What do you do to keep your horse 'on the road'?

I only compete at low unaff level, but my horses do a lot of work inc long days fast hacking and jumping up to 1.40m at home. At the minute they get grass.. and a token food of a handful of balancer and a handful of happy hoof! Always very energic, flexible, shiny, muscley and unfortunately a bit fat despite being muzzled :(

In the winter they get a lot more food though, just more balancer and happy hoof plus Alfa-A Molasses free or Oil. Teeth done once every 6 months, barefoot so feet done when they need it, saddle checks every so often but not as regular as I should and I need to get round to sorting that!
 
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This has actually been a really interesting discussion about the ethical use of medicating joints. my ISH was diagnosed with KS last year when he started refusing so I got him checked out and his back was injected and he was much much better after that, but they didnt last that long and I decided to have the operation to remove the necessary spinal processes and he came back brilliantly. now would i have continued injections to keep him going, probably for a while yes but not sure about long term. Its very difficult to decide what is best really and i think things should probably be judged on a case to case basis.
 
TGM said:
I think part of the trouble with buting is that it is a blanket treatment that masks pain and inflammation throughout the body. So if you compete a horse on bute, because it is stiff in the hocks, say, then if that horse damages a tendon whilst working the pain will be masked, and therefore the tendon injury may be missed and more serious damage may occur.

With injections, the medication is targeted, so if you inject the hocks, then if another part of the horse is injured the pain won't be masked. It would be important to get a proper diagnosis of the hock problem though with X-rays etc., and the vet's advice on whether or not continued competing of the horse will actually cause serious damage to the joint and hasten the horse's early demise. However, if the vet feels that the injections would just make the horse feel more comfortable until the joint has fused, then I can understand that course of action.

Thankfully have not had to face that particular dilemma, but that would be my thinking if I did!
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Totally agree with this opinion, and i'm fortunate that i havent had to make this decision yet. My horse is 11yrs old, and i've had her since she was just backed, she is currently working GP at home, competing consistently well at Small Tour. Good placings at Premier Leagues, qualified regionals at both PSG and Inter1, aiming for GP next year, all being well. She is only shod in front, and her feet are done every six weeks, equine massage therapist every 6/8 weeks, teeth and saddle checked every 6 months. She is out in the day and in at night all year round, is fed ad lib steamed hay, Spillers H+P cubes, Alfa A, oats, speedibeet, corn oil and superflex. She works four times a week, hacks once or twice a week, and has one or two days off a week, always take time to warm up and cool down, and she wears a massage pad once a day. No other special treatment, or vet potions/medications/injections. Oh i forgot, she gets hayfever, so in the summer she has a herbal supplement (AllergAllay).
5yr old has similar, but no oats, and no shoes! And is more likely to work three times a week rather than four.
 
Jack has physio every 2 months, farrier every 5 weeks with road nails to stop him slipping. Cortaflex daily to stop the stiffness. Saddler every 6 months, Dentist every 6 months.

Linseed daily and slow release cubes to stop the laziness!!
 
I have a 13 yr old tb who competed to a decent level eventing until 3 years ago when he got chucked out in the field for 2 years until he came back into work last year. So in the past few years he has done relatively very little. But he raced NH til he was 7 and I imagine that, on top of the eventing may be the reason he has "legs like a battle horse" as my vet always says. Thus he has his hocks medicated and you can see the difference it makes to him- his trot is huge and he looks so much bouncier in all his paces and happier in himself.

Apart from this he has a monthly sports massage, his feet done every 5 weeks and dentist every 6 months. Saddler comes afar too often for my liking- in the past year since he came back into work he has changed shape dramatically which has meant I'm onto my 3rd dressage saddle for him and waiting for saddler to come out with another new jumping saddle- he has gone from a medium gullet to wide/ extra wide, for a tb I think that's just ridiculous!

Supplement wise he gets linseed, Caron oil and aloe Vera in his feed once a day. Plus the cavalor muscle build which I am in awe of- it makes me weep paying for it, it's so expensive but he looks so amazing on it I have to suck it up. His weedy neck which no amount of schooling could change has doubled in size, I look at him and swoon instead of thinking he is slightly ugly like I used to ;) despite having his hocks injected he gets no joint supplements as my vet told me he doesn't rate any of them so not to waste my money. I would like to try the cavalor arti matrix supplement but may need to take out a second mortgage to pay for that as well as the muscle build :( feed wise he gets cavalor pianissimo and strucomix original twice a day- can you tell I'm a massive cavalor fan?!!
 
Mine are fairly low maintenance, both out overnight ATM on reasonably good grazing. In winter will be out during day.
Both eat Pure Easy, not much of it, J has Devils Relief and has just had his fetlock injected for the third time (12 months between each). He does low level BD and occasional unaffiliated SJ and eventing and is 17 now. Roo has suppleaze joint supplement, and pro hoof, hopefully will also be doing low level BD and some jumping again soon. He's barefoot all round and has been self trimming for about 6 months. J shod all round and religiously every 6 weeks with excellent farrier. They both have saddles checked every 6 months and Chiro every 6 months, dentist annually.
 
I do whatever I need too :)

They are all (4!) barefoot due to issues with my old farrier. One got diagnosed with navicular due to poor balance - long toes, no heels - and looking at the others there feet had all gone the same way so their shoes were pulled. I could have wedged and padded my mares feet and been able to continue our attempts at competing but I couldnt do it in good concience so I lost 2 years while she had time off, had a foal and grew new feet. If I get to the point where I need shoes again then I'll shoe but until then they are all sound, comfortable and coping fine with their workloads. Yes I have to be careful what they eat and how much grass they consume but it's worth it, IMO, to see just how sound they now all are and how well they move since having shoes off.

Diets are as simple as possible, partly as barefoot and partly as I'm tight! 3 get beet, KeyFlow rice bran and grass nuts, Indy has a 'special' diet of KeyFlow StayCool or Maestro mix as it's the only thing that he does so well on. I'm super careful about sugar levels and feed extra copper to help feet.

Rascal is really the only one that we pay extra special attention too physically. He's 15, has dodgy hocks/SI/back, but he's not a competition horse and not yet having to have bute daily. He had his hock injected nearly a year ago and will have it done again next month gefore the insurance claim ends. It's made a big difference and we will have no issues continuing it for the rest of his useful days to keep him comfortable. He also has a Back On Track warmer pad that he wears overnight and before work. His cold back symptoms have gone, he is moving better and jumping well.

I wouldnt hesitate to inject the others if they needed it, though they are far lower mileage than Rascal! Indy has an underlying neck issue that will require attention in the future but we'll deal with that when we need too. I will probably buy him a BOT neck cover for winter having seen the superb results we've had with Rascal.

I think every horse requires managment of some sort, it just depends how far you are willing to go compared to what you want to achieve.
 
TheMule said:
Bute is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory
Cortisone is a steroidal anti-inflammatory

The kind of pain caused in joints is generally due to the inflammation response to, for example, worn cartilage. Therefore removing the inflammation does not cure the problem but does relieve the pain
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You typed the words right out of my mouth! And as for TGMs point about masking "other" pain... Well if you're up to medicating joints why wouldn't you bute up for a back injury or a muscle strain etc? Surely if you're not asking too much of the horse then this would be ok - otherwise the joint injections would fall under the same category?

Honestly, I don't mind if people choose to inject or treat the horse under veterinary supervision. If they're just keeping the horse doing the job it's happy to do and taking into account the well being of the horse then surely it's not a problem. I don't think I would do it myself though, but fortunately I've never been in that position.

As to the argument that everyone's doing it, what did people do 25 years ago?? Retire their horses a couple of years earlier? Or something more sinister?
 
Foxford said:
And as for TGMs point about masking "other" pain... Well if you're up to medicating joints why wouldn't you bute up for a back injury or a muscle strain etc? Surely if you're not asking too much of the horse then this would be ok - otherwise the joint injections would fall under the same category?
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Because some problems will get worse with work and some won't. Most vets seem to think that horses with spavins can be worked if the pain is managed, and that this might actually help the joint fuse so resolving the problem. A tendon injury is totally different, and if a horse with a grumbling tendon injury is worked hard then it is likely to breakdown, possibly irrepairedly.
 
Makes you wonder whether we should be asking the questions we are asking of horses if 99% of top level competitors have to be medicated to compete.
I'm shocked.
 
My th x wb is kept on the road as easily as possible she is such low maintenance it's unreal.

Shoes every 5 weeks, teeth 6 monthly, saddler 6 monthly and feed on simple systems greengold and simply complete. In the autumn she has 6 weeks of team chasing so will have some electrolytes and the winter she goes draghunting 2/3 times a month then tc'ing in spring. She has her chiro at the beggining of the season and again at the end. She also has my bosses PEMT and cyclonic massage rug on twice a week.

In the summer her work is scaled down to 3/4 times a week gentle hacking and schooling as opposed to the winter when it is 5/6 times a week of hard work
 
To answer the original question (great thread Lolo, thanks for starting) . . . we actually do very little - it's what we don't do that makes the difference for Kal. He is fed a high fibre/oil diet with as little sugar and starch as possible as these blow his brain and upset his stomach - so he gets ERS Pellets, an unmolassed chaff, salt, a low starch/sugar balancer (Bailey's Lo Cal) and when he needs it a boost of micronized linseed (he gets this before and after he competes particularly hard). The only supplement he gets is pure MSM to support his joints - particularly his hocks which are showing signs of mild arthritic changes. He gets daily turnout 365 days a year (unless there is snow), and in the summer months he spends some nights in the field. He gets good quality hay (haylage in the winter) fed from the floor to help keep his airways clear. Oh, and he has eggbars on in front.

What we don't do: we don't work him on hard ground - ever, he doesn't do any road work - ever, we don't feed him mixes or feeds with high sugar/starch content - ever.

Despite having navicular, sidebone and bony changes in his hocks, he is sound as a pound . . . but I keep an eagle eye on him and if/when he is no longer sound, steps will be taken - from possible medication of the joint right the way up to retiring him to be a plod.

P
 
siennamum said:
Makes you wonder whether we should be asking the questions we are asking of horses if 99% of top level competitors have to be medicated to compete.
I'm shocked.
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but what evidence do we have that this is a fact? Maybe lots of horses have joints medicated, but 99% at a top level across all disciplines?
 
Foxford said:
As to the argument that everyone's doing it, what did people do 25 years ago?? Retire their horses a couple of years earlier? Or something more sinister?
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Short answer, as one who groomed at Burghley, Badminton etc in those days - they shot their horses full of bute after XC if "necessary". It was against the rules then too, but everything was far slacker and it was easy enough to get around the rules and loads of people did it - not everyone, no doubt, but loads. I was only a teenage groom, but I had eyes ;) It was a different era, and people had different views - just like you wouldn't catch many competitors at a 4* these days having several swigs from a hip flask before they went XC :eek:

siennamum said:
Makes you wonder whether we should be asking the questions we are asking of horses if 99% of top level competitors have to be medicated to compete.
I'm shocked.
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Of course nobody knows the exact percentage and it probably isn't as high as that, but it is very common indeed and probably the norm. The point to bear in mind is that in most cases it is not a question of a horse which is lame being medicated to make it sound, but a preventative/maintenance measure. You can argue the ethics of such an approach, but it is a different argument. It would be totally wrong to suggest that 90% of top level competition horses would be unsound if they weren't injected.

This is an interesting debate. Because intervention (veterinary, nutritional, specialist equipment, whatever) is a spectrum it seems to me that any judgmental view on this subject is hard to justify. We all have to find a place along the scale of intervention that we feel comfortable with, and that place will be different for different people and in different situations. I think it is a mistake to believe that our place is "right/ethical" and someone else's is "wrong/unethical". I think several people on this thread have explained their own very different positions in a very eloquent way, but it would be unrealistic and unfair for them to expect to convert others who feel differently - not suggesting that they are trying to, by the way.

For myself, I am a pragmatist. I have seen situations where I think people have compromised their horse's welfare by refusing to take certain measures. I have seen others where people are far too fast and extreme in their interventions for my taste. I try to take each situation as it arises and see what feels right at the time.
 
This thread has really had me reading with interest. My homebred mare (7 years) is out eventing now with the aim of seeing how far she can go before becoming a broodmare. She's from a family of performers, I rode both her sire and dam. I have a real problem with breeding from an unsound horse, especially as both sire and dam were sound throughout their careers. (sire still going strong, dam competed until 14, up to 2 *) She has been getting reasonable dressage scores all season, but with the same remarks about poor walk, tight through back. Finally, because I wanted to see if I could improve her scores a bit more, I had her investigated.
Considering what she has acheived this year, it was surprising to find that she had bone spurs on the front of both hocks. One is remodelling, the other is still forming. This problem has not come from an inherent unsoundness, but from circumstances, so I am going to have her injected and see what difference it makes. I am not in favour of long term medication to keep competing, rather naive of me, but I feel it is a form of cheating. (Sorry everybody, I'm of an older generation, and this is just the way I view it). My problem is, that my mare is just going on to Novice BE, so I will be watching her like a hawk to see whether her problem will show up at a higher level.
I might add, that neither myself, my rider (v experienced) or any of the dressage judges could spot the unsoundness, and she has been consistantly fast XC with very few time penalties. In fact, apart from saving herself in the flatwork and in part, the jumping, she doesn't show any of the symptoms for what she has. Sorry for the ramble, but my mare doesn't fit the criteria for most of the horses mentioned on here.
 
I think, looking back, soundness was less scruitinised. Like, Reg's brand of problems might not have even been picked up as abnormal- horses prone to flattening all the fences and being a tiny bit stuffy wasn't so odd, even at the top. I mean, I might be wrong but that's from looking back at old videos and things, he was much freer than quite a lot of horses there.

Which brings it back to how the good old days had fewer back problems/ lameness issues. They were less checked and spotted I think. I am fairly confident that Al's crooked ex-racer would have been considered completely okay, yet we found that he needed help...
 
Great thread!
As many of you know, last year I "bought" a 15 yr old advanced dressage horse, who was going to be PTS, as he was not sound enough to compete, and not well behaved enough to be a schoolmaster.
I had a full work-up done, xrays/scans/nerve-blocks, and we discovered that he had PSD, DJD in both hocks, and lumps of calcification floating round in his stifle joint. He had Tildren for the arthritis, and the PSD was treated with shockwave and rest, plus PRP fairly recently, and remedial shoes on the back. He is now sound, and back in work - and I'm very happy to have had the benefit of medical treatment designed to prolong his working life! As yet, he hasn't had his hocks/dodgy stifle medicated, as he doesn't appear bothered by them at this point in his return to work. If he stands up to a bit of schooling, but looks like he could do with a bit of extra help, I will have no hesitation in having his joints medicated. Rather that than just saying "Oh dear, Mother Nature has decreed that he is to be uncomfortable, and who am I to disagree", I will do everything in my power to keep him ticking over happily. He's only 16, loves working, and I think it would be a crying shame to give up on him, just because he's a bit creaky!
I also think that if they are uncomfortable in work, they will be uncomfortable generally - another reason why I would happily have his joints medicated if I thought he needed it.
 
Just to add that I think many people competing (at all levels really) wouldn't admit to medicating if you asked them to their face. Too much gossiping in the horse world and people ready to watch your fall from grace if you go wrong imho. I just wish there was a quick fix for all my horses injuries tbh, if there was I'd be there like a shot!
 
Cg, I think your horse is EXACTLY the kind of situation being discussed. No one is talking about making lame horses sound, they are discussing how best to support performance horses so they can do their job comfortably and well.

Basically TD and Auslander reflected my views on the subject and I completely agree with Sf that it is not an 'open' subject. Unfortunately this gives people a false perspective but I can understand why people want to keep their business private.

I would also add that things like spavins are degenerative diseases. They WILL get worse, treated or not. Doing less with the horse will not change that, nor will it necessarily make the horse more comfortable, anymore than sitting on the sofa cures arthritis in people.

Degeneration is a fact of life - we age from the minute stop growing and it's no different for horses. And, like it or not, we all 'use' horses - that's why we pay their bills. Obviously personal choice dictates both ends of that conversation but, as TD said, it's naive to think we all don't 'manage' our horses to some degree.
 
Ours are managed individually as all have varying needs.

Arthur
He lives out at night for as much of the year as possible, when the weather limits this he goes out everyday in the turnout pen, he is often loose schooled to unleash his ridiculousness ;) he is fed for condition as is naturally a poor doer, so he has ad lib haylage, equijewel, calm and condition and a low sugar hifi and Alfa a. He is unshod behind and has to ears protective leg wraps at night as he has a tendency to get cast and rip his legs to pieces :o before big events he has a calmer more to make me feel better than any other reason :p
He sees our Physio often as Mr W feels necessary, sometimes as frequntly as monthly. When he came he was in natural balance shoes and couldn't do a medium trot, these have been removed and he is shod every 6 weeks.

Blitz
Following a near fatal collision with an electric fence post in the winter of 2008, he has been WD40'd once :p he may need a to up in the future. Blitz goes up every day whatever the weather till lunchtime and enjoys company so usually goes out next to Trevor who is his bestest friend. Arthur and Blitz can't go out next to each other as they play tag over the fence and then race up and down before repeating tag! :rolleyes: my nerves can't take it! He would love to share a paddock with CP but she's not having any of it and for the time being at least I don't want any mini CPitz! :eek:
He is a creature of habit and everyday he lays down at 2pm and has a snooze. He has a sweet tooth so likes sweet feeds and haylage, in the early days he was poor doer so we feed h whatever he would eat which usually consisted of horrible sweet chaff smothered in molasses :o
He is shod all round with wide feathered shoes to help with the push from behind. He sees the Physio monthly.

CP
Lives out unless the weather is really bad, is clipped most of the year as she has a common coat so gets warm. She is also shod allround despite having great feet, the Physio feels this helps her hind leg support more, given she is built downhill its a big ask to change a horse's way of going so am happy to help her wherever we can. She sees the Physio monthly, he has been instrumental in changing her way of going and helping her body adjust from a banana to a bouncy ball! She is a very poor doer in the winter and is very sugar sensitive so I am very careful about her access to grass, feed and haylage. She tends to be fed mountains of good dry hay and clam and condition, tried linseed did absolutely nothing and equijewel was like rocket fuel for her :o
 
Well I've got 2 opposites to say they are both Dales ponies. My 7 year old has had to have his hocks injected (fingers crossed he'll only need it the once) and has a joint supplement, codliver oil in his feed with 24/7 turnout. He also is banned from mix as it makes him very stressy so it's just chaff, beet and conditioning cubes in winter.
This is also a pony that Im fanatical about joints with and wasn't broken until he was 5 as he was immature.
My other is 4 and has just started work which is mostly hacking with odd schooling sessions thrown in but will not be doing any jumping until at least next year maybe the year after as it takes natives so long to mature fully. She also has just started living in overnight and out all day with year round turnout from 24/7 turnout.
She gets the codliver oil, chaff and beet. Mix if doing an odd show.
 
Worried, can I ask about 'wide feathered' shoes? I know 'wide web' and 'feathered edge' but I'm not up on dressage horse shoeing these days.
 
TarrSteps said:
Worried, can I ask about 'wide feathered' shoes? I know 'wide web' and 'feathered edge' but I'm not up on dressage horse shoeing these days.
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It's just a mishmash of the two, a slightly longer shoe with a wider edge which has been feathered on the outside to try and reduce chance of being pulled off, it was something that Mr W's trainer suggested we try.

It aims to give a wider base to 'push' off the hind leg.
 
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