What do you think about Parelli?

[Skhosu]

I think the idea of the wip wop is a misguided notion. I read instructions for it, which is basically, begin doing this and then keep doing it harder, a rope to me is going to cause pain when used as such! And is making the horse do something through fear...not very NH.
but that's just a little rant off my chest.
As I say, I have not ever seen a horse enjoying parelli.

 

[NaturalTwo]

[ QUOTE ]
"As you can see from many of the anti-Parelli posts, dare I say that this isn't the nicest playground to play in."

Well as most of us play happily in this playground everyday I think we probably do think it's nice. You are hardly likely to win friends and influence people if you start by being rude about them!

To be honest most of us can make up our own minds about things. I have no problem with people making a profit - after all we live in a capitalist world - but when it's dressed up as 'doing good' - ie caring for animals - I get suspicious.

There is room for all attitudes in the world - however, what distinguishes a cult is the belief that this is the only way.

You and your friends are not doing yourself any favours in your approach - my reading of this is that something like this has happened. One of you occasionally come on the HHO forum - and has seen the question and rushed back to a Parelli forum and said quick - they are discussing Parelli at HHO - I need back up!!!!

I am a great believer in live and let live - what works for some will be a disaster for others!

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean to be rude, please forgive me. My online posting talents probably aren't as savvy as they could be, ho ho.

As for people making their own minds up, I agree with you 100%.

It's just an interesting debate and it's good to hear what other people think. I haven't really looked at this forum before but I do subscribe to H&H. I've had a look at a lot of the other threads and there's lots of interesting discussions going on which I hope now to take part in. For me this doesn't have to be black and white, but it IS interesting how this is such a controversial topic! All good fun.

 

[Tinypony]

You know how we all have an anecdote about Parelli students who mess up their horses? Or who are afraid to ride? And they are picking up ideas from DVD's and books and it's dangerous because they don't get proper instruction?
Well - don't we see that sort of thing all the time around horses? People wandering around a tack shop picking up the latest gadget and sticking it on their horse without proper instruction. Then most livery yards have the person that faffs about with their horse and puts off riding it. And of course the resident expert who has got it all out of books, or by watching some videos and now thinks they can make it work with their horse.
I think what I'm trying to say is, it's not just with Parelli that all these dangerous and worrying things happen, it happens all the time. The Parelli students are just a bit more visible because they wear orange sticks and have savvy strings looped through their belts. As long as there are books to read, DVD's to watch and things to spend money on, people will get into tangles with horses. And if they didn't have all that then they'd manage it anyway.

 

[RuthR]

Weezy you can most certainly ask how my riden work is going and my answer would be very well thank-you. Once I got my ground work to a certain place the ridden work started to fall into place. My horse now will put effort into gettin near the fence for me to mount where as before he would move away as soon as he realised I wanted to get on. To me that is a sign he is ready and willing to accept me on his back.

We have made huge progressions in his ridden work in walk, trot and canter and I haven't been bucked off once since doing parelli. I can ask him to go into a gait and he will stay in that gait until told otherwise - I no longer need to nudge with every stride. He offers to extend and collect at the slightest suggestion; to go up or down a gait at a change in my life - I can yawn and he will stop from any gait. He follows my focus and turns when I turn in my body - all of this is done with little or no contact with the reins. There is no force and no fight. It means that when I do pick up the rein it is only for 'dancing' - for refined communication. I don't depend on the reins for control - they are there for communication. Don't get me wrong, its been a long time to get here but that was mainly due to my confidence being so badly damaged by previous experiences. We still have a ways to go aswell to where I want to be but I know we will get there.

Nuala, the reason why you're finding so many 'new members' posting about their positive experiences of Parelli is because we often don't spend time in these types of forums. There are many forums out there on the internet that are set up for 'natural' discussions. Maybe that does make it appear like a 'cult' and that is probably a downfall on our part. I am not perfect and I know it and I would think that most people who do Parelli would say the same but when 'natural' discussions come up in places like this you can feel very much like you are being chastised almost for believing what you believe. I say, live and let live - I share my views and you share your views and at worse we agree to disagree. But maybe if more people were slightly openminded we could learn from each other and who knows that might be of benifit to the horse.

The Parelli's have formed friendships with people like Walter Zettl, Luis Luisco, Craig Johnston and Luca Moneta who are wonderful riders and are well respected in their own fields. In thier friendships the Parelli's share their beliefs about horse psychology and in return they learn more about developing horses to a higher level in a natrual way that is fun for the horse. I have high goals in the area of dressage but I want it to be fun for my horse - if my horse is recreation for me, can I be recreation for my horse? The answer is starting to be yes more often.

I'm not saying that all traditional methods are bad - far from it. Both Traditional and Natural methods can be good and bad - as I said before it depend on who is doing it and the attitude behind the tools and techniques. I'm in it for my horse and my horse has shown me that he likes me a lot more since I started Parelli. Believe me, horses do speak to us...its up to us to listen.

 

[Skhosu]

'Schooling whip: £4.99
Carrot Stick: £24.99
Bamboo Stick: 50p
'
sorry...that made my howl with laughter.................anyway

 

[Tinypony]

I thought a wip wop was just a bit of soft thick rope, knotted at each end and then frayed to make tassels. Wouldn't you have to go it some to hurt a horse with that?
Ah, not quite - here's a wip wop.
http://www.horseandharmony.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=283

 

[Weezy]

Thanks Ruth, I wish you continuing success with your horse. It is really reassuring to hear that someone can see things from both sides of the fence. Whilst, of course, it is very tough for someone like myself to understand that groundwork instantly cured your horse's bucking problem (as in instantly when you got back on after doing the groundwork, not *in an instant*) if it has worked that dramatically then there must be something in it - I think they may well be your attitude to look and listen and realise Parelli is not the be all and end all!

 

[RuthR]

Hello again Weezy,

I must say that most of the bucking problem was caused by my horse not enjoying being ridden! He was just expressing his opinion to having me on my back. I think that if you gain trust and a relationship as well as respect on the ground first then it is a logical step to think that that would impact on the riden work.

Its not to say that he never bucks now - because sometimes he will but again its feedback (its also now more of a bunnyhop - not like the broncing he used to do!) - maybe I've been to quick or to strong or I'm blocking him some way. If he does anything I don't expect instead of instantly blaming him I take a moment to think 'Hmm...why did he do that? Was it because of something I did?' 99% of the time it is because of something I have done and as soon as I correct myself the behaviour will stop.

It would take a lot to convince me that Parelli is not worthwhile because without it I doubt I would still have a horse but equally I can see that there is some good in properly applied traditional techniques. I admire people who can do all this by themselves - I couldn't and need to be shown how to do it and Parelli helped me with that more than the years of Pony Club teaching ever did.

One of the things I have developed through Parelli is patience - not only with horses but with people too. I hope that comes across in my posts - I consider my words very carefully so that I don't cause offence to anyone whilst still trying to get my view across. I'm open to a discussion but not if both sides can't step back and see the other side of the arguement. Again, something I have learnt through Parelli - the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes (or hooves ;-) ).

 

[Lawrence]

It has bits in the programme that are designed for horses and bits that are for humans. Sometimes, and I have seen horses break down as a result, the human bits are overdone to the detriment of the horse. But I would not be where I am today if it were not for Parelli, I am different around horses and see things from their point of view. Take for instance a Fun Ride, had the chance to practise water crossings, not a done deal until my horse could tackle them on his own and content to stand calmly then continue on our way. He gave several other horses a lead through. The only approach I could see from them was scream Get On, and use their whips. I suggested approach and retreat, reverse physcology (spelling - sorry) only to be met with blank looks!! Saw the funny side and soon will be departing this island for Texas, will sit on my porch and chuckle to myself. There are loads of different trainers etc out there, Tom Dorrance, Buck Brannaman, now I always watch and maybe just take one nugget of knowledge from all of them. If it benefits my horses that is the most important thing of all. Trying to find info or demo's for easy loading onto 747's, just take it all in our stride! Off to give my four legged friends their treats, tomatoes for one, oranges, pears, and melon, grapes and definetley not the mints with the hole! Hopefully this forum will broaden minds. Nicest compliment was thoroughbred owner shouting, wish my horse was easy to cross water like yours! That was our first outing, first water encounter, in fact loads of firsts that day. Would have liked to have told her, but I know if I had mentioned Parelli was part of it, she might have just glazed over!!

 

[foxigypsi]

Fact: TB's all over the world are backed and raceing at the age of 2 years, as are quarter horses so age is irrelivant for certain breeds as they develop quicker...although I do agree to make a race of backing is unfair and pat isn't exactly light. We all make bad desisions in life, only some have a perminant record of them be a little forgiving.

 

[foxigypsi]

I am a huge fan of Parelli and have read ALL of the posts here. I personally have found the help and confidence it has given me priceless. I agree that it is great if many none Parelli people are finding Natural and good ways using common scense, but I also agree that not everyone has common scense and could certainly use help from any direction. I see some terribly cruel things where people loose there tenper or just simply don't have a clue.

Parelli is given for free to those they feel would benefit most. It is used to encourage the disabled and allow them to achieve things they never believed possible for them. It has also been used with Juvenille Delinquents to aid in teaching them that their behaviour and attitude can directly affect their ability to reach a goal. Many apply this to their life after their time with the horses.

I personally am extreamly pleased that Parelli is comming to Stoneleigh.

Also I would like to note that I get Parelli instruction from a propper instructer for £20 an hour which is cheaper than other types of lessons by me. I also agree that I have had my Parelli kit for 4 years now and have not had to replace anything or add to it in anyway. My husband brought a cheaper version of the equiptment, because of the expense and 1 1/2 years later it is all fraying and falling appart.

 

[ruthc]

[ QUOTE ]
What's really interesting here - and this is from a non rider - is how many new members have joined up to defend parelli and how few long standing members are raving about it.

To be honest - it seems quite cultish - all these new people raving about it in an almost evangelical way. Not trying to be offensive - always good to have new people join - as long as they join in - rather than turn up to preach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, new people have turned up on the site to take part in this forum, but that can only be a good thing. I think the debate that has gone on has been a good one and I hope it has allowed us all to see things from each other's point of view. I for one have learned that some of you are lucky enough to have fantastic relationships with your horses because you have the natural ability and experience. I hope that some of you have learned that Parelli can offer people who may not have these natural talents a chance to develop them so they can also have a relationship with their horses based on trust and communication. We all want the same thing it's just that we have to take different journeys to get there. I hope that there are many more opportunities to share ideas and show that we're not a "cult", just a group of people who love what we do.

 

[TheBlackMoth]

Unfortunately - I believe the approach that has been taken here will have put more people off than encouraged them to try. Just my opinion - and remember it doesn't affect me - I am a non rider - but the level of unthinking acceptance and evangelism demonstrated is slightly scary.

 

[mandymcl]

How interesting! So many people are confident to pass negative comments on what they think of Parelli when they clearly haven't taken the time understand what it's all about?
If everybody took the time to understand what Parelli means the horse world would be a changed world. . . . Horses would be confident, trusting and safe and we could all live our dream of that 'perfect partnership'.

I have only spent the last couple of weeks gaining the knowledge of Parelli and my whole life has changed for the better. I have loved horses for over thirty years and this is the moment I have been waiting for all my life.....my dream is about to become a reality thanks to Pat and Linda Parelli, THANK YOU.

CAN'T WAIT TO SEE PARELLI AT THE BIRMINGHAM NEC IN AUGUST.

 

[JM07]

Good, common-sense old fashioned horsemanship, re-packaged and "americanised" with a hefty price-tag.

 

[PaddyMonty]

For me parelli falls in to the same category as a lot of other training aids......,..If you are experienced enough to use it properly without risk to horse then you probably dont need it

 

[Dovorian]

I'm totally opposed to the location, purely because it gives 'credibility' without proper foundation. Parelli is a good example of the entrepreneur at work - excellent marketing and seems a good way for the founders to make money.

 

[Kate_13]

I still can't help but think that it is all 'brainwashing!'.

The way that you are all 'explaining' about parelli is somewhat condrascending (sp?). You are all basically saying that if we don't wave a bit of string and an orange stick then we can't have a proper partnership with our horse!

What a load of tosh!

How do you think we back horses???? We spend weeks on the ground building trust and partnership and leadership with our horse, then we hop on! I have to say that with every horse I've backed I've built up a good relationship and not one of those horses refused to be sat on. One I sat on in the yard in just a headcollar and rode around! (oooh am I now a parelli follower? No, just in tune with my horse)

Please can you guys stop saying that just because we are not a cult follower that our horses don't like us and that we can't ride in true lightness!

As someone has said, we are all achieveing the same goal, so why preech to us about orange sticks!!!

And while I am ranting, some of us like to buy bridles and other shiny stuff in tack shops, of course our horse doesn't care, but we like it!

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
For me parelli falls in to the same category as a lot of other training aids......,..If you are experienced enough to use it properly without risk to horse then you probably dont need it


[/ QUOTE ]

That is so true, I only know one person who is Parelli trained that I respect as a trainer and you wouldn't even know it as she is basically a very good horsewoman first and foremost who happens to have done the training.

 

[VirginiaWylaars]

Pat and Linda Parelli have dedicated their lives to the horse. Their way of improving horses lives is to better educate people. By teaching people how to read horses and to understand what motivates horses, and then the appropriate stratagies to use, a clearer communication and a partnership can be acheived. I am very thankful to Pat and Linda for the horse knowledge they have shared with me and also for the life skills which are embroilled in their teachings. I am a better person for it.

 

[laura77]

Pat Parelli is not claiming to have invented anything new. The man himself says it is so old it is new again. What he and his wife Linda have done is put together a programme that anyone can follow to learn how to be a better horseman.

I have been studying Parelli for several years and I can tell you now that it is not a cult. The majority of people that I have met are the most accepting and understanding people I have ever met in the horse world. I know there are those Parelli students out there that get a little carried away, but that is just because like many of the people who do not follow Parelli, they are just passionate about their horses.

Some people do not want or need the Parelli programme and that is fine. I hope that their views will not stop the people who would like to find out more or maybe give it a try. I am now studying Level 3 and all I can say is that in my experience it has been an amazing journey and I have learnt so much not only about the horses in my life but also about myself.

 

[Weezy]

Could someone outline what the stages actually mean to them please.

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
What he and his wife Linda have done is put together a programme that anyone can follow to learn how to be a better horseman.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the element that bothers me.

I wonder what the reaction of parelli followers would be if someone suggest that they were going to learn to ride purely from books and DVD's
Fine if its a mechanical horse that always responds as expected. Real horses are somewhat different.

 

[Kate_13]

Agreed with 4faulter.

Humans don't just learn from books and DVD's, these are just materials that aid learning.

I work in medicine, could you imagine if I had just trained by reading and watching DVD's then decided to cannulate a person and give drugs willy nilly! Or decided that just because I have seen the DVD that I can perform a cardiac arrest resusitation!

Everything has to be done wih experienced people at hand.

Just a contoversial thought, has anyone wondered that the people who have turned to parelli were having problems with their horse becasue they wern't experienced enough or didn't have enough experiened people around them?

 

[laura77]

I appreciate that that would be a concern but the programme really does not work like that.
There is alot of support available to students. Yes there are the home study packs with books and Dvds but there are also instructors all around the world who run clinics and lessons to ensure people are on the right track. You can also contact instructors by phone or e-mail and can send videos etc if you are having any particular challenges and no one can get to you immediately. You also have access to mountains of on-line support through the savvy club.
Students are encouraged to start with their easiest horse first whilst they are learning themselves. Ofcourse this is not always possible and this is where the instructors are invaluable for guiding people through and keeping both the horses and the people safe while they are learning.

 

[Kate_13]

So in the middle of a resus I can call the Chief Ambulance officer and ask him what to do?????

I am sorry, but this doesn't ring true. How can you distance learn with online help how to train a horse????

Could you imagine the controversy if you could learn to back a horse from a DVD and online help????

 

[PaddyMonty]

All very good in theory but reality is majority of people just buy the packs.

 

[Folara]

[ QUOTE ]
Fact: TB's all over the world are backed and raceing at the age of 2 years, as are quarter horses so age is irrelivant for certain breeds as they develop quicker...although I do agree to make a race of backing is unfair and pat isn't exactly light. We all make bad desisions in life, only some have a perminant record of them be a little forgiving.

[/ QUOTE ]


Perhaps I should point you in the direction of Dr. Deb Bennetts work as to why 2 year olds should not be backed. Makes interesting reading and I am sure once more people understand the physiology of the horse they to would hesitate. I would have thought such well educated and informed people as the Parellis would have known this too ...... sadly it appears I was wrong!!

"Just a few points from that article are summarized here:

No horse, of any breed or bloodline, is mature before the age of 5 ½.

The earliest-maturing horses are small, scrubby, range-bred mares.
Male horses tend to lag about 6 months behind female herd members kept under the same circumstances. Good feeding tends to prolong growth and delay maturity.

No horse is skeletally mature at age 2.


There are both advantages and disadvantages of starting horses at age 2 or earlier. Unless there is a compelling economic reason, I advise waiting to start young horses undersaddle until they are 4.

There is more than one "growth plate".
The one growth plate that most people know about is the one "at the knee" (actually, at the bottom of the radius-ulna bone just above the knee). Every bone in the skeleton outside the skull contains at least one growth plate. Each limb bone has one at the top, one at the bottom, and may have others (on prongs or projections such as the tip of the elbow or the third trochanter of the femur).

Maturation follows a definite pattern.
Individual portions of the skeleton become mature when the growth plate nearest them fuses to the bone shaft. There is a schedule for this over the horse's body: the lower down in the limbs, the earlier in life the growth plates fuse.

The last parts of the skeleton to become mature are the vertebrae and teeth.
The last teeth erupt in a male horse at age 5 ½ to 6. The last vertebral growth plates also fuse at about this age, or later.

The slowest-maturing horses are tall, long-necked individuals.
Largeness itself tends to delay maturity, and long-necked horses tend to have the caudal cervical plates fuse quite late, even up to age 8.
Early riding can damage either the young horse's limbs or its back, although gross damage is rare. Subtle damage, which may only show up on X-ray, or which may show up even years later, is very common.
Nevertheless, the main reason to avoid riding the 2 year old or younger horse is not to preserve its bones but to preserve its posture: young horses readily learn to clamp their back muscles to "defend" against the rider's weight, whereas 4 year olds and up rarely feel an instinctive need to do this. Not having learned to clamp their backs, these horses produce roundness and collection with much greater ease.

Owners can and should learn how to handle young horses, and can teach them many things which build skills, muscle, and postural habits good for riding. Such a program starts with the foal's first lessons in haltering, leading, and having its feet handled."

Referenced from: http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs3835

 

[laura77]

This is where things are different. The study packs are not about training horses they are a people training programme to help you learn to read the horse and know where to be, when to be there and what to do when you get there.

As far as backing or starting a horse with on-line or Dvd help, unfortunately at the moment horses are started all over the world by people who have very little or no experience and many people and horses get hurt. If Parelli disappered tomorrow this would still continue. To be able to start a horse using Parelli methods you should first complete Level 3 of the programme and you would then spend several months training with Pat himself to ensure you have the competence and skills necessary. There is nothing in the home study packs to teach people how to start horses and it is actively discouraged at this level.

 

[chris_gratton]

As a 'middle aged woman who was too afraid to ride' I thought you might like to hear from me. In actual fact middle aged women represent a good proportion of horse owners, I can't remember the exact figure but I think we are in the majority. Although I rode a lot as a teenager and had my own horses I found that when I returned to horse-ownership aged 40+ I had in fact forgotten many of the things that used to come naturally to me. I bought a completely unsuitable horse as many of us do, became too afraid to ride and was then stuck (I'm sure many of you will have seen this pattern!). It was at that point that I discovered Parelli and it was a huge relief because the Parelli programme said 'don't ride until you feel ready and you have these basic ground skills in place', and I can't tell you how liberating that felt to as scared, middle aged lady who only wanted the best for her distant, distrustful and 'sick of humans' horse.

Like everything else Parelli can be done badly and it is easy to get stuck in level 1 and never progress past boring your horse to death (but I think there are many worse things for horses than that!) and sadly you do see this, however I don't think this is peculiar to Parelli, you see it in traditional riding/training too.

In response to the comments on expensive equipment, over the last 4 years I have bought 2 halters, (one large, one pony) a short and long rope and a carrot stick and string) I use the short rope and halter every day, nothing needs replacing. I think I probably paid around £120 for all of it. I also bought 3 packs that came to about £400. That's in 4 years. I don't think that's too expensive, a lot less than many people pay for lessons, tack etc. And it is a choice, no-one forces you to buy the kit, just like no-one forces you to have expensive lessons with a (for example) top show jumping instructor or buy the best kind of saddle you can find, again it is a choice.

Personally I'm really glad I discovered Parelli, it awakened a whole lot of curiosity in me and the research I've done because of that has made me aware of methods, trainers and horsemen all over the world that I didn't know existed. You do get the odd Parelli evangalist but please try to be kind and forgive them! Love for the horse is what we all have in common, whatever method or discipline we choose to be most interested in.

For those who feel affronted that there is a sudden rush to this board to defend Parelli, I think as one poster has already said we tend to frequent other boards usally but the link to this forum was in horse and hound so you will definitely get a numer of us here out of sheer curiosity.

Some of you see Parelli as a 'cult' or 'marketing machine' (if you look closely you will see it is really neither) but it is actually a sound foundation for building a relationship between horse and human. Most of us who follow Parelli are simply doing the very best we can to be the best we can for our horses. I am sure that people who frequent this board and follow other methods and disciplines feel they are doing the same.

Surely it is best to look for the common ground rather than the differences between us?

Best wishes to all of you whatever method or discipline you choose to follow.
Chris G & Jazz