What Do You Think of Punishment?

For what?

It depends entirely on circumstances really I guess. I try to avoid situations where I could get bitten/kicked/crushed, a lot comes down to a horse knowing his basic ground manners, and the handler being aware that horses are, well, horses.

Intentional biting gets yelled at and probably a whack, kicking ditto.

I use backing up a lot, if a horse barges me he backs up, if he naps he backs up etc.

If a horse attacked me with intent (and the one that springs to mind was a fed-up riding school pony mare, until then I didn't know I could vault fences!) then I would use whatever was to hand to protect myself, but that's not punishment rather self-preservation. After the event, there's no point calling said monster to you and beating the living daylights out of him.
 
i agree with punishment where its due - with all animals. like you say, if a horse bites, it gets a smack on the nose and yelled at, if it kicks, a smack on the bum. bit different under saddle - ive always prided myself on being able to tell the difference between a 'naughty' stop and a genuine one - if i ever gave my hors ecaus eto refuse a fence, i would always pat her neck and canter a circle, without stressing her. even if she was at fault, she rarely got more than a slap down the neck - i hate it when people lay into their horses in the ring.


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Punishment is ok - but the punishment should be in-line with the crime.

Murphy constantly goes for me, so now when he does I jump round a scare him. He tries to run away and then realises he cant and will have to walk with me but not bite me. Its gotten a lot better. I used to smack him but it had no effect, he'd just bite me again two seconds later...

If he kicks out at another horse he gets a good smack, too dangerous for half measures. Other things I find the best punishment is to ignore him and he can tell Im pissed off with him.

At the end of the day no-one should bully a horse, but we have to remember while a slap is hard to us, its simply a tickle to a horse and Ive seen my horse give other horses a boot to tell them to F OFF so I know he's hardly made of cotton wool.
 
How else do they learn right from wrong? I was taught to be quick to praise, but also to be equally quick to reprimand when necessary - particularly when dealing with youngsters.
 
With the exception of loading and clipping mine is a complete angel
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I joke not

Loading we now get her in with a several hard taps of a schooling whip from the loader on her bum - harsh but it works.

Clipping so far it has been sedalin and a twitch, but will keep trying
 
tbh I'd rather punish some of the horse owners I see at shows than the horses

some of the horses need a medal for putting up with their owners
 
its better to make the horse do some form of work each time he does something wrong - eg barging u make him back up - wont stand - make him back up, turn on the forehand etc - eventually they learn its easier to do want u want. For biters u shouldnt hit on head as can cause headshyness - one hing that works with biters or horse that r all over u with their head is everytime they come at u with head - u go at them with ur hands all over their head rubbing, playing etc etc until they r sick of it, then do it some more! they idea is the horse learns each time he comes at u , ur going to do his head in! hitting a horse hard or causing pain in any way only reinforces to a horse that u r a predator and therefore they should always be wary of u. Its much better to have the attitude to make its hard for the horse to do wat u dont want, and easy for them to do wat u want. Obviously there are exceptions but this is a great general rule.
 
Sorry, but just how is going over the horse's head with your hands repeatedly better for biters than tapping them on the nose? Surely one tap is over and done with, but repeatedly keeping your hands on their head would only be more likely to make them head shy?

And give you more chance of being bitten again...
 
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tbh I'd rather punish some of the horse owners I see at shows than the horses

some of the horses need a medal for putting up with their owners

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Agree with that. If I'm leading down to the field and the horse starts trotting or pulling I turn round make my way back to the stable, put the horse in for a few minutes and start again. They usually realise after the 2nd time of being put in a stable they need to behave
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With feeding they usually dive at the bucket. I raise my hand turn my back to them, push them out the way and then put the bucket down.

Can't stand bargy ponies/horses, they need basic ground manners!!
 
*With feeding they usually dive at the bucket. I raise my hand turn my back to them, push them out the way and then put the bucket down.

Can't stand bargy ponies/horses, they need basic ground manners!! *

agree with that, i dont even go into my horses box till he's backed up out of my way to let me in
 
I agree with Sikaran, be quick with praise & just as quick with a reprimand. It must be immediate so the horse can associate the reprimand or praise with what he has done immediately before.
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tbh I'd rather punish some of the horse owners I see at shows than the horses

some of the horses need a medal for putting up with their owners

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i couldn't agree more.

Sorry if it was a bit vague. it's just that people like NH peeps (michael peace, kelly marks and monty roberts, the parelli's, richard maxwell ... believe in correction rather than punishment.
I accept that many people punish their horses, but i most definitely don't agree with it as in most cases it's the rider's fault/the horse is being punished for being a horse, etc, from what i know and see.
tricky topic.
more opinions please - anyone not agree with it?
 
it's interesting, actually. i visit another horse forum where most of the people there don't compete, and where horses get repeatedly smacked for a refusal, etc, they see as completely unacceptable.

Why is this? What makes some peope see it as acceptable and others not? i am aware that many people on this forum compete, and this seems to make a big difference.
 
rubbing the horses head with your hands till hes sick of it wont cause headshyness because its not causing him ANY PAIN! the whole idea is to put him off biting/ being all over u with his head. the problem is horses dont think like we do, they think laterally - u have to make them WANT to be with u ,& work for u rather than making them HAVE to work with u = big difference if u punish a horse with pain every time he does something that YOU think is wrong ( he wont know its wrong) then all you are creating is a horse which works for u out of fear of punishment . you still have to get the horse to respect you, its just going about it in a different way. this is just my opinion and it works for me!
 
Punishment is the use of an unpleasant stimulus after undesired behaviour has occured, in order to stop that behaviour. Hitting a horse when it does something you don't want is punishment.

Negative reinforcement is the use of a stimulus that will cause a response that stops an undesired behaviour. Putting a fence up around the field stops the horse by it walking into the fence and the horse learns to stay in the field, which is the behaviour we want it to give.

Positive reinforcement is a response to a stimulus presented by the horse, that encourages a behaviour that we want. Horse lowers head, gets reward, so the horse is more likely to lower his head to see if it gets a reward.

Punishment is generally ineffective. It has to be administered immediately the undesired behaviour occurs - impossible for a human to do to a horse, because of the reaction time. It has to be administered in such an amount to stop the behaviour recurring - if your horse ever does it again, it shows the punishment was ineffective; if your horse never does it again, you might have punished excessively and you may never know.

The best course of action with a fight or flight animal, is to get it right from the start. Teach your horse to move out of your way when you ask, then it can never bite or barge. Do simple leading exercises and always keep calm, flight animals can't learn if they get excited. If a horse gets stressed in a small area, it might try to fight back and a 500kg horse will always win.

Once you have taught your horse to move and stay out of your space and are leading your horse on a loose rein, your need for punishment may occur when you ride.

If you feel you need to punish your horse when riding it, you are probably asking it to do something that it doesn't understand. Try to give it the confidence to do what you want correctly, instead of punishing it when it doesn't do it right. Shouting No! at your child every time it does something it shouldn't, makes your child think you are a nutter and does not teach it what you would actually like it to do.

If you wouldn't do it to your child don't do it to your horse.
 
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