What do you think about Parelli?

[Tinypony]

Tierra has explained it for me.

One thing I understand has improved a bit in Parelli is that there is less use of repetetive patterns, is that right? I've known a few horses that have broken down after a long session of Clover Leaf or cantering around the outside of a round corral to fix some problem or other.

 

[Daphnelia]

I saw a parelli demo a year or so ago, didnt pay for it though. Thought it was interesting and asked about how you'd become a teacher, cost etc

you ready for this?

24 GRAND to qualify.
Thats twice as much as my degree! Put me right off them. IMO anybody who is the least bit interested in actually promoting horse welfare wouldnt price so many people out the market. If they really care, they should be making it accessible to as many people as they can. And how can they justify charging so much for the kits too? Its unreal....
Shame cause Id like to have a go at it. But theres no way I will have that kind of money spare for a while...

 

[RCAWilson]

Yes I am aware.
And yes it is true.
A badly fitting saddle, a bad position and/or tension, are bad.
People are confusing the chair seat with the fluidity concept.
A tradition chair seat in a tradition english saddle is not good.
There is tension in the body and weight (pushing) in the stirrups.
Western horses don't have all theses problems do they?
This is because the saddle is designed to spread the weight over a much larger area, coupled with a relaxed, flowing rider on top.
You don't ride western in a dressage saddle and you don't ride dressage in a western saddle.
Linda's fluidity methods are supposed to be used with a saddle and pad system which merges the best of english saddles and the best of western saddles (a very wide gullet and large weight distribution). The results are free shoulders, and amazing pad which eliminates any pressure points, spreads the weight over a larger area, like a western saddle. There is no, I quote, 'enormous amounts of pressure on the part of the back where the back of the saddle sits-precisely the area suseptible to bruising and damage', it is so much more comfortable for the horse, and it looks like an englsh saddle so does'nt look wierd.
So please, stop refering to the chair seat, as this is not what it is!! Think more a combination of western and english saddleing and riding techniques.
Glad I cleared that up!

This my last post of the day, so please, if you have any questions, just PM me. Thanks!

 

[mystiandsunny]

I have heard a lot of bad about Parelli, and some good.

Without it (unless she's on box rest), I can ride and jump my horse in an arena without bridle or saddle. She follows me around if I take off her headcollar wherever we are, 'cause she wants to stay with me. She is still herself, states her opinions about things with her body language and manages to communicate quite well without me having to read any books/watch DVDs. She understands how to play tag (with oh and his pony) and loves it. She actively enjoys being ridden, and sulks if I don't for a while.

My OH has only 4 years' experience of horses. His pony visibly brightens on seeing him and when called will charge across the field, neighing her hello. If she is scared, she jumps behind him, if nervous, she rests her muzzle on his arm for reassurance. She looks after him when he rides, as he is a novice, and will not go beyond a certain pace if she thinks he's not steady enough. If he falls, she stops and sniffs him, all concerned, until he gets up. If another horse approaches while he's down, she will chase them off, trying to protect him. Oh, and this is a pony who does not just let anyone handle her, and for anyone other than him, is anything but a novice ride.

Love is free, and combined with kindness, works wonders!

 

[Kate_13]

Over priced commensense indeed!

Interesting that the people praising parelli don't normally come to this forum.

As for that Saavy girl or whoever you are, I think you'll find that western riders have a similar seat to dressage riders!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have ridden western, dressage, jumping and many other things and the seat and aids are the same!

We all know that the horse must be ridden from behind and with or without parelli we can all achieve it, whether in headcollar, bridle, saddle or bareback, beacuse we all adopt the same riding position!

We all have fun with our horses, just because we decide it is our enjoyment to hack, do dressage, jumping or western doesn't mean we are having any less fun than you lot waving an orange stick at a horse!

I am not anti natural horsemanship and have a lot of respect for Kelly marks and Monty Roberts and have used some of their techniques.

How dare you say that just because we don't wave orange sticks and push gym balls around the school that our horses don't love us or follow us around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stick to what you know best and we will stick to ours.

*goes off to stamp feet*

 

[ruthc]

Thanks for that explanation - you obviously have a lot of experience in this area. Like I say, I am only a student who is still learning, but I have had the priviledge of studying with Linda and Pat out in Colorado and I think that Linda's methods of teaching fluidity have been developed and refined a lot since she made the first DVD. When she was explaining it to us it was very clear that the end goal was a horse with a rounded back that could carry itself and the rider comfortably, but before that it had to be relaxed in its mind and body and confident with the contact through the bit. That is certainly how both Linda's and Pat's horses looked to me. Please excuse me if I am not using all the correct language to describe this, but I think we are all trying to achieve the same thing.

 

[SavvyHorse]

I actually come on here often to read but dont' post...I can see now why I don't.

I think that everyone should have fun with their horses, I never said people here didn't, I just said I did too.

Each to their own. Have fun with your horses especially now that the Summer is coming.

I am glad Parelli has got an office now in the UK again and I hope the people that find it interesting have fun enjoying it. I think that's what the topic was about!

 

[Mid]

When a horse moves away from the mounting block, it's because he doesn't want to go riding.

I agree, they do play, but not like our games. They have to have a winner, it's how they establish pecking order, and if a horse 'wins' a Parelli game, it sends him very mixed messages.

 

[Mid]

I've found that the further back you sit (this is coming from riding a stumpy little highland pony, who doesn't really care what you do) the less responsive the horse is, and that he almost tries to run away with you, rather then with you. It just upsetted his balance.

 

[Weezy]

What do I think of Parelli? I think it is bloody dangerous. Open minded (naive?) people spend £260 on a starter pack that oozes and schmoozes and makes them believe they are going to venture down a path of enlightenment and be wonderful - Oh, another word for that is brainwashing

The danger is that people who buy these kits are not actively encouraged to work with someone who actually knows what they are doing - it is like giving the handbook for a 747 to someone and telling them they can fly it - dangerous.

Clever marketing and a cult-like following will always ensure there are people that will follow their idol and shout about his greatness - this does not make it right.

I use NH techniques EVERY day I am with horses, but I picked it all up as a youngster who was lucky enough to be around people who had an empathy with horses. I am actually horrified that people are cashing in - truth is, if they REALLY HONESTLY cared about horses they would offer this knowledge for free, or for a small donation.

I do not think Stoneleigh is the place for a Parelli base, leaves a rather sour taste in my mouth.

 

[henryhorn]

I am not at all happy that it is based at Stoneleigh because it gives it a sort of "Official" recommendation, almost as if it's on a level with BE, BD or the BSJA.
I feel this is a pure money making system and is a tool for wrecking horses unless used under supervision of accredited parelli trainers.
A lot of thought has gone into the creation of it and I have no real beef with its' founders, but they underestimate the ignorance of the public; in the wrong hands like any other system, it's open to abuse.
I do feel it should not be allowed to be based alongside the other organisations..

 

[spaniel]

QR...


"So, I guess, you get these results from your common sense,
your horse runs to you from the field when he sees you at the gate, he is as light and responsive as you could possibly want- on the ground and on his back, your horse is always tuned into you? Your horse is free, no rope attached and he follows you around running, walking, turning and stopping, mirroring you, he asks you questions? He has total confidence and trust in you, your horse sees you as a fun human, yes? You play with your horse. He is completely respectful of your space, as you are of his.
You can ride your horse bridleless and bareback, cantering, jumping, in harmony, happy, in control? Of course! "

Well actually ....YES all of my horses for the last 38 years.

Sorry....achieved by common sense and not by spending a fortune on hyped methods.

 

[Kate_13]

Wheezy, you are so right, a cult it is. Forgot to mention that in my post was too busy ranting!

 

[Mid]

"Wheezy, you are so right, a cult it is. Forgot to mention that in my post was too busy ranting!"

It even has levels that you have to pay a certain amount to finish

 

[Tierra]

Oh and incase it wasnt clear, i agree with both Weezy and henryhorn about their place at Stoneleigh - im so angry with this but equally, find it hilariously funny that they believe they have a place there. They really think rather a lot of theirselves... unfortunatly for them its not shared by all

 

[Kate_13]

[ QUOTE ]
... unfortunatly for them its not shared by all

[/ QUOTE ]

Not by quite a lot by the sounds of it!

 

[Skhosu]

Could anyone post a picture of a horse enjoying parelli? they all seem to look bored to me..
is it parelli whic advocates the wip wop?

 

[mickey]

Have not read all the posts on here BUT:

I bought a Parelli pack a few yrs back having seen a demo at the NEC.

I use Parelli methods and also some of the Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts methods with my horse. I would not say I religiously apply these methods. I do some of the Parelli games with my horse perhaps once every few weeks.

The groundwork has helped to improve my relationship with my horse. It has led to increased respect for 'my space' and stopped him overtaking me when being led or barging forwards. I do believe that the Parelli principle of horse moving away from pressure is sound and can be carried through to ridden work.

I also find that the Parelli groundwork adds variety to my horse's exercise regime.

The only concern I have is that I do believe it is important to have help on the ground if you are inexperienced. Subtle changes in body language can be influential on the horse when engaging in Parelli work and if you are not experienced you could end up in trouble.

Overall though I have enjoyed using the work/principles and feel my horse and I have benefited.

 

[the watcher]

[ QUOTE ]

is it parelli whic advocates the wip wop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think so..I like the wip wop thing, but I learned to ride western..with long reins and no stick or whip - those long reins come in very handy

 

[RuthR]

Firstly, I'm really happy to see Parelli coming back to the UK in such a big way. From my point of view it is only a good thing.

Secondly, I want to share a little bit of my experience with Parelli - I'm not saying it is right or wrong it is simply my experience.

I went through Pony Club with my pony who was, and still is, a very good pony. We had a wonerful relationship and I thought I was a pretty good rider. Then I got my horse and that was a completely different kettle of fish! For the first 6 months of having him I was bucked off every single time I rode him - and I was trying to dressage, the picture of harmony between horse and human. I don't think we had much harmony! I was having lessons in dressage and in one lesson (45 mins) I was bucked off 5 times - thats once every 9 minutes! Doesn't do much for your confidence.

Thats when I saw a Parelli demonstration and decided to give it a go - the worst that could happen was that it wouldn't improve the situation. I saw results from the first session and I haven't looked back since. My horse has become a true partner and we have a wonderful relationship. I have got back my confidence and my horse has built up his confidence in me as a leader too. Some people have said its over priced but I actually think its quite cheap! Initially it might seem that it is expensive but in the long run I have saved so much money. It's also helped me find the fun in horses again.

Some people have said its about showing off and bareback riding - its not although you can make it about that. What Parelli is really about is the principles. Pat talks about the six keys of success - Attitude, Knowledge, Tools, Techniques, Time and Imagination. The tools are only one part of it...an important part but only one part. The tools are nothing if you don't have the rest in place too - that's why a carrot stick is not a schooling whip - the attitude behind the use of both is often (not always, but often) very different. Parelli most importatly, when done correctly, will preserve the horses dignity. Like anything in the horse industry though it is only as good the person doing it. Also, since doing Parelli I have probably been the safest I have ever been with my horses in all my years of being with horses - in fact level 1 is all about being safe with your horse.

That's pretty much all I want to say although I could go on. I respect everyone's opinions so I hope that you would all respect mine. I haven't written this to try to change people's minds about Parelli - its is simply a testimant of my own experince.

 

[Rachel_M]

Common sense, basic horsemanship as said, just re branded.

 

[Weezy]

May I ask how you went about re-training your horse and how your ridden work is going now?

 

[TheBlackMoth]

What's really interesting here - and this is from a non rider - is how many new members have joined up to defend parelli and how few long standing members are raving about it.

To be honest - it seems quite cultish - all these new people raving about it in an almost evangelical way. Not trying to be offensive - always good to have new people join - as long as they join in - rather than turn up to preach.

 

[Weezy]

You are right Nuala, and I think that is why it gets people's backs up - it is not dissimilar to a cult and there is a definite evangelical preaching surrounding it!

 

[Tinypony]

Yep, and I've been where they are, so I know how they feel. But you can get over it with isolation techniques and good debriefing people.

I'm not defending Parelli, this is a general comment. Who of us can afford to work for nothing? I know it's a nice idea to have people sharing their knowledge and skill for free from some sort of philanthropic impulses, but if they don't charge how will they live?
I do know of one NH trainer who says she is now giving her knowledge for free - Ingela Sainsbury who has the Kingdom Horse website. I'm told she's rather wealthy and I guess she'd have to be. I haven't seen her teach for years, so don't know what she's like these days.

 

[NaturalTwo]

The reason so many new people are here is that it's kind of a first to have a Parelli story covered in H&H (which is why this thread first started I think). As you can see from many of the anti-Parelli posts, dare I say that this isn't the nicest playground to play in. But there are so many people who are passionate about the improved relationships they've got with their horses and what that's meant for their riding (and I count myself in that) that it seems a shame not to share.

Unfortunately it can come across as cultish, I can see that, but it's really just a group of really enthusiastic people! Simple as that. It's the same as someone being potty about, I don't know, a new saddle they've bought and telling all their mates about the change in their horse's pace and freedom of shoulder movement. You know? When you find something good you just want to share it. And one of the aspects of Parelli is that it can be kind of infectious. In a good way of course! Many people don't evangelize (and quite right, that can be a pain in the rear end!) because for one thing they get a lot of uninformed negative feedback. A lot of people who use Parelli get a lot of negative feedback even when they don't evangelize and just go about their daily business. I don't know what it is that makes people do that - fear of something new? Fear that it might challenge something they've accepted for years? That's natural. But I know of a number of people who would post here but won't for that very reason. They're just happy to get on doing what they're doing and enjoying it. Leading by example is always the better way, in anything. You can lead a horse to water, and all that.

 

[Weezy]

Well OK, point taken, but how much does this pack cost to put together - I will bet it is around a tenner

 

[Tinypony]

I don't know how much it costs to put together, but I do know that retailers tend to have a rather large mark-up on their products whatever they are selling. That's life. Also, import duty pushes prices up on anything imported from the States.
But that sounds like I'm defending Parelli, and I'm not. I am an NH student, that is in that I have learnt a lot about it, but I've been around horses all my life. I have chosen to study with other trainers who I prefer (and who do have the odd DVD to refer to, but much more home-made and cheaper).

 

[TheBlackMoth]

"As you can see from many of the anti-Parelli posts, dare I say that this isn't the nicest playground to play in."

Well as most of us play happily in this playground everyday I think we probably do think it's nice. You are hardly likely to win friends and influence people if you start by being rude about them!

To be honest most of us can make up our own minds about things. I have no problem with people making a profit - after all we live in a capitalist world - but when it's dressed up as 'doing good' - ie caring for animals - I get suspicious.

There is room for all attitudes in the world - however, what distinguishes a cult is the belief that this is the only way.

You and your friends are not doing yourself any favours in your approach - my reading of this is that something like this has happened. One of you occasionally come on the HHO forum - and has seen the question and rushed back to a Parelli forum and said quick - they are discussing Parelli at HHO - I need back up!!!!

I am a great believer in live and let live - what works for some will be a disaster for others!

 

[NaturalTwo]

[ QUOTE ]

is it parelli whic advocates the wip wop?

[/ QUOTE ]

The wip wop is Monty Roberts/Intelligent Horsemanship.

But I ride either in a hackamore or a bridle that has the extra rein which is tied to my saddle. Most of the time (usually all the time) it just sits there, but it can be used to get impulsion - start off with life up, if horse doesn't up gait then a leg squeeze, then still if not moving use the end of the spare rein to 'slap' my shoulders to create some rhythmic motion. The idea being to teach the horse to learn what to do so that annoying rhythmic motion doesn't happen, as in 'oh, to stop her doing that, all I have to do is move up a gait/move forward when my rider's life is up!'

The second use is as an instant handy lead rope if you need to get off or tie up at the pub...