What do you feed your good doers in summer/winter?

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LankyDoodle

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One feed company recommends I feed G 2kg low calorie chaff a day plus the 4kg hay, soaked if I need to (he will only eat if it is literally dipped and then out again) and then restrict his grazing (which I have been doing anyway - muzzle on eaten down paddock).

So what do you feed your good-doers in summer/winter? I have been giving him the recommended hifi lite alongside the hay and his 4-5 hours muzzled grazing on eaten down paddock. He has never had hard feeds in any season other than winter, but I started doing this firstly to mix in his formula4 feet and secondly because I have been riding him loads and he is very lacking in energy: hifi lite provides slow release energy and is low sugar.

He's not exactly that overweight and never was extremely fat really, but I still want to get more weight off for going into winter, but am caught in this trap that his energy is toolow to sustain a walk that will encourage fat loss, so I feed the hifi lite which probably takes more cals to chew than is actually in it... but am I doing the right thing? I've never ever fed hard feed between the months of March and November so it's all new to me. I usually feed hifi lite with garlic in winter as well, but I add sugar beet and a lo-cal balancer and he's out as much as possible, again with lightly soaked hay. He also gets the odd carrot in winter. I try not to rug unless I really have to.

I've been told by one person to stop the hifi lite, stick with the f4f, but give a small amount of spiller's quick release before a ride. I am a bit nervous about that, though. Any advice?
 
Grass!!! ok, and a handful of Allen and Page herbal quiet mix for the oldies and light comp mix for the youngies. This is only so we can mix in garlic etc, they do not need the food
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Winter: grass, hay, sugar beet, old faithful for the oldies and light competition mix for the ones in proper work - plus maybe some oats
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I think your feeding regimen is very complicated!!! Ours are out 24/7 in the summer, and all bar one are good doers. How hairy is he? I find ours lack energy towards the end of the summer due to their coats changing and it being too warm for them. So they were fully clipped a couple of weeks ago, seems to put the sparkle back into them and bar the first two nights out in the field, they have not worn rugs
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If your horse is lazy, you need to alter the way you ride him, to make him more active. Carry a whip and if he does not respond to your leg aid, put some spurs one. It is better to give him a small poke with some spurs, than to keep banging away with your legs all through the ride.

What to feed him - if restricted grass is still keeping him fat, then he is clearly getting enough nourishment from it. Tubby horses seem to get nothing to eat, yet look well covered, we all want to give them something in a bucket, when they clearly don't need it. You don't say how big he is, but 6kg of forage plus grazing is quite a lot of food if you are trying to get something to lose weight.

If the field is eaten down, take the muzzle off and only give him something like a feed balancer which will give him all the minerals and vitamins he needs. If you are convinced he needs some bulk, then weigh it and give him 4kg max.
 
Thanks but I do carry a whip and always have done because he used to be quite nappy when we bought him. I use 2 whips in the school. He's not lazy because before this diet started 3 weeks ago he was very forward going out on hacks, but since I have cut him right back (he was initially getting 4 hours in a grazing muzzle and hay that had been soaked for 24 hours, plus hacked 1-2 times a day and schooled once a day) he is lacking in energy. On advice from a feed company I introduced the chaff for slow-release energy but, as per my post, I am nervous about this as I only usually give a small amount of hard feed between November and March.

He isn't an easy ride because he'd been abused in his last home and didn't trust people, so you have to really want it with him, but he IS forward going and has a nice long stride. He is really good at listening to my aids properly, but if I muck up then he doesn't give it, simple as that - he'll throw in a little buck. He's fine with me now as I have had him 6 years but if anyone else rides him in the school, they usually get off purple or blue or variations of. I use my legs effectively to get him going forward and it's always been fine, I've never needed spurs to get that - if you ask for it, you get it from him, but he's not the sort that you just sit on and they give even if you don't ask properly. But I suppose a combination of him losing our mare 3 weeks ago (who he was very very attached to) and being put on a strict diet 3 weeks ago, has sapped his energy and get up and go and he now plods out whatever I do. It's not that he's not doing what I ask him to do, he's just got the handbrake on a bit.

As I said, he's not actually fat per se anymore and has lost loads of weight anyway, but we lost our mare to stress-induced lami 3 weeks ago and I don't want him to get it
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I don't want to feed him hard feed and never have apart from in Winter, but he was so lacking in energy which then defeats the object of the exercise because he is not walking out enough to burn the fat.

He is a 15.1hh cob and the feed company said I should be feeding him 4kg hay, soaked if necessary, plus 4 hours on a paddock with a muzzle and chaff. This is what I have been doing for the last week, but as I'm not of the 'feed in summer' aversion, it's been making me nervous. He does seem to regulate his own intake of food, though, because he won't eat all his chaff or hay all the time... sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, but he's never been a gannet and can sometimes be seen just standing in the field not grazing.

I really don't think he needs a balancer at the moment. He gets one in winter. He gets the hay obviously as well. He looks really healthy and well, maintains a perfect shine in his coat without excessive grooming (and I don't use products on him because he has sweet itch and I don't want to irritate it).

The real issue is not whether he's getting enough vits and mins or whether I ride him correctly, but whether he has enough energy, and for the last few weeks he hasn't done, so I, as someone who doesn't rely on hard feed, did what I was advised, nervously. He's 585kg on the weight tape now, so is probably around the 550 mark, 1.5% of which is about 8kg and 2.5% of which is about 14kg that he should be getting each day. He's gone from 640 to 585 on the weight tape since July 11th, so he's most definitely losing the weight.

I've got people at my yard who are not that knowledgeable, telling me I am starving my horse, punishing him for being the one that didn't die, telling me that he looks too lean now (he doesn't). It really pees me off because as far as I am concerned they are trying to make themselves feel better for having obese ponies/horses. It also pees me off because not one of them knows how painful it is to lose your horse to laminitis when there was nothing you could do to prevent it.

George has quite a fine coat at the moment but it is beginning to get thicker - he is losing his dapples as well. The last 2 years I haven't clipped him and have only rugged when I have absolutely had to, because I try to keep him out as much as possible in winter and he'll use his own fat stores to keep him warm, coming into spring a bit trimmer ready for the good grass. But other years I have clipped him in late October-November time and it takes til June for the summer coat to come through, which is a pain because I do try to show him as well.
 
If he isn't eating everything you give him, then he's not that hungry and if he's losing weight slowly that is good. If I was you I would ignore advise from other people on your yard. I am lucky I keep my horses at home, so I have none of this "expert advice".

Try to stop worrying, you sound like you are still very upset about the loss of your other horse, which is understandable. I am sure your horse will be fine, he sounds like you care a lot about his welfare. Stick to your regime, the low calorie high fibre diet he is on is the best thing for him, in fact all leisure horses really.
 
My fattie mare got up to 2kg Safe and Sound divided up into two feeds a day, ad lib hay and turnout 12 hours / day on fairly well-grazed pasture. If there was more grass, I would reduce feed and vice versa. Very little change summer or winter, except in winter I occasionally added a handful of Pasture Nuts or some Equivite. I worked her 5 times / week for at least half hour, or hacked for at least an hour. It suited her really well and everyone we know has commented on what good condition she kept through the seasons.
Sounds like you have some mean people at your yard!
A lot of people fall into the trap of 'feeding for performance' and so I've seen obese horses chugging around looking knackered while their owners cry 'but I'm feeding him so much, he should have so much energy'. I agree with tracey01 in every way - you are doing the right thing.
Also, keeping him fit will make it easier for his metabolism to get the energy from the feed, so regular work is a must, according to what he can do and what is comfortable for him.
Good luck!!
 
I always have to watch Toff's weight, at the moment she is in during the day and has 4lbs of soaked (12 hours) hay and 1/2kg of Hifi Lite (takes her longer to munch) She is out at night on poor grazing which is being slowly strip grazed. For feed she has 1 mug of Bailey's LoCal twice a day with half a square scoop of chaff. She is looking well on this and has just the right amount of energy, despite being naturally very lazy!
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Thank you, everyone. George refuses to eat his hay if it is soaked for too long. He did for a couple of weeks but then stopped eating it and then one night threw a strop and pulled all the hay out of his hay bar and flung it across his bed, huffing and puffing. I soak it for half an hour and then rinse it.

Like I said, he goes out at 1pm (because I usually get there at 10, do my jobs and then ride him before turning out, but didn't today) and then he's brought in at between 430 and 530pm. He was wearing a muzzle but the last day or so he's been managing to pull it off from UNDERNEATH his fly mask! :S He's on poor grazing anyway and it's only a small paddock, so I am happy for him not to wear it (it's wearing the hair around his face away anyway!). He then comes in and has the soaked hay overnight, but the last 6 or 7 days he's also been getting a feed of 1kg hifi lite and half his quota of f4f at night and then another identical feed in the morning.

Like tracey said, I think I need to stop worrying. Other years I've happily taken him through summer out at night and in during the day with a tiny amount of hay that's lightly soaked. No hard feeds or supps at all. Touch wood, he's never had laminitis as far as I know, and he is nearly 18 and full of health and vitality. George is the kind of horse that WILL gain weight between April and August but it slowly tails off and then in the winter months he naturally loses it even though I give a hard feed to him in winter. He goes into spring quite trim. That's him, he's a good doer but not vastly so.

I am still in shock mode from my mare being pts and I hope it calms down soon. He gets exercised loads and the person who said his feed regime is complicated is right, it is and I find it really hard to get my head round because I've never faffed like this before. So I'm going to stick to the limited grazing but not put the muzzle on, give a couple of slices of soaked hay when he's in at night and then he'll get his f4f mixed with a bit of garlic and some chaff in the morning. I'll keep up the riding. Next Thursday we go to Cornwall for 2.5 weeks and we tend to ride out all day some days, over varying terrain. He gets loads of lessons as well as the person we stay with, who has become a great friend, is a qualified instructor. So I think things are going to be just fine
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Thank you. x
 
His feeding regime is what I'd expect from a severe lamintic. I suspect he's just not getting enough to eat, hence being lazy.

If he's never had laminitis before, and has been on grass before, he's unlikely to get it now, esp as he's not particularly fat now as it is.

I'd forget about soaking the hay and I'd have him unmuzzled in his starvation paddock, or muzzled out with his friends (my prefered option). Muzzled in a starvation paddock means he's getting pretty much nothing at all to eat.

I wouldn't worry too much about having him loose all his weight before winter - I'd use the winter to do it for you.
 
Why has feeding become so complicated? Good doers at grass can be muzzled. When they come in they have a small wet net, a handful of chaff with a vitamin and mineral supplement in and if they are fat they work until they raise a slight sweat or a puff.

Please dont feed according to the bag or you will be piling weight ON to your horse.

My ID gets grass at night, chaff and a carrot for breakfast and three flaps of hay in the stable. if its all gone be teatime he gets a bit more and if there is some left he gets a bit less. He is fine and is perfectly capable of doing the light work I ask of him.

My cob is the total opposite and requires conditioning all year round. Now given they are both the same staure if not the same size you would assume, if you were a feed company, that they should have a similar diet....they certainly dont!
 
good-doer, pink powder, salt and soaked hay at night. He is out on a starvation patch, no muzzle. He has not put on any weight this year and my vets have said how well he looks on it. Oddly enough my vets think his weight is ideal but some people on my yard have said that he is looking a bit thin!!!
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Some how I think I'll stick to my vets opinion!
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Hi kallibear - he's not actually in a starvy paddock as such. At our yard there are 2 horses in each paddock and before our mare died it was George and her. Now he's on his own. We always tend to strip graze in summer. He's been on a quarter of the paddock (which is about the size of 3 tennish courts) for the last 8 weeks or so. It's not exactly a bare paddock. Also, I didn't mean lose all the weight for winter - he naturally does lose weight over winter, but he's still too fat in my mind.

Spaniel - feeding has got so complicated because I have just lost my mare to stess-induced lami and I am scared he will get it too. Feeding him used to be easy - overnight grass and small amount of hay in summer; 2 feeds of hifi lite with sugar beet, garlic and lo-cal balancer between November-March. He was getting no chaff or anything, until I started noticing he was lacking energy, so I called the feed company. Now he gets hifi lite alongside the soaked hay and his grass. I know he can be muzzled - that is what I have been doing!!!! He will not eat hay if it is soaked for too long so I just dip it then rinse it and put it straight in. I have messed around with different routines over the last few weeks because I have never dieted him before and found it hard straight away to say what would and wouldn't work, so I went in slow while the mare was still alive and then went into overdrive when she'd gone. It doesn't help that everyone you talk to tells you different things - you only have to look here for that. So I did what I thought was best for my horse within what I know about him and his weight fluctuations throughout the year, and I either get shot down for starving him or shot down for feeding him too much.

As I said, I've never ever had any issues with feeding him but I just watched my mare die from laminitis. As far as I am concerned George looks no different than he has done every other year - fat in summer! But I don't want him to be fat so I am dieting him. He gets ridden at least once a day for at least one hour - more often than not it is twice a day. He's gone from 640 to 585 on the weight tape so he is losing weight. Firstly, though, his fitness is not going to improve if he walks out at snails pace; secondly, it's flippin' boring and I'm not used to him being so ploddy!

I agree with you kallibear that he wasn't getting enough to eat with 4-5 hours on an eaten down paddock and soaked hay, but as I've said, I am scared he's going to get it because as you saw from the picture on that thread last week, although he's not that huge, he's certainly not slim! I know logically that any horse can get it, fat or thin. Sparkle was 15 and had also never had laminitis, but she died from it 3 weeks ago. I put up everyday with people at my yard telling me I am starving him, abusing him, punishing him for being the one that is alive, but I can't help worrying that he'll die as well. Why should I keep my horse fat just to satisfy their sensibilities?

I've had him 6 years and never had any issues with feeding; and believe it or not it is driving me mad that I can't stop worrying. I lie in bed at night worrying about it...
 
Hi Carrie,

Firstly your doing a great job!!
Your feeding seems fine to me, as you know I've just put mine on the spillers instant energy mix. Today it did absolutely nothing! Like a bloody donkey
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I hate walking slow.
So its been; squeeze, nothing: kick, nothing; kick and a smack bum, nothing!;
As someone else says, I think its the humidity and the fact that the coats are getting thicker.

I feed mine the same all year ( not the mix that's just testing ) hi-fi-lite, loads and loads of this! speedi-beet ( about a couple of handfuls) and baileys low-cal.

Try not to worry, and stick a finger up to the others, can you move yards? why do you live down there when I have lots of room here!
Enjoy your holiday
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Carrie Im so sorry to hear that you lost your mare recently and can now totally understand why you are having all this anguish with your cob.

Its very hard to not to fixate on something when you ave been through a trauma like this but I certainly dont feel you are starving your horse and the weight he is now sounds more than acceptable given the amount he has lost already.

Your normal feeding regime sounds fine to me. Horses are designed to live on scrub in the summer, the grass that does come through is potent stuff and it doesnt need to be six inches deep to sustain a good doer as you know.

I know you say he has never suffered from laminitis in the past but its not true to say that a horse that hasnt had it will never get it. Your grazing sounds ideal and it seems you are looking more for something to add a little sparkle to your horses attitude to work. If you really are doing your best to motivate him them I might consider something like Instant Response cubes from Spillers. You dont need much and given he has already lost some weight the benefit you could get from the added enegy would probably balance out the potential weight gain it could give you.

Personally I would stick as you are until the end of the summer when the grass has a lull in strength before it flushes again in the autumn. Plus it will get cooler and it will be easier to motivate your horse in work.

Frustratingly it takes a lot longer to get them toned and fit than it does to put weight on them.....bit like me really, so keep plugging away.

These feelings you have now will pass as the months go on, losing a horse is never easy but the chances of you having a second stress induced case must be miniscule.

Chin up and try not to worry.
 
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