What do you think is the least you can earn & still afford livery?

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SW3

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Like the title says really - what do you think is the LEAST you can earn & still afford full livery, a lesson say every fortnight and some low level BE competing (just for one horse.... oh and still contributing a fair share to the mortgage and bills etc - to avoid a complete anti - horse mutiny from the OH)?!!

Like a lot of people (I'd guess) I've been doing a job I really don't enjoy for a number of years now so that I can afford to keep and compete a horse BE. The job pays pretty well but its long hours and fairly soul destroying subject matter (very grey suited!) and for a long time I've been thinking I'd love to do something a bit more worthwhile (such as teaching maybe?) and preferably with more time out of the office so I can ride more(!) but have shied away from it on the basis that it would make keeping the neddy a LOT more financially difficult. I don't have any land and have recently moved to a new area (Bristol) so it would be livery at commercial rates as I don't have parents or horsey friends close at hand with land or facilities.

Would love to be able to change jobs but not if it meant having to be horseless... or perhaps its just stupid thinking that you should be able to enjoy your job to some level at all?!
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Good question. I am starting a new job in January with a big pay cut, for the exact reasons you have stated. My horse is on DIY livery and I don't have lessons or compete but do regularly hunt. Sorry I can't answer your question at the moment but I think if it is something you want to do then there are cuts you can make, such as moving to DIY livery especially if you will have more time on you hands.

I have come to the conclusion that it is far more important to have a job that you enjoy rather than earning mega bucks, as at the end of the day you spend the majority of your life working.
 
Would your horse have to be on full livery - would you consider part or assisted DIY livery, if you did take a lesser paid job but had more time to do your own horse?

But, then I am happy earning less than some people, but doing a job I enjoy. I've had jobs that I literally wanted to cry at the thought of a week at work, even though the money was better - it ended up affecting the quality of the rest of my life, as I was stressed and miserable the whole time!
 
The livery bit isn't the issue, its the BE that will be the killer.

Write a list of all your outgoings (every single teeny weeny thing, from the occassional magazine to buying lunch to insurance) and see what you can cut out. Then that should get you to the figure you need to be taking home after tax.
 
I think it is only you that can answer this question, because it is so dependant on your personal circumstances and choices of 'supplier'.

Firstly, work out all of your horsey outgoings eg livery, hay, shavings, feed, vets fees, insurance, farrier, dentist, worming + anything else you buy (rugs, treats, lessons, etc)

When I did this to see if I could afford a horse I ended up identifying a budget of £540 per month was required. Having now bought my horse and shopped around this has reduced to £450 per month - assisted DIY.

Once you have worked out your outgoings you need to add on your income tax, NI etc so for £450 per month I need to earn approx £585 gross income (only very rough - I added 30%), which equals a salary of £7k per annum.

Obviously you then need to add on the 'fair share' contribution to your mortgage, bills etc that you mentioned.

Good luck, there is more to life than work - but it sure does help finance the 'fun'.

Holly B
 
Part livery is an option for sure. Does assisted DIY mean that the YO will cover you if you are away on work / holiday / sick whatever? ... because if so, the answer is yes depending on the job, which I guess is the point, I have to figure out whether it is viable to retrain to teach and then look at DIY / Part liveries in the area. I have friends that teach and the large number of hours they work would lead me to think that DIY would be a bit of a challenge... but I doubt you could afford anything other than DIY on a newly qualified teacher's salary (21k)? Argh, maybe I'm just being spoilt ... wanting it all(!)
 
I have several teachers as friends and in the family. The amount of time spent varies significantly depending on the subject. My sister switched from being an English teacher to a Maths teacher and the amount of time required preparing, marking etc dropped off considerably. No lengthy essays to mark, no books to read and critique...

So, chose your subject carefully.
 
yikes. just started doing as you suggest for both horsey and non horsey spends. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that I currently spend FAR too much on luxuries... £10 a week just on the daily pre-work latte?! (my mother would be horrified!) H&H, Eventing, EWW, the plethora of tatty celeb/fashion mags I find myself compelled to buy on a regular basis - they can't (aren't!) all be necessary.

Right, my (highly festive) fun job for this evening is going to be to draw up an honest spreadsheet of my outgoings - just from starting the exercise I can see there is an awful lot of unnecessary spending that I can cull.

Thanks for the wise words folks. Holly B, I can see you did a really thorough job on your accounting. I think you are right, and it has to be a case of being truthful (and a little bit brutal) with myself to figure out how much of my outgoings are necessities and therefore what I need to earn to keep the boy in a manner a least not toooo far away from the one he has become accustomed to.
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Thats an interesting point about subjects (and another issue in itself) - my degree was in Law and German with A levels in English Lit, German, History (and General Studies). The teaching helpline tells me the subject I am most qualified to do a PGCE in is citizenship - which is fine by me if i could teach history and politics too but I'm told a lot of people think citizenship is a bit mickey mouse and its hard to swap to teach something like history or english post qual because they have plenty of teachers with specialist PGCEs. Argh sorry wittering now!
 
It really is the little non essentials that add up. I can recommend a site called www.moneysavingexpert.com as there are lots of money saving ideas.

I managed to get my food bill (family of 4) down from £500-£700 per month to £200-£250, but it did require a total rethink and some home cooking/preparation - which the kids loved and was healthier and more environmentally friendly. We effectively had a free holiday with the savings.

The latest 'grocery thread' is here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2111897

I have slipped back into old habits, but have begun returning to the more frugal living to help finance the horse. So, takeaways are now more rare, I don't buy so many cakes, sweets, wine etc

It is amazing what you can do if you try (and remain focussed)
 
That's exactly what I was like SW3! I was buying OK magazine, Heat Magazine, Your Horse, Horse, Horse and Hound plus various others on a weekly basis! I was easily spending £7 or £8 a day on lunches and buying 'bits and pieces' out and about, but £20 here and £30 there over a week all added up!

Now, I take packed lunch 4 out of the 5 days - one day, we all order lunch out (I refuse to give up that luxury!), I have one magazine on subscription, I don't take my debit card out with me unless I have to - I either have cash or a credit card, which makes me think very carefully if I 'need' it or not. Nine times out of ten, I'll put whatever it is back. High street shops are my friend - particularly places like TK Max, where you can get nice clothing still, but on a budget.

I've cut down on socialising costs - I still go out, but I might drive and so not drink or if I'll buy my own drinks, rather than rounds, which meant I drank more because other people were! Plus, I'm sure my liver is much healthier too.

It might sound extreme not having my debit card with me - but I'm not very good at resisting temptation, I'm scared to use my credit card ... so at least now, I can walk away, think it over and if I still want/need it I'll go back another time and not have brought useless items on a whim, which was I was doing before.

I must admit, sometimes I do get bored of having to 'budget' when other people appear to be blowing money on a whim ... but, I can afford to keep my hose, do most of the things I want and have a job I enjoy.

I'm on assisted DIY - but I do a lot of it myself, as I can. I only really use the full livery service if I'm going away. Normally, he is just brought in for me when I'm at work - but one of my friends has their horse on part-livery (turned in/out, mucked out, groomed, rugs changed etc) on a five day a week basis. I know I'm lucky at a yard which is quite flexible and will do what you want
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Ive found I live to my means, whatever that may be. I had a decent job and was on almost double what I am now but I dont remember really being much better off. I now work less hours and have more time to ride etc. It may not always be like this so Im making the most of it. I dont seem to squander money on things and have finally stopped being the 'rug queen' but I can still afford to get all the things I need.
If you are doing less hours then couldnt you go part livery as you will have more time.
 
'not very good at resisting temptation' is most definitely a phrase that could have been written about me and all of the indulgences you have given up are also familiar(!) - 2010 will just have to be the year of living sensibly methinks!

ps Your yard sounds good - I don't suppose it's anywhere near Bristol ??!
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I would certainly like / hope to do fewer hours but if i changed from my current sector to say teaching, from what I understand the hours would be quite busy during term time but then I could go DIY during the hols... so crux would be to find a nice friendly flexible yard which would put up with my chopping and changing!

Thanks for your help guys, way I see it, I have to: a) do some realistic numbers to figure out my minimum salary reqts in order to be able to do what I want with the beast(!); b) shave a slice off my current slightly irresponsible outgoings by stopping spending on unnecessary fripperies without thinking about it; c) look into career change oppos (the idea of working in my current sector for the rest of my work life makes me go slightly cold!); and d) depending on the above, do some research to find a flexible livery yard that would allow me to change from full to part to DIY and back up and around as required...

Appreciate your help folks - its good to talk to people who dont immediately think you are a total nutcase for prioritising having a horse so highly that you would factor it into your career objectives!
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I think it is only you that can answer this question, because it is so dependant on your personal circumstances and choices of 'supplier'.

Firstly, work out all of your horsey outgoings eg livery, hay, shavings, feed, vets fees, insurance, farrier, dentist, worming + anything else you buy (rugs, treats, lessons, etc)

When I did this to see if I could afford a horse I ended up identifying a budget of £540 per month was required. Having now bought my horse and shopped around this has reduced to £450 per month - assisted DIY.

Once you have worked out your outgoings you need to add on your income tax, NI etc so for £450 per month I need to earn approx £585 gross income (only very rough - I added 30%), which equals a salary of £7k per annum.

Obviously you then need to add on the 'fair share' contribution to your mortgage, bills etc that you mentioned.

Good luck, there is more to life than work - but it sure does help finance the 'fun'.

Holly B

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Holly I LOVE your accounting. I thought the thoroughness and down to earth-ness of it sounded like a familiar style (I'm an MSE-er too, love that forum).

I've done a similar sum but ended up with a higher amount - around 800 / month inc a bit of competing and a couple of lessons... would it be a total pain for you to do a full breakdown of what you've accounted for what? I've been out of the owning game for a while and i'm sure prices will have gone up (they never go down, do they..!)
 
Hello fellow MSE'r - perhaps there should be a horsey thread over there
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I've pasted my budgetting below:

Original Budget
Livery 347
Hay 44
Shavings 43
Feed Inc
Vets Fees 6
Insurance 40
Farrier 41
Dentist 6
Worming 11
Lessons

Total 538

Actual Budget
Livery 204
Hay Inc
Shavings 33
Feed 33
Vets Fees 6
Insurance 32
Farrier 14
Dentist 6
Worming 11
Lessons 80

Total 419

The biggest saving was on the choice of livery, I was originally looking at assisted where they turned out and brought in and provided food. The livery I have chosen is turnout but owner brings in, ad lib hay is included.

My horse eats very little hard food but tucks in to hay, so this was an unexpected bonus. She does not have shoes so the farrier only costs £20 each 6 week visit, I had budgetted on a shod horse.

We are being frugal with the shavings, removing wet each day and skipping out. I've also begun to catch her pee in a bucket as she always 'goes' as soon as she comes in - today she didn't - first time in 3 weeks!!!

Shavings will be reduced in the summertime as it is 24/7 turnout.

We also got a great deal on Petplan insurance.

I did not allow for lessons in my original budget, but we have a lady on the yard who does 30 mins for £10, so have allowed for a weekly lesson for me and my daughter in the new budget.

We are no where near 'competing' level yet - so that expense will not be requred for ages.

Hope that helps, would be interested to see what your budget is based on.

Holly B
 
In a different vein, is there any way you can translate your job/qualifications to less hours/more riding friendly hours, perhaps working for yourself? I'm guessing you're possibly something in the legal line, eg there's a local lady offers a will writing service - as she has young children she vists people at weekends evenings etc. Or could you work a 4 day week (or 5 shorter days in the summer) and suffer the cut in pay to do more riding?
 
Don't want to put a dampener on your plans but be aware that teaching is very competitive to get into at the moment. I believe there is a shortage of specialist citizenship teachers. How are you going to live while you train? PGCE means being a full time student. If you are lucky enough to get a GTP place max you will get paid is £14,000. You will not get a GTP place unless you have a lot of experience in school.
 
Not at all - I've got to be realistic and I'm grateful for your half halt (as it were!) before I get too carried away - I think I could cover the PGCE year (incl horse, living expenses etc) from my savings, but that would wipe said savings out so clearly it would be a big decision... Actually, I hope you don't mind, but you speak as someone who is well versed in what is going on in the profession so I'm going to PM you in the hope that I can pick your brain.
 
As I have said on a previous post this evening - I suppose it all depends on your priorities really.
So - why not just get out of bed two hours earlier in the morning and do evening stables after work and forget the FL? You might have to miss out somewhat on your social life, especially during the winter months but what do you consider more important??
 
Because my current working hours are not predictable - often very late evenings, occasional all nighters and frequent early starts - and nor is my working location. For example, three times in the last fortnight, I have been sent to cover meetings in other parts of the country on less than 24 hours notice - no big deal you may think, but it would take a saint of a YO to put up with chopping and changing in the basis of care I was asking for to THAT degree and as I'm sure you can imagine, I absolutely would not want my horse to suffer, hence the original post about career / life / salary changing. I agree with your comment that it all depends on a person's priorities - again hence the original post. I'm just trying to investigate the parameters of the possible. Its got to be sensible to consider these things thoroughly hasn't it?
 
hehe! embarrassing thought it is, I have to admit I have wasted money on that too, having bought tickets every week over the last month ..... and have never had more than 2 numbers come up, .... will i never learn ?!! (answer maybe, if i learn to listen to money saving expert and my mother!)
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