What do you think of this perlino stallion?

I don't like him one bit. Ungainly looking (although it might be his awkward 3-year old phase, it might not be), looks like he's got a roach back at least and not sure about his rear end!

Don't be too swayed by colour.
 
Thanks for your help. I did think he looked a little 'ungainly' but thought it may be just bad photo angles, plus im terrible at conformation and so am quite a poor judge myself.

I love buckskins, but would rather have a lovely foal of any colour than a poor buckskin foal.
smile.gif
 
If you are looking for a cremello to breed Buckskin then why not pay us a vist to see the approved Cremello WB stallion Milky Way who is standing with us next year.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_21312.html
Having already met this chap he is a really nice stallion with a lovely temperament.
He arrives with us next weekend and will be available to view after then.
 
Don't think it fair to comment, but yuk comes to mind. It is wrong of me to comment on a public forum, but I dont see why he was left entire, but proof is in the pudding so lets see what he achieves under saddle & with his offspring. I have seen much nicer stallions for the same money.
 
Not keen on this stallion to be honest - although it's a bit hard to assess him properly as that they don't seem to have a single conformation-shot of him anywhere on the website!

Milky Way looks very nice, and Opie on here also has a super cremello stallion, McJonnas.
 
Hi Vivienne,
You are more than welcome to come and view Alba in the flesh. Many people have been to see him and absolutely adore him, sending multiple mares to be covered by him and I have repeat bookings for next year. So he is proving to be very popular. He is also very fertile, always getting mares in foal on their first cycle.
2008 was his first crop of foals and we have been absolutely delighted with them, as has everyone who has viewed them. Alba's foals have been sold for dressage, eventing, showjumping, showing and hunting, as well as for breeding to some well respected sport horse breeders, and to a vet that specialises in equine reproduction - what better advert for my foals/stallion could I have? I have recently backed him myself and ride out on him regularly. He is proving very trainable, willing and forward going, whilst always maintaining a level head despite being a stallion that does live coverings. We have big hopes for him in the future but for now I am just taking it slowly whilst he continues to mature. He has the wonderful big warmblood movement and makes a beautiful shape over a fence.
Anyway we have a £100 discount on until the end of the year, should you wish to pre-book a mare to him. Please do come and visit, you will be made very welcome and you can judge him for yourself.
Kind regards
Clare
 
Echo the above you have to pick a stallion that compliments your mare first and foremost before colour comes into it. It might look pretty but if it can't do anything then you are in trouble. If you really want buckskin then you have to know what genes are available from Both parents or you might get something you didn’t want.

If you are really serious about getting a buckskin then the only sure way is to get both parents tested for their A series and E series genes, the mare may look black but there have been a lot of mistakes with blacks!!! I believe that the golden buckskin comes from a genetic bay, so having picked your short list of complimentary double dilute stallions, you then have to pick the one that has the best chance of giving you a bay from your mare if she is genetically black!

A perlino does not guarantee you a buckskin, that will depend on the coat colour genes it carries, likewise a smokey cream can carry chestnut and if the mare does too then you get a palomino. However if your mare is homozygous for black and you use a cremello that has two Agouti genes for Bay as opposed to Brown then you would be very likely to get a golden buckskin, but again there are other factors at work so I would never guarantee you would get exactly what you wanted!!!
 
i think he looks a nice horse,although they could do with a few good confo shots of him standing on hard ground!
im not into his bloodlines so no idea if they are good or what level the parents competed at so hard to say!
i would want to see the confo shots(to make sure he is well made and would compliment the mare), make sure he had competition record both his own and his parents and see more offspring before making a decision personally
colour should be way down on the list of priorities when breeding-the mare must be suited to the stallion and the paring likely to produce a foal of the type you want.if its the right colour then its a bonus!
 
[ QUOTE ]
He is on this website http://www.halonasportshorses.co.uk/ 'Alba'

I am thinking of using him on my TB mare. I really want a nice all-round sporthorse and I dream of having a buckskin!

My mare is a black, 15.2 slender TB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go and see him, he's absolutely stunning and well worth the trip. The photos dont do him justice. I have sent two mares to him this year and wanted to buy one of his filly foals but both were snapped before I had chance. I will get in quicker next year though and make sure I put my name to one. Alba has the best temperment of any stallion I have met, you can cuddle him all day long. I cant wait to see my foals by him and will definately be using him again in the future. I really did want to buy the buckskin and white colt by Alba, but I dont have the fascilities to keep an entire otherwise I would. I have a Black Tb mare and Black and white warmblood mare in foal to him, both were maiden mares and got straight in foal, and were back home scanned in foal within four weeks. I cant recommend this boy enough and I am extremely fussy what stallions I use on my mares! I am a sport horse judge and a professional dressage rider, so I do know what I am talking about. I haven't had my mares colour tested, so I may get palomino's or buckskins but Alba is homozygous for Agouti so I know I dont have to worry about getting a smokey black.
 
For me, I am not fussy on any cremello's and personally would not breed to one as whilst yes you can get the lovely bucksin's, palomino's etc. I wouldn't want to take the chance of getting a cremello. That said....whilst yes the lack of confo shots etc on the site make judging him difficult I would not say that he is a bad stamp in himself...especially if you consider the fact that he IS only a 3 yr old. The pics do not show him at his best as in them he is out in the field being a youngster, whereas the pics of McJonnas and Milky Way are all decent prepped 'posh' shots. I think that with this guy you would be better off leaving him for anonther year and using a different stallion and then see how he grows into himself as well as see if he grades successfully with a studbook.

Out of Milky Way and McJonnas, my PERSONAL preferance would have to be McJonnas as I think he has some real class about him and that his foals are in a league of their own. The benefit of using one of these guys is that McJonnas' offspring are eligible for registration with the SSH and Milky Way's with the ZfDp and ECHA societies.
 
There wouldn't be a chance of a cremello from a cremello (or other double-dilute) crossed with any non-dilute ... the "benefit" of breeding your non-dilute to a double-dilute is that you are guaranteed a single-dilute offspring (palomino, buckskin, smokey black).
 
Firstly would like to say that I am not a fan of coloured horses, whether that be piebalds or Cremellos etc.

However, if you look at the three stallion that have been mentioned:

Alba - Says he is Licensed with the Palamino Society - Maybe you could say what results he received and what the Licensing entailed, as I could not find out anything on the society website, nor was he listed as a stallion on the website. What details can you give on his ancestry? Only three so not old enough for competitions as yet, so performance unknown.

McJonnas - Prefer him to Alba I am afraid, however, again on the owners website all it speaks about is his colour and no other factor of the ancestry, so what has his forebearers produced in competition......or is it just another gimmick stallion for colour only with no proof of pedigree performance? On the owners website it says he has done some dressage and qualified for the Regionals, and am assuming this was at Prelim level as he does not have any BD points. He is graded with the SSH as "Listed" which is the bottom level, which means his scores were between 6.5 - 6.9 on average for conformation, movement and jumping ability. Has progeny on the website, some are ok and others I dont like.

Milky Way - Prefer this stallion to them all, looks very well put together. At least he has a performance pedigree with some of the bigger known studbooks. He has also been graded with higher profile Studbooks than the above two. However, again does not say what grades he got at his Licensing, and there are not many foals I could see by him on the owners website, so cannot tell what kind of sire he is. Due to an injury he has not been out in sport but according to the website he is coming back under saddle now.

I have to admit though, when I hear people talking about using coloureds/cremellos etc it is all because of colour only. Because I think there are far far better solid coloured stallions going about with excellent pedigrees and results compared to about 90% of the coloured horse stallions standing at stud.

The same goes for people who wish not to have chestnut horses....no wonder most the Dutch and German teams are full of them, as they have the pick of some of the best chestnut horses available.......because people in the UK seem to be so colour blind to quality horses in IMHO!

Top Quality Has No Colour!
 
This is NOT a comment on the quality of any of the stallions but I think it is a little unfair to say ECHA and Europees Stamboek are better studbooks than SSH. I will take that remark back if someone who has no vested interest & has attended gradings for all three studbooks can say it is so.

Quality of horses should not assumed to be better across the board because they are graded in non UK studbooks - it is the horse that counts and the studbook can be taken as a guide, some better than others of course eg Trak, Hanno, KWPN etc I don't dispute that , but in the smaller studbooks it is still down to the individual horse.

If we keep doing down UK studbooks, stallion owners will wonder why bother to take their stallions at all. I remember the thread were someone's delight at their stallion grading with SHBGB turned into an SHBGB bashing thread. Horrible
frown.gif


Sorry rant over
frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I will take that remark back if someone who has no vested interest & has attended gradings for all three studbooks can say it is so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont have any vested interest (I have no stallions) and have details of all three Studbooks. This is not a playground so your quote of "take that remark back" I have ignored! I have a right to my own opinion.

At what point did I say anything about the stallions being better because there are graded in a non-UK studbook. YOU are the one who has just said that, and YOU are the one who has mentioned more about the SSH, not I (I was only quoting what is on their website).

However, if we are talking about Studbooks then it is worth noting that the SSH are not even full members of the WBFSH (associate members and full members are not the same):

Associate Members of WBFSH

Estonian Sport Horse Breeders Society / Eesti Sporthoubuste Kasvatatjate Selte (ESHB)

Kisberi and Gidran Horse Breeders Association

Polish Horse Breeders Association

The Scottish Sports Horse(SSH)



The above taken from the WBFSH Member list as of todays date!

[ QUOTE ]
it is the horse that counts and the studbook can be taken as a guide

[/ QUOTE ]

Am sorry but that is utter rubbish!! Yes the horse does count, but the Studbook is far more than just a guide, otherwise the top studs of the world would not care what Studbook their horses were in!

At the end of the day people have the right to choose, and I think you dont give stallion owners enough credit to know which Studbook to go for, and the reasons for their choices!

Also people have the right to their own opinion, and that is what I gave on all the stallions above. YOU are the one that started to rant about the various Studbooks.

You are making a big assumption that all stallion owners must be naive with your comment of [ QUOTE ]
If we keep doing down UK studbooks, stallion owners will wonder why bother to take their stallions at all

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Sorry Anet if I have upset you with my post.
frown.gif

But what you have just written does imply your opinion is that SSH is a lesser studbook then ECHA & Europee Staembok and all I am saying is that I don't think it is. The "vested interest" comment was not aimed at you as I have no idea who you are. It was genuine comment because my opinion is open & flexible so if someone, including yourself, can tell me that I am wrong I am very happy to learn & take it on board. I have not been to all three of the studbooks gradings so I rely on other people's experiences to learn from and sorry what I wrote probably did not convey that thought well.

However it does happen that poeple do assume a horse graded in ANY non UK studbook is automatically better than any horse graded in a UK studbook and all I am saying is that is not always the case.

This thread is about coloured horses & they are often graded in smaller studbooks and my remarks are applying to that situation & those horses rather than the big studbooks league which I mentioned in my other posts. Coloured horses as a whole are improving all the time which is brilliant but in assessing a coloured horse I think the studbook is less important & the horse is more important. All shades of grey rather than black & white
smile.gif
.

Again none of these comments are in relation to these three stallions before I upset anyone else
smile.gif
 
Yes SSH are listed as associate members but I can't see ECHA and Europees Stamboek on the list at all?

It does say Milky Way foals can also get ZFDP papers is he fully lic. and approved with ZFDP? As yes they are full WBFSH members.

But still would argue that SSH as good as ZFDP on grading procedure, xrays etc. Only my opinion, but I would think it's as tough to get graded SSH as ZFDP, have to agree with Firm.
 
Chill people, there is no need to make a big deal out of this. I was far from complimentary about the stallion in question yet his owner refrained from coming back on a personal level. Let’s not let this post degenerate in the way others have. There will be people who want to breed a specific colour so that will limit them, it does not make them ignorant or a lower standard breeder.
 
I think I would take SSH over ES and ECHA any day. ZfDP is a different matter. Afraid I agree with Firm that the poster did make it sound like ES and ECHA were superior studbooks, and I personally wouldnt say so at all.
And that is a factor as some breeders reading this thread may not have experience of those two mainland Europe studbooks and may think Milky Way is a better stalion purely because he is graded in those studbooks.
 
Just for everyones information Milky Way arrives at our stud at the weekend so that we can start on the road to getting him back under saddle and hopefully out competing.
As i havnt his passport at the moment i cant tell you his relevant grading marks but i will try and enlighten you as much as i can when he is here.
And if anyone is interested i will post photos when he is back being ridden.
 
Fair comment, but surely when you are looking at a stallion it is what he can do for your mare, not what stud book he is with? Also if you like him, again not dictated by any stud book. If anyone turned down a good stallion just because he belonged to the wrong stud book, then should they be breeding with such a narrow view. It is difficult to judge from photo's so it is a bit unfair to comment, but I would not use him even if he got 10's, & belonged to every stud book possible. He does not do it for me, & I am not impressed with the photo's of his offspring. I am not saying anyone is not entitled to an opinion of course they are, but I have a horrible feeling it is going to start getting personal as I would not be surprised if one of the posters is known. I only say that as the wording/phrasing is very familiar
 
I may be wrong but Anet I don't think Firm was saying "take that remark back" to you, she was saying that she would take her own remark back if someone with more independent first hand experience didn't agree with her statement.
 
This has nothing to do with the stallion mentioned here, ALBA it is just a general message:

I just recently learned that the Associate Membership of SSH does absolutely NOT make them automatically approvable with other WBFSH Breed Associations like some SSH members told me! And the membership of WBFSH does anyway not make a studbook good or less good nor does it for quality of the horses.

I think breeding is some kind of ART. I just told this to a friend this morning reading how many people call themselves BREEDER and are not even close to that.

I only call a person a BREEDER that is using fully approved stock - means main mare book or minimum studbook mares and approved (or minimum licensed) stallions with a studbook. People that chose carefully the stallion to put to the mare in question by also looking at the faults and to look what the stallion could make better or if the mare is a good match for the stallion in question.

f.e. my stallion Dream Of Gold is producing outstanding foals, but he should not be used on long back mares as he has a long back like most Donnerhall line stallions do and so I am looking at the mares to avoid this happening. I also do not hide this to clients and try to help with chosing the right boy for a mare in question not hiding the PLUS or MINUS that a stallion produces - no horse is perfect after all.

Before anyone now jumps on me because I had used Europees Stamboek for some few stallions some years ago as it was convenient to be able to bring different breeds to the same place, then be informed that I was lied to and naive to believe what I was told. I have left them long ago and the stallions are all approved with other and reliable Associations. I had to do it all once again and to pay a second time so I truly learned the very hard and expensive way.

@Volatis:
every single foal from Milky Way in Germany was registered and branded ZFDP and ALL were PREMIUM awarded by the ZfDP. That demands a minimum score of 7.5 not less!!
Since the ZfDP is now also coming to UK it is very easy to have all of the Milky Way foals go with the ZfDP, if someone does not like ECHA.

 
Thank you so much everyone! So many replies!

I have read them all and will reply properly later (am just about to go to a meeting at work).
 
Come on everybody, lets see this thread for what it really is. It goes like this, you join a forum, spend an hour or so posting nothing much on other peoples threads. And then start a thread about someone else's stallion. You wait for a few other people to post and then get a post put up advertising your own stallion. Dead easy. Free advertising without breaking any forum rules.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top