a steroidal anti-inflammatory

The kind of pain caused in joints is generally due to the inflammation response to, for example, worn cartilage. Therefore removing the inflammation does not cure the problem but does relieve the pain
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I know all that. I did say I was struggling for words. Clearly I am struggling more than I thought I was!

My original point was that most high performance horses will have it done at some point. Vets are happy it isn't a welfare issue, governing bodies are happy it isn't a welfare issue. I suspect it isn't a welfare issue.
 
QR re whether or not we should compete horses that have been medicated, I always thought (and you can shoot me for thinking this if you like!) that if I were an athlete and a bit of medication allowed me to continue to do the sport I enjoyed (legal of course!), then I wouldn't hesitate to take that medication..
Horses cannot speak to us to say if they want to continue or not, but I believe that if we know them well enough then we can tell when they have had enough.

My old mare had her joints medicated (knee and coffin joint) and they helped her immensely, but despite being sound and comfortable again after the injections, she just did not enjoy her work like she did before so I made the decision to retire her and bought my other horse (see post above).
Interestingly that was 11yrs ago and she is still pottering around the field looking rather sound (for her) and happy at the age of 23 :)
 
ihatework said:
I find it mildly amusing that buting a horse is such a big no-no, yet it's absolutely fine to jab away with cortisone. And I very much agree that both methods to some (but slightly different) extent allow a horse to maintain a level of work whilst compromised in some way.
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I really wasn't trying to imply that at all! I am not explaining myself at all well.

:(
 
Jesstickle said:
I know all that. I did say I was struggling for words. Clearly I am struggling more than I thought I was!

My original point was that most high performance horses will have it done at some point. Vets are happy it isn't a welfare issue, governing bodies are happy it isn't a welfare issue. I suspect it isn't a welfare issue.
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Sorry- it's just that in your post you told me they were totally different?!

I actually agree it probably isnt a welfare case in most cases. But I do personally find it a little unethical and I dont really agree with it. I know it goes on all the time, but not every time and I think plenty of horses dont need such dramatic veterinary intervention
 
TheMule said:
Sorry- it's just that in your post you told me they were totally different?!

I actually agree it probably isnt a welfare case in most cases. But I do personally find it a little unethical and I dont really agree with it. I know it goes on all the time, but not every time and I think plenty of horses dont need such dramatic veterinary intervention
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Ok, I will try (once more and if it doesn't work I will accept I am totally doomed to failure today at making my point!) again :)

Long term, systemic use of bute to bring a horse sound is, in my opinion, different from the judicious use of localised steroids to prevent a horse going lame.

I think both have their positives and their negatives, I see that it is a grey area and that ethically there is no clear line BUT for me, medicating the joint of a horse which is sound and still happy to do its job is OK.
 
Jesstickle said:
I really wasn't trying to imply that at all! I am not explaining myself at all well.

:(
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Don't worry, I kind of knew what you were getting at!
I actually would cortisone jab a horse if needed and if I felt it would help a horse that enjoyed it's work to maintain performance. But I do also appreciate the ethical dilemma and think it is always worth keeping it in the back of your mind.
 
ihatework said:
Don't worry, I kind of knew what you were getting at!
I actually would cortisone jab a horse if needed and if I felt it would help a horse that enjoyed it's work to maintain performance. But I do also appreciate the ethical dilemma and think it is always worth keeping it in the back of your mind.
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At least I didn't use the word snatch though eh? ;)

I'm going to get banned for that, I can feel it coming!
 
I think part of the trouble with buting is that it is a blanket treatment that masks pain and inflammation throughout the body. So if you compete a horse on bute, because it is stiff in the hocks, say, then if that horse damages a tendon whilst working the pain will be masked, and therefore the tendon injury may be missed and more serious damage may occur.

With injections, the medication is targeted, so if you inject the hocks, then if another part of the horse is injured the pain won't be masked. It would be important to get a proper diagnosis of the hock problem though with X-rays etc., and the vet's advice on whether or not continued competing of the horse will actually cause serious damage to the joint and hasten the horse's early demise. However, if the vet feels that the injections would just make the horse feel more comfortable until the joint has fused, then I can understand that course of action.

Thankfully have not had to face that particular dilemma, but that would be my thinking if I did!
 
The pony gets a hoof trim 1/month, physio at irregular times but becoming more frequent as moving up grades, and at the moment is eating an enormous (for him) amount of high-fibre, low-starch feed along with his mineral supplement and linseed. He gets electrolytes just before, during, and after competition. The physio is mainly in aid of making sure that we spot any soreness, so that can be reasonably confident that I'm not asking him to do something that hurts. He has the dentist only once a year, as his teeth are excellent, and will probably have the saddle fitter again in a few months. During competition, he is frequently offered water and "speedibeet tea", a very sloppy preparation of water, a bit of speedibeet, apple juice, and electrolytes.
 
TGM said:
I think part of the trouble with buting is that it is a blanket treatment that masks pain and inflammation throughout the body. So if you compete a horse on bute, because it is stiff in the hocks, say, then if that horse damages a tendon whilst working the pain will be masked, and therefore the tendon injury may be missed and more serious damage may occur.

With injections, the medication is targeted, so if you inject the hocks, then if another part of the horse is injured the pain won't be masked. It would be important to get a proper diagnosis of the hock problem though with X-rays etc., and the vet's advice on whether or not continued competing of the horse will actually cause serious damage to the joint and hasten the horse's early demise. However, if the vet feels that the injections would just make the horse feel more comfortable until the joint has fused, then I can understand that course of action.

Thankfully have not had to face that particular dilemma, but that would be my thinking if I did!
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What TGM said! We have a horse with one hock medicated, the other has not needed doing yet, he was not lame but was struggling with collected work, hock medicated, good to go, he is 14 and this has been his first injection, the other hock is ok so far so he is on a high spec joint supplement, he has always has weak hocks since we bought him at 7 but we have managed it until this point, we knew it was time for the jab and he feels much better and happier for it, he enjoys his work :)
 
WellyBaggins said:
What TGM said! We have a horse with one hock medicated, the other has not needed doing yet, he was not lame but was struggling with collected work, hock medicated, good to go, he is 14 and this has been his first injection, the other hock is ok so far so he is on a high spec joint supplement, he has always has weak hocks since we bought him at 7 but we have managed it until this point, we knew it was time for the jab and he feels much better and happier for it, he enjoys his work :)
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Which high spec joint supplement? One which would help a seemingly constantly broken horse?
 
No, one that has been recommended by the vet to help support his joints, yes he has a touch of arthritis, not enough to make him lame and when I have arthritis I am sure I will take whatever is available at that point :)
 
Depends what you mean by 'on the road' ;) To keep Frenchie happily hacking out a few times a week and comfortable enough to boot the other horses in the field she has:

- 2 bute a day (only just stepped up and may well step it back down again soon)
- Suppleaze gold (not convinced this does anything)
- MSM (see suppleaze gold)
- Remedial farriery - lateral extension
- Gentle hacking on hills (to keep her mobile)

I feel I should qualify this by saying we know her lameness is caused by hock arthritis, hence the treatment with bute, she is likely to be retired in the next year, but it is evident atm that she is happier when ridden (both mentally and in terms of soundness). Both my current vet and Rossdales when they last saw her are happy with this (although she is likely to go back to Rossdales when I move home to Cambridge for a full check up).

All in all, a very expensive pony!
 
Mine has riaflex everyday, shod every 6 weeks, long warm up and cool downs. If we jump a lot then he wears bio flow boots on the front with stable bandages on hinds. Dentist every 6 months, saddler out if I feel there's an issue. Rarely physio as I do regular stretches and 'easy' work but would def get her out if he wasn't right and didn't come right. He's an ex racer who raced for several years so needs that bit more TLC. Would I jab a joint? If it made him happier, yes but I wouldn't be looking to push on up the levels on him, mainly cos I think he's already had a hard life and refuse to push him just for my sake.
 
Gosh, my horse gets more attention/diary appointments then I do! (and costs near enough an extra mortgage!)

So mine 16.2h TB, who i do low level BE/unaff eventing, RC type events, bit of hunting in the winter. Probably ridden 5-6 times per week (mixture of schooling/jump/xc/hacking) But i guess it depends on what Im doing at work.

Feed- A&P calm and condition, alfalfa A, cortaflex, Top spec comprehensive balancer. Flax oil x3 weekly during the winter for a bit of extra glow. Haylage and turnout during the day.

Back- done every 6 months, but sometimes 4 monthly if any problems

Teeth- every 6 months

Saddler- Had him out twice in the past 6 months, but once was just a check (and a total reflock of dressage saddle) and the other time as i bought a new XC saddle, plus I got him to check the previous reflock)

feet- being a typical TB his feet fall apart in the dry hard summer so every 5 weeks in the summer but otherwise every 6.

Vaccinations. Also had the A&P nutrition lady out recently (free, and everyone at the yard did it- she also bought her electronic weigh bridge- v amusing playing guess the weight!)

PHEW!!! He's such a diva :rolleyes:
 
Thankfully my mare is quite straightforward.
She has her teeth done twice a year, osteopath two to three times a year.
I've also started her on superflex to help her relax her muscles and sea horse Atlantic for her coat and condition.
 
TGM said:
I think part of the trouble with buting is that it is a blanket treatment that masks pain and inflammation throughout the body. So if you compete a horse on bute, because it is stiff in the hocks, say, then if that horse damages a tendon whilst working the pain will be masked, and therefore the tendon injury may be missed and more serious damage may occur.

With injections, the medication is targeted, so if you inject the hocks, then if another part of the horse is injured the pain won't be masked. It would be important to get a proper diagnosis of the hock problem though with X-rays etc., and the vet's advice on whether or not continued competing of the horse will actually cause serious damage to the joint and hasten the horse's early demise. However, if the vet feels that the injections would just make the horse feel more comfortable until the joint has fused, then I can understand that course of action.

Thankfully have not had to face that particular dilemma, but that would be my thinking if I did!
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That is what I was trying and failing to say!
 
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