Nickymac
Well-Known Member
No need to shout
What do you think about Parelli?
- Thread starter HHO admin
- Start date
Mid
Well-Known Member
Also, horses don't play like we do. Humans, and all the other playful animals play in practice for hunting and fighting. They're all predators... Kittens (lol), dogs... Horses are flight animals.
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
Yay Bananaman the voice of reason...it infuriates me to hear it called a carrot stick! (and it is used as a stick believe me, I watched the demo team getting ready behind the arena at a show, carrot my eye...!)
X
xspiralx
Guest
The reason you don't see these things, is firstly because not all people are interested in building that kind of a bond with their horse, simple as.
Secondly, because a lot of people aren't skilled enough.
However many people do have a fabulous bond with their horse who will do anything for them - but they do not have to prance around bareback to prove it. I could ride my last horse bareback and jump if I wished, but thats not what I'm interested in, so I rarely bothered. You don't have to play "games" to have a good bond with your horse.
Secondly, because a lot of people aren't skilled enough.
However many people do have a fabulous bond with their horse who will do anything for them - but they do not have to prance around bareback to prove it. I could ride my last horse bareback and jump if I wished, but thats not what I'm interested in, so I rarely bothered. You don't have to play "games" to have a good bond with your horse.
Mid
Well-Known Member
Exactly - Prancing around bareback is really showing off
Doublethyme
Well-Known Member
So are any Parelli advocates going to justify and answer my previous comment about Parelli backing 2 year olds and setting up and competing in distasteful "contests" in the US? Also, his wife's rather contentious advice to people on how to use your seat on a horse? ie shovelling your backside underneath?
I'm not anti NH at all, use some of the techniques to a lesser or greater extent with my mare and abhor some "traditional" methods, but I do object to Parelli and other NH techniques being marketed and held up by the followers as 100% kinder than anything else.
Plus what about the many NH followers who have left the Parelli umbrella to follow softer versions of the techniques under different instructors/organisations because they felt Parelli was too harsh?! You only have to read places like the IHDG to know that there are quite a few of these people.
When I have seen demos etc, I have to start with been impressed by the showmanship - it does catch the eye, but the you start to notice the deadness in the eyes of the horses and the automatic "routines" they follow. It left me with a feeling of wrongness which I can't fully explain, as I do think that the techniques can be useful, but IMO are often over done and practised far too much leading to a horse which is bored stiff, scared to express itself and switched off.
I'm not anti NH at all, use some of the techniques to a lesser or greater extent with my mare and abhor some "traditional" methods, but I do object to Parelli and other NH techniques being marketed and held up by the followers as 100% kinder than anything else.
Plus what about the many NH followers who have left the Parelli umbrella to follow softer versions of the techniques under different instructors/organisations because they felt Parelli was too harsh?! You only have to read places like the IHDG to know that there are quite a few of these people.
When I have seen demos etc, I have to start with been impressed by the showmanship - it does catch the eye, but the you start to notice the deadness in the eyes of the horses and the automatic "routines" they follow. It left me with a feeling of wrongness which I can't fully explain, as I do think that the techniques can be useful, but IMO are often over done and practised far too much leading to a horse which is bored stiff, scared to express itself and switched off.
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The reason you don't see these things, is firstly because not all people are interested in building that kind of a bond with their horse, simple as.
Secondly, because a lot of people aren't skilled enough.
However many people do have a fabulous bond with their horse who will do anything for them - but they do not have to prance around bareback to prove it. I could ride my last horse bareback and jump if I wished, but thats not what I'm interested in, so I rarely bothered. You don't have to play "games" to have a good bond with your horse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said.
The reason you don't see these things, is firstly because not all people are interested in building that kind of a bond with their horse, simple as.
Secondly, because a lot of people aren't skilled enough.
However many people do have a fabulous bond with their horse who will do anything for them - but they do not have to prance around bareback to prove it. I could ride my last horse bareback and jump if I wished, but thats not what I'm interested in, so I rarely bothered. You don't have to play "games" to have a good bond with your horse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said.
Kaye46
New User
You're right, horses are prey animals but they do play. They play lots of games with each other e.g. they play at moving each other around (ever watched them play the 'I can move your feet' game?) and this is practice for moving up the pecking order within the herd. Parelli is not about doing tricks with your horse, it teaches you about horse behaviour and psychology which you can then use to communicate with horses more effectively
Ever had a horse play the 'I can can nip you and move my head out of the way before you can retaliate' game? The 'I can move away from the mounting block just as you're about to get on game'?
Horses play with us all the time, but we just don't recognise it
Ever had a horse play the 'I can can nip you and move my head out of the way before you can retaliate' game? The 'I can move away from the mounting block just as you're about to get on game'?
Horses play with us all the time, but we just don't recognise it
RCAWilson
Member
We who 'do' parelli are not bothered what other people think when watching us with our horses, we realise it looks a bit wierd, 'prancing' around bareback? Right...... all I care about is having fun with my horse! I don't care if you think I'm showing off, you can leave and I will still be doing what I'm doing. I don't let what others think get in the way of my relationship with my horse.
And yes I know horses are flight animals, and that I'm a predator..... god help me.....
And yes I know horses are flight animals, and that I'm a predator..... god help me.....
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Glad someone else commented on Linda Parelli's awful riding position.
As i mentioned in another thread, i saw a video of her demo'ing the basics of her "riding with fluidity" and was appalled by what she was preeching. It was posted on the Enlightened Equitation forums and i cant for the life of me find it (still looking though).
In most worlds what she does is called a chair seat
As i mentioned in another thread, i saw a video of her demo'ing the basics of her "riding with fluidity" and was appalled by what she was preeching. It was posted on the Enlightened Equitation forums and i cant for the life of me find it (still looking though).
In most worlds what she does is called a chair seat
Enfys
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Those of you who say 'Parelli does'nt work on all horses' or 'Parelli ruined this horse' etc.
I'd like to see you give that horse to Pat Parelli, I think you would be suprised- he is an amazing horseman, and he has done a wonderful thing by giving us some of his vast knowledge.
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I am sure he has his quota of success, so do many, many other unsung horsemen and women from all spheres of equestrianism.
"and he has done a wonderful thing by giving us some of his vast knowledge. " .....But, he's not giving it , he's a canny businessman, making a living, he's selling it and sometimes making it sound like a quick fix remedy, which it isn't.
Someone mentioned being able to ride a horse with nothing on it's head, sorry, but that's such a silly and dangerous thing to say. It's not clever when so many impressionable people read, or see, his work. I am pretty sure that if my 11 year old daughter went to see a demonstration she would come home and want to try things, including riding without any form of bridle/halter and not realising that there was far more involved than jumping on and away you go!
Those of you who say 'Parelli does'nt work on all horses' or 'Parelli ruined this horse' etc.
I'd like to see you give that horse to Pat Parelli, I think you would be suprised- he is an amazing horseman, and he has done a wonderful thing by giving us some of his vast knowledge.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure he has his quota of success, so do many, many other unsung horsemen and women from all spheres of equestrianism.
"and he has done a wonderful thing by giving us some of his vast knowledge. " .....But, he's not giving it , he's a canny businessman, making a living, he's selling it and sometimes making it sound like a quick fix remedy, which it isn't.
Someone mentioned being able to ride a horse with nothing on it's head, sorry, but that's such a silly and dangerous thing to say. It's not clever when so many impressionable people read, or see, his work. I am pretty sure that if my 11 year old daughter went to see a demonstration she would come home and want to try things, including riding without any form of bridle/halter and not realising that there was far more involved than jumping on and away you go!
SavvyHorse
Member
you know I've done the BHS riding position and also the Linda Parelli one and do you know which one my horse prefers me to do....yep, you got it the Linda Parelli one. My horses now offer more extended gaits, more natural flexion and I am more in tune with my horses body. Riding like this has helped my horse be freer in her movements.
I can now ask for wonderful 'on the bit' dressage moves in a rope hackamore with my horse wanting to do this rather than me pulling her neck in to get a position. My horse is giving rather than being told. Cool!
I feel that if more youngsters learned horsemanship rather than about winning competitions first then the competitions later would be won with the dignity of the horse in place and fun had by horse and rider.
I can honestly say too that Pat does Give lots of his knowledge and his time and his equipement away to lots of people but he's canny enough to give it to those who he knows will really use it and not abuse it. There's nothing worse than giving to people who dont' appreciate it.
Also remember that with all your comments about Linda's position, you are really saying that anyone who rides differently than the BHS style is WRONG....not very nice to western riders for a start.
Shelley
I can now ask for wonderful 'on the bit' dressage moves in a rope hackamore with my horse wanting to do this rather than me pulling her neck in to get a position. My horse is giving rather than being told. Cool!
I feel that if more youngsters learned horsemanship rather than about winning competitions first then the competitions later would be won with the dignity of the horse in place and fun had by horse and rider.
I can honestly say too that Pat does Give lots of his knowledge and his time and his equipement away to lots of people but he's canny enough to give it to those who he knows will really use it and not abuse it. There's nothing worse than giving to people who dont' appreciate it.
Also remember that with all your comments about Linda's position, you are really saying that anyone who rides differently than the BHS style is WRONG....not very nice to western riders for a start.
Shelley
viola
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly - Prancing around bareback is really showing off
[/ QUOTE ]
That's so sad to hear someone say things like that
My horse had to have a sarcoid removed from girth area and I couldn't ride him in a saddle for 5 months. I didn't want to stop riding him so rode bareback only for all that time. It's amazing how much feel you get for the horse and how more tune in you are through this (and no I am not 'a middle aged woman without common sense' and I was crazy about competing etc back then). I didn't do it to show off but to improve my riding and to keep him fit.
I was also taught by an 'old school' trainer who thought that if you cannot jump and ride your horse bareback you aren't a good rider
Exactly - Prancing around bareback is really showing off
[/ QUOTE ]
That's so sad to hear someone say things like that
I was also taught by an 'old school' trainer who thought that if you cannot jump and ride your horse bareback you aren't a good rider
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
You can make a training stick quite easily yourself, also rope halters, there are instructions all over the Net. In fact, to make sure a rope halter fits properly it's best to knot one for each individual horse. I'm too lazy for that, so have brought mine, but slightly cheaper than Parelli. Some of the really cheap ones are to be avoided, because of things like rope ends being finished in metal... but that's another story.
Pat P, to be fair, does say "this is so old it's new" - and admits that he has packaged up a load of knowledge in the hope it will make it easier for people to learn. But it could have been packaged more cheaply possibly.
When I've been to Parelli and other NH clinics I never thought they were that expensive, if you broke it down to a per hour price. And, as I didn't need to go weekly or anything it didn't break the bank.
There are aspects of Parelli that can be quite harsh and personally they don't sit well with me. That is why I and many others moved away from Parelli once we started to study more widely and learn about different approaches. Certainly for me the fact that I have learnt a lot of NH type stuff doesn't make me feel superior to other horse people, nor do I feel the need to try to imply that they are somehow not as good with their horses. There are amazing experts on this site who I know think NH is a complete waste of time, and that's not a problem for me, I respect their skill. They do amazing things like cross country that scare the wits out of me!
I do sometimes think although that Parelli did a good thing in introducing NH to a lot of people, now that can have a negative impact because it is the best-known approach to NH - but maybe not the best. So many people think Parelli=NH, which is very far from true.
Pat P, to be fair, does say "this is so old it's new" - and admits that he has packaged up a load of knowledge in the hope it will make it easier for people to learn. But it could have been packaged more cheaply possibly.
When I've been to Parelli and other NH clinics I never thought they were that expensive, if you broke it down to a per hour price. And, as I didn't need to go weekly or anything it didn't break the bank.
There are aspects of Parelli that can be quite harsh and personally they don't sit well with me. That is why I and many others moved away from Parelli once we started to study more widely and learn about different approaches. Certainly for me the fact that I have learnt a lot of NH type stuff doesn't make me feel superior to other horse people, nor do I feel the need to try to imply that they are somehow not as good with their horses. There are amazing experts on this site who I know think NH is a complete waste of time, and that's not a problem for me, I respect their skill. They do amazing things like cross country that scare the wits out of me!
I do sometimes think although that Parelli did a good thing in introducing NH to a lot of people, now that can have a negative impact because it is the best-known approach to NH - but maybe not the best. So many people think Parelli=NH, which is very far from true.
RCAWilson
Member
Pat Parelli backing 2 yr olds? Please, I'd like to hear more of this, explain more!!
Distasteful contests? Who can back their horse the fastest? We teach our horses to be very responsive when asked to do something, like back up, so to someone unfamiliar with seeing horse go backwards quickly it might seem odd, but Pat has the horses interests first and would never force a horse to do something or cause unnecessary stress. So a 'contest' to see whose horse is most responsive is hardly what I'd call distastful, but then again...the ignorance thing...
Linda has done nothing new with teaching people to sit 'on their bums' rather then the more dressage seat, have you ever seen western riding? Ever seen reining? The horses are very engaged, rounded, relaxed and responsive. So what's wrong with sitting like this? When taught to sit like this, properly, with no tension, the horses immediately change and relax more, they round and so the consequences of this are (with a proporly fitted saddle, no restricted shoulders) a better topline, more muscle in the right places. However I am not saying they Classical seat it awful, I have studied it for many years and am a great admirer of Sylvia Loch and consider the Late Nuno Oliviera a remarkable man, but not many people are as talented as them. It's just different, that's all, the horses are'nt complaining!
I have never heard of people going to 'softer' methods, I don't really get that. Some people might have a problem with being the 'alpha', though I don't know, some people just can't be bothered I guess.
And deadness of Pat and Linda's horses eyes? What? Sorry but really cannot agree with you there, they are all about having fun, when you see them with their horses, you can see how much fun the horses are having! They always talk about variety and challenges. And scared to express themselves and stiff is COMPLETELY not what they are! I think you are confusing this with calm, unfazed and tuned in horses. Robotic, 'dead'? Absoloutely not.
Distasteful contests? Who can back their horse the fastest? We teach our horses to be very responsive when asked to do something, like back up, so to someone unfamiliar with seeing horse go backwards quickly it might seem odd, but Pat has the horses interests first and would never force a horse to do something or cause unnecessary stress. So a 'contest' to see whose horse is most responsive is hardly what I'd call distastful, but then again...the ignorance thing...
Linda has done nothing new with teaching people to sit 'on their bums' rather then the more dressage seat, have you ever seen western riding? Ever seen reining? The horses are very engaged, rounded, relaxed and responsive. So what's wrong with sitting like this? When taught to sit like this, properly, with no tension, the horses immediately change and relax more, they round and so the consequences of this are (with a proporly fitted saddle, no restricted shoulders) a better topline, more muscle in the right places. However I am not saying they Classical seat it awful, I have studied it for many years and am a great admirer of Sylvia Loch and consider the Late Nuno Oliviera a remarkable man, but not many people are as talented as them. It's just different, that's all, the horses are'nt complaining!
I have never heard of people going to 'softer' methods, I don't really get that. Some people might have a problem with being the 'alpha', though I don't know, some people just can't be bothered I guess.
And deadness of Pat and Linda's horses eyes? What? Sorry but really cannot agree with you there, they are all about having fun, when you see them with their horses, you can see how much fun the horses are having! They always talk about variety and challenges. And scared to express themselves and stiff is COMPLETELY not what they are! I think you are confusing this with calm, unfazed and tuned in horses. Robotic, 'dead'? Absoloutely not.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
There are more methods out there than BHS versus Linda Parelli and her position, from a classical point of view, is awful. Im not a fan of BHS methods at all and ive been very vocal of that on here - what does that make me? You have no idea because the ignorance you preech against is EXACTLY what you're displaying here!
Wonderful "on the bit" dressage moves?
Give me a break! You tell us in another post not to be ignorant of methods you know nothing about, how about doing the same? Pulling the neck to get an outline? Who advocates this exactly? Ive been both classically trained and had lessons with a modern dressage rider more inclined towards the German school. Two very contradictory schools of thought and NEITHER of them advocate pulling the horses' neck in precisely because it creates a break in the neck at the incorrect vertebra.
A true outline comes from riding from behind, its nothing to do with pulling the neck in. You know where the FEI guidelines for that wonderful dressage come from? The Spanish Riding School - nothing to do with the BHS at all and still what she teaches and how her horse moves comes nowhere near those guidelines!
You are speaking like you're the only school of thought that puts the horses welfare at the centre of everything you do - once again, wake up.
Incidently, my horse will work "on the bit" as you like to call it on a completly loose rein. Except, "on the bit" for me is a wrong term as it implies some kind of force. So, i'll rephrase, my horse will work in a classically correct outline, on a completly lose rein because he has been taught correctly - classically - thats called self carriage. Whats more his outline is correct, which is not what pat parelli's horses show! There is a world of difference between a bend in the neck and a correct outline.
Wonderful "on the bit" dressage moves?
Give me a break! You tell us in another post not to be ignorant of methods you know nothing about, how about doing the same? Pulling the neck to get an outline? Who advocates this exactly? Ive been both classically trained and had lessons with a modern dressage rider more inclined towards the German school. Two very contradictory schools of thought and NEITHER of them advocate pulling the horses' neck in precisely because it creates a break in the neck at the incorrect vertebra.
A true outline comes from riding from behind, its nothing to do with pulling the neck in. You know where the FEI guidelines for that wonderful dressage come from? The Spanish Riding School - nothing to do with the BHS at all and still what she teaches and how her horse moves comes nowhere near those guidelines!
You are speaking like you're the only school of thought that puts the horses welfare at the centre of everything you do - once again, wake up.
Incidently, my horse will work "on the bit" as you like to call it on a completly loose rein. Except, "on the bit" for me is a wrong term as it implies some kind of force. So, i'll rephrase, my horse will work in a classically correct outline, on a completly lose rein because he has been taught correctly - classically - thats called self carriage. Whats more his outline is correct, which is not what pat parelli's horses show! There is a world of difference between a bend in the neck and a correct outline.
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I think the video you need to find re backing the 2yr olds is called "In a Whisper". Pat and two other trainers take baby 2 year olds and race to see who can back them and get them to complete a set of tasks quickest. It's rather reminicent of watching the Ray Hunt sessions on the Dorrance benefit video. I must admit, it's not pretty, and Pat is a great heavy lump to be sitting on the baby horse he has.
You say the horses aren't complaining about Riding With Fluidity, but I think you'll find they are. Last time I was with some Parelli people they were saying that horses were starting to show physical problems. A good site to search for info on this though is Enlightened Equitation. They call it Riding With Floppidity on there.
If you don't know about people going to softer methods... have you been to see other nh trainers in action? When people talk about softer methods they are generally refering to trainers who teach that it isn't necessary to use 4 increasing phases of pressure.
I have to say, since I moved away from Parelli I have realised that there are trainers out there who do seem a lot fairer on the horses. And who also seem to be able to manage to get "Level 3" refinement from day 1. Which did make me rather regret all the time I wasted on my Parelli levels 2 + 3.
You say the horses aren't complaining about Riding With Fluidity, but I think you'll find they are. Last time I was with some Parelli people they were saying that horses were starting to show physical problems. A good site to search for info on this though is Enlightened Equitation. They call it Riding With Floppidity on there.
If you don't know about people going to softer methods... have you been to see other nh trainers in action? When people talk about softer methods they are generally refering to trainers who teach that it isn't necessary to use 4 increasing phases of pressure.
I have to say, since I moved away from Parelli I have realised that there are trainers out there who do seem a lot fairer on the horses. And who also seem to be able to manage to get "Level 3" refinement from day 1. Which did make me rather regret all the time I wasted on my Parelli levels 2 + 3.
Doublethyme
Well-Known Member
2 year olds/contests...........I suggest you catch up with a DVD called "in a whisper" - here is a thread on the EE board discussing it.....
EE thread "in a whisper"
As for your comments about the BHS seat - neither Tierra nor I, who I believe were the two that mentioned about Linda P's seat, mentioned comparing it to the BHS!?
As I said, I'm not anti all parelli stuff, but it does annoy me when its held up as some sort of higher achievement, when many people have happy, healthy horses without it!
Edited to add - you beat me to it Tinypony, with once again, a really good informative post.
EE thread "in a whisper"
As for your comments about the BHS seat - neither Tierra nor I, who I believe were the two that mentioned about Linda P's seat, mentioned comparing it to the BHS!?
As I said, I'm not anti all parelli stuff, but it does annoy me when its held up as some sort of higher achievement, when many people have happy, healthy horses without it!
Edited to add - you beat me to it Tinypony, with once again, a really good informative post.
Kaye46
New User
I think it is great that Parelli will have a base in the UK
There are a lot of views on this subject already expressed and it is a pity that some people who clearly have no knowledge of Parelli are making such negative comments. I have taken the time to find out more and it works for me.
Prior to this, I was following the traditional route with lessons (at £30 for 30 minutes) from a BHSA instructor. I, as a rider, didn't make much progress but I did find I was spending an awful lot of money on new tack; I was told that I needed to strap my horse's mouth shut with a flash noseband, then I needed a martingale to keep his head down, then I needed spurs to get more impulsion....then I decided that I needed better instruction because I felt that I shouldn't need all these gadgets. Don't get me wrong, my instructor was a lovely lady, but she simply couldn't convey to me how to ride in a way I could understand. And I felt that my horse was suffering because I couldn't communicate with him. I know that Parelli enthusiasts can sound a little evangelical and believe me, I was VERY sceptical about Parelli before I took the time to find out more. And yes, they don't pass their information on for free, but neither do any other instructors I've come across. The reason that Parelli students are so enthusiastic is because the methods work. The comments about the equipment being expensive are also misplaced. The quality of the equipment is outstanding. I've used my 12ft lead rope for 4 years, day in day out, and it is still in virtually perfect condition, same with my halter. When it comes to horse equipment, you get what you pay for.
Let's not turn this discussion turn into a slanging match. Keep an open mind........I took the view that I was never too old to learn something new and I feel that I and my horse have benefitted greatly from being a student of Parelli. Sometimes it's hard not to feel threatened by different ways of achieving things. I wasn't achieving the things I wanted to, and I looked for an alternative and I'm glad I did.
There are a lot of views on this subject already expressed and it is a pity that some people who clearly have no knowledge of Parelli are making such negative comments. I have taken the time to find out more and it works for me.
Prior to this, I was following the traditional route with lessons (at £30 for 30 minutes) from a BHSA instructor. I, as a rider, didn't make much progress but I did find I was spending an awful lot of money on new tack; I was told that I needed to strap my horse's mouth shut with a flash noseband, then I needed a martingale to keep his head down, then I needed spurs to get more impulsion....then I decided that I needed better instruction because I felt that I shouldn't need all these gadgets. Don't get me wrong, my instructor was a lovely lady, but she simply couldn't convey to me how to ride in a way I could understand. And I felt that my horse was suffering because I couldn't communicate with him. I know that Parelli enthusiasts can sound a little evangelical and believe me, I was VERY sceptical about Parelli before I took the time to find out more. And yes, they don't pass their information on for free, but neither do any other instructors I've come across. The reason that Parelli students are so enthusiastic is because the methods work. The comments about the equipment being expensive are also misplaced. The quality of the equipment is outstanding. I've used my 12ft lead rope for 4 years, day in day out, and it is still in virtually perfect condition, same with my halter. When it comes to horse equipment, you get what you pay for.
Let's not turn this discussion turn into a slanging match. Keep an open mind........I took the view that I was never too old to learn something new and I feel that I and my horse have benefitted greatly from being a student of Parelli. Sometimes it's hard not to feel threatened by different ways of achieving things. I wasn't achieving the things I wanted to, and I looked for an alternative and I'm glad I did.
ruthc
New User
Ok, I'm going to do my best to try to explain what Linda and Pat's method of teaching have done for me, in particular Linda's method of teaching how to ride with "fluidity". I was not a good rider - I had very little natural feel so was always too slow to reward my horse when it tried to do the right thing for me. My balance wasn't great so I relied on the reins to keep me upright. I was stiff, hollow-backed and wedged my feet into the stirrups because I didn't trust myself to relax. By following the Parelli method I gradually became aware of what my body was doing, I learned that by sitting further back on my seat pockets I felt more secure and could keep out of my horse's way, I learned that by exaggerating movements in my body I could put myself in the right position and set my horse up for success. By riding bareback I learned to stay in harmony with my horse's movement. I know that all these things look odd to people who don't know the programme, but all we are doing is "exaggerating to teach and refining as we go along". I'm not saying that this is the only way to teach this, but it is the only way that has made sense to me and my horse. I can now bend my horse by just bending my own ribs and stop by just breathing out and relaxing. That may not be a great achievement for many people but for me and my horse it is huge. We are just trying to be the best humans we can be for our horses - there's nothing wrong with that.
Doublethyme
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware the it was a slanging match, most of us are just expressing our views as HHO requested! Just because we don't agree with you, doesn't make us wrong and vice versa, but once again in your post you have worded it in such a way as to make Parelli the only thing that could possibly work and other methods wrong.
You could well have just changed your obviously insufficient instructor for another one who followed non NH methods and got similar results than you had from Parelli.
I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people and horses, but what really gets my back up is the opinion of Parelli followers that they are higher beings and better than everyone else. This is only my personal experience, but that is what was asked for on this thread.
You could well have just changed your obviously insufficient instructor for another one who followed non NH methods and got similar results than you had from Parelli.
I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people and horses, but what really gets my back up is the opinion of Parelli followers that they are higher beings and better than everyone else. This is only my personal experience, but that is what was asked for on this thread.
Judie
Well-Known Member
QR
I went to one of his two day seminars at Solihull and found him very entertaining and funny.
However, I don't think there is anything wrong in 'his' training techniques as I don't think there is anything wrong in classical training etc etc, each to their own and if some people enjoy playing games with their horses that they don't ride for whatever reason, then fine, let them be. It isn't personally for me but then I am confident in my own ability to do what I deem necessary for each individual horse I train, but others do need a plan to follow.
I went to one of his two day seminars at Solihull and found him very entertaining and funny.
However, I don't think there is anything wrong in 'his' training techniques as I don't think there is anything wrong in classical training etc etc, each to their own and if some people enjoy playing games with their horses that they don't ride for whatever reason, then fine, let them be. It isn't personally for me but then I am confident in my own ability to do what I deem necessary for each individual horse I train, but others do need a plan to follow.
Faithkat
Well-Known Member
Exactly! Like HOW MUCH???? Methinks they are extracting the p**s
http://www.equine-behaviour.com/store/storefront.htm?gclid=CMirlcjRlYwCFQrlQgod-F56hA
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http://www.equine-behaviour.com/store/storefront.htm?gclid=CMirlcjRlYwCFQrlQgod-F56hA
Getting Started Home Study Kit
Level 1 - Home Study Kit
It's all here! Everything you need to get started on your Parelli Natural Horsemanship Journey!
Our getting started kit includes the Level 1 Home Study Program; All your Basic kit items including, Savvy String, Carrot Stick, 12' Professional Line & choice of Natural Halter PLUS a great Parelli bag to keep all your kit together!
For more information on Natural Halter sizing please refer to the main product listing under 'Equipment'
To find out more about the Parelli Level 1 program click the button below
Ready to start your horsemanship journey?
£260.00
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I gotta apologise here - I felt maybe I wasted my time on levels 1 + 2 - I left before completing 3!
SavvyHorse
Member
Sorry Tierra and Doublethyme, didn't mean to upset you. I totally agree with you about the spanish school and I too don't like the wording of 'on the bit' but know that most people know what that means.
I too ride from behind, getting the horses' hindquarters in a good position and allowing the horses back to come up and thereby self carriage. I'm sorry my vocabulary isn't good.
I'm not making out that PNH is the only way just that it can and is a good way for a lot of people. Incidently Pat and Linda have been to the Spanish school (specially invited) and they were praised there by their methods and riding skills.
It's great there are so many people doing great things with their horses. Lots of you are here which is fab, but there are lots of others who aren't so self-confident and who have not such good teachers. Any method that helps people and keeps the dignity of the horse is good in my opinion. The basic safety and learning of Parelli has set a lot of people up to go onto other good trainers later on and to know they've got a good trainer. Some aren't so lucky.
I too ride from behind, getting the horses' hindquarters in a good position and allowing the horses back to come up and thereby self carriage. I'm sorry my vocabulary isn't good.
I'm not making out that PNH is the only way just that it can and is a good way for a lot of people. Incidently Pat and Linda have been to the Spanish school (specially invited) and they were praised there by their methods and riding skills.
It's great there are so many people doing great things with their horses. Lots of you are here which is fab, but there are lots of others who aren't so self-confident and who have not such good teachers. Any method that helps people and keeps the dignity of the horse is good in my opinion. The basic safety and learning of Parelli has set a lot of people up to go onto other good trainers later on and to know they've got a good trainer. Some aren't so lucky.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Aaaah yes, i remember now... "sitting on your pockets"
Sit back in the way she does and shovelling doesnt promote roundness from the horse. Indeed, demos of her riding show this. Sure she shuffles out some poor lateral movements on a horse with a bent neck but theres no correct roundness over the back. Why? Because she isn't allowing that roundness. By grinding with your seat - chair seat, sitting on your pockets, seat polishing... whatever you want to call it - you force the horse to hollow away from you, not to round up under you.
Her sitting trot is absorbed bilaterally which creates a lot of wobbling in the pelvis and more seat shovelling - again this directly affects her horses ability to round over the back.
Hollow backed - im not quite sure how hollow backed you were riding but please be aware, the human back isn't straight. I get completly enraged by teaching methods that scream "keep your back straight" at its students. How? Its impossible. The only way to keep the back straight is to sit back "onto your pockets" as the term maybe in the parelli teaching. The human spined has a curve at the bottom.... thats biology.
In her lateral work she uses her weight and seat to try and push her horses sideways... and yes, they do go sideways. The reason for this is quite simple - the horse will always try and balance the rider as best it can. If you push with your seat or lean with your seat, your horse will step sideways as he tries to "catch" you. The result is a very shuffly lateral movement which is exactly what is shown in her demos. Her halfpass, which appears to be her favourite demo movement, is fundamentally incorrect, more often than not the bend isnt right, the quarters are leading and again, there is ZERO connection over the horses back... it flops along sideways because its being pushed over by the riders weight
Her hands follow the movement of the horses neck... i assume this is used to create some sense of "giving" or kindness. For a horse to work up and into a outline, there needs to be a contact at lower levels. Throwing the rein at the horse while "following" its movement doesnt do this. At higher levels, you can afford to give such slack in the rein and self carriage should take over. But there is no point in generating the energy unless you control it! With no rein contact you let the engery go straight out of the front door and again, give zero chance of connection over the horses back.
To refine the aids and be completly intune with the horse, the rider needs tone and poise... riding in "fluidity" is ignoring this and seems to argue that its the only way to stay relaxed enough to "allow" movement.
In conclusion, let me put another way of thinking to you.
Parelli advocates argue that their methods are conpletly horse central.. the well being of the animal is always the most important thing.
For a horse to be ridden in the way to preserve itself - anatomically speaking - it needs to be rounded over the back. A hollow back is a weak back and a rider on top of this will cause undue wear and tear. In none of the footage ive seen nor in a demo i had the misfortune of attending have i ever seen Linda ride a horse correctly so its rounded and connected over its back. As riders its our responsibility to enjoy the sport we love without detriment to our beloved horses... yet a core underlying issue is being ignored in regards to the horses physical welfare by the methods preeched by linda parelli.
Sit back in the way she does and shovelling doesnt promote roundness from the horse. Indeed, demos of her riding show this. Sure she shuffles out some poor lateral movements on a horse with a bent neck but theres no correct roundness over the back. Why? Because she isn't allowing that roundness. By grinding with your seat - chair seat, sitting on your pockets, seat polishing... whatever you want to call it - you force the horse to hollow away from you, not to round up under you.
Her sitting trot is absorbed bilaterally which creates a lot of wobbling in the pelvis and more seat shovelling - again this directly affects her horses ability to round over the back.
Hollow backed - im not quite sure how hollow backed you were riding but please be aware, the human back isn't straight. I get completly enraged by teaching methods that scream "keep your back straight" at its students. How? Its impossible. The only way to keep the back straight is to sit back "onto your pockets" as the term maybe in the parelli teaching. The human spined has a curve at the bottom.... thats biology.
In her lateral work she uses her weight and seat to try and push her horses sideways... and yes, they do go sideways. The reason for this is quite simple - the horse will always try and balance the rider as best it can. If you push with your seat or lean with your seat, your horse will step sideways as he tries to "catch" you. The result is a very shuffly lateral movement which is exactly what is shown in her demos. Her halfpass, which appears to be her favourite demo movement, is fundamentally incorrect, more often than not the bend isnt right, the quarters are leading and again, there is ZERO connection over the horses back... it flops along sideways because its being pushed over by the riders weight
Her hands follow the movement of the horses neck... i assume this is used to create some sense of "giving" or kindness. For a horse to work up and into a outline, there needs to be a contact at lower levels. Throwing the rein at the horse while "following" its movement doesnt do this. At higher levels, you can afford to give such slack in the rein and self carriage should take over. But there is no point in generating the energy unless you control it! With no rein contact you let the engery go straight out of the front door and again, give zero chance of connection over the horses back.
To refine the aids and be completly intune with the horse, the rider needs tone and poise... riding in "fluidity" is ignoring this and seems to argue that its the only way to stay relaxed enough to "allow" movement.
In conclusion, let me put another way of thinking to you.
Parelli advocates argue that their methods are conpletly horse central.. the well being of the animal is always the most important thing.
For a horse to be ridden in the way to preserve itself - anatomically speaking - it needs to be rounded over the back. A hollow back is a weak back and a rider on top of this will cause undue wear and tear. In none of the footage ive seen nor in a demo i had the misfortune of attending have i ever seen Linda ride a horse correctly so its rounded and connected over its back. As riders its our responsibility to enjoy the sport we love without detriment to our beloved horses... yet a core underlying issue is being ignored in regards to the horses physical welfare by the methods preeched by linda parelli.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
If you ride like Linda you are NOT allowing the horses back to come up. You're pressing against the back in a shovelling position that causes the horse to hollow away from you.
No where have i seen her ride where her horse has been connected over its back. It may be going forwards, it may be tracking up, it may have a neck bend but they are never ever connected or rounded correctly under the saddle.
No where have i seen her ride where her horse has been connected over its back. It may be going forwards, it may be tracking up, it may have a neck bend but they are never ever connected or rounded correctly under the saddle.
Kaye46
New User
I didn't say that other methods weren't right and neither did I say that Parelli was the only thing that could possibly work. I just stated that I tried a traditional instructor (in fact I tried 2) and it didn't work for me. Then I tried Parelli and it did work, so, obviously, I'm going to be enthusiastic about the method. If the traditional approach had worked, I would have stuck with it.
And why do you think that Parelli followers think they are 'higher beings'? They are different, granted, but that doesn't make them better (or worse) than anyone else.
And why do you think that Parelli followers think they are 'higher beings'? They are different, granted, but that doesn't make them better (or worse) than anyone else.
RCAWilson
Member
I never mentioned BHS, Classical yes.
Tinypony, the reason peoples horses backs hurt are because of badly fitting saddles, wrong position and/or tension. Done properly, it's great!
And by the way, I am not saying everyone who does'nt do parelli is crap, because that's not true, however, most people just don't understand horses and how they tick, most people just get their horses, groom, tack up, ride, un tack, finished. That's not much fun for a horse is it?
But Pat and Linda have enabled me to do so much more, and the way my horse looks at me is great now, he pricks his ears and whickers at me, I can read horses now, and me and my horse are so much happier, all thanks to them, so thank you Pat and Linda! Now I am more like a horse for my horse, rather then a boring predator.
Call that evengelical, what ever, I really don't care.
GO PARELLI!
Tinypony, the reason peoples horses backs hurt are because of badly fitting saddles, wrong position and/or tension. Done properly, it's great!
And by the way, I am not saying everyone who does'nt do parelli is crap, because that's not true, however, most people just don't understand horses and how they tick, most people just get their horses, groom, tack up, ride, un tack, finished. That's not much fun for a horse is it?
But Pat and Linda have enabled me to do so much more, and the way my horse looks at me is great now, he pricks his ears and whickers at me, I can read horses now, and me and my horse are so much happier, all thanks to them, so thank you Pat and Linda! Now I am more like a horse for my horse, rather then a boring predator.
Call that evengelical, what ever, I really don't care.
GO PARELLI!
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Thats not true... are you aware of the demonstration that leading equine osteopath Gavin Schofield and classical rider Heather Moffett did for Cambridge university a few years back?
It was regarding the rider's position and the effect it has on the horse's back.
They demo'd a number of common riding faults from being chair seated (sat on your pockets) to being sat too much on your "fork" and the weight distribution of these positions was measured.
Using a chair seat, shovelling with the seat and landing heavily on the saddle (which goes hand in hand with rounding your back and sitting back too much) caused enormous amounts of pressure on the part of the back where the back of the saddle sits - precisely the area suseptible to bruising and damage from a poorly sat rider.
It was regarding the rider's position and the effect it has on the horse's back.
They demo'd a number of common riding faults from being chair seated (sat on your pockets) to being sat too much on your "fork" and the weight distribution of these positions was measured.
Using a chair seat, shovelling with the seat and landing heavily on the saddle (which goes hand in hand with rounding your back and sitting back too much) caused enormous amounts of pressure on the part of the back where the back of the saddle sits - precisely the area suseptible to bruising and damage from a poorly sat rider.