What does hunting bring to communities?

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Widgeon

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After a conversation at work (we're scientists so everything comes down to the quality of the evidence, even lunchtime chat!) I've been having a think about whether it's possible to quantify the impact of hunting, particularly trail hunting, on rural communities. I.e.
  • what services (if any) do hunts provide that nobody else does (fallen stock?);
  • what businesses operate to support hunting, and if trail hunting were to be banned, how feasibly could they repurpose themselves without a loss of jobs (hirelings etc);
  • how much money do hunts raise to support local charities etc.
I'm particularly thinking about trail hunting because that's what it's being proposed to ban, but of course clean boot and drag hunting will share some characteristics. I'm not interested in the ethics of trail hunting or whether it's being legally conducted (although I have my own views on both of those!), more just whether it's possible to quantify the benefits (mainly the benefits, but also the possible harms) of hunting. And does anyone even record this kind of information?

If anyone has thoughts on this I'd be interested to hear them.
 
Some of the bridleways around me are open and accessible mainly because the landowner is a fan of hunting and supports the local hunt.
So e.g. some gates are left open during winter until livestock go back in the fields, say. There are fewer gates, and you will not find electric fencing across a bridleway, or a slurry pool, or a primitive sheep pen, or gates which are broken/rotted/have three different closure systems/tied shut, and so on.

All those are what we find on some of the other landowners’ routes. It is a noticeable difference. Mind you, some of the other landowners really hate the hunt and that is why they make things inaccessible! So swings and roundabouts perhaps.
 
Widgeon said:
After a conversation at work (we're scientists so everything comes down to the quality of the evidence, even lunchtime chat!) I've been having a think about whether it's possible to quantify the impact of hunting, particularly trail hunting, on rural communities. I.e.
  • what services (if any) do hunts provide that nobody else does (fallen stock?);
  • what businesses operate to support hunting, and if trail hunting were to be banned, how feasibly could they repurpose themselves without a loss of jobs (hirelings etc);
  • how much money do hunts raise to support local charities etc.
I'm particularly thinking about trail hunting because that's what it's being proposed to ban, but of course clean boot and drag hunting will share some characteristics. I'm not interested in the ethics of trail hunting or whether it's being legally conducted (although I have my own views on both of those!), more just whether it's possible to quantify the benefits (mainly the benefits, but also the possible harms) of hunting. And does anyone even record this kind of information?

If anyone has thoughts on this I'd be interested to hear them.
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If you want stats, Countryside Alliance and Masters of FoxHounds Association be a sensible start - fairly crucial to their raison d’etre!
 
Exasperated said:
If you want stats, Countryside Alliance and Masters of FoxHounds Association be a sensible start - fairly crucial to their raison d’etre!
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Thanks, yes I did flag both of those and suggest they took a look - I will have a read myself as like you say, they'd be the first places you would think would gather stats on this kind of thing.
 
If you look at who attends a meet - there is a big cross section of society who have a common interest, and several who certainly get a proportion of their income from those attending or supporting the hunt.


Our local hunt has arranged a whole year's programme of social activities, most involving horses, but not all. Rides, shows, supper, dog walks and supper, clay shoot. Something going on for supporters all year round.
A lot is aimed at fund raising, but it is also a very good chance to make friends and meet people.
 
Orangehorse said:
Our local hunt has arranged a whole year's programme of social activities, most involving horses, but not all. Rides, shows, supper, dog walks and supper, clay shoot. Something going on for supporters all year round.
A lot is aimed at fund raising, but it is also a very good chance to make friends and meet people.
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Thanks, I agree this (IMO) is probably the big one that is very difficult to quantify. All those social activities build links within the community, sometimes across people who might not have met otherwise. That's hugely valuable and very hard to pin down!
 
I would also look at it from the other side and take in to account the disruption caused by the hunt. people being held up on roads, trespass and upset caused to landowners and livestock. Pets killed etc. Not to mention illegal hunting. Sorry but its only fair too look at both sides !
 
planete said:
Bridleways are legally required to be kept open anyway surely? Other benefits deriving from trail hunting such as employment and supporting various trades also arise from clean boot hunting or drag hunting.
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Of course, but in practice most landowners and farmers do not like pedestrians or horse riders crossing their land. If no track is left across a crop field (or a verge around it as alternative route), or the path is overgrown, or blocked, or a gate so broken it is impossible to open, it comes down to people complaining and then enforcement.

Councils are very stretched and enforcement (or indeed maintenance of paths under their remit) seem to be low priority. As you can imagine they would be, with the huge financial pressures of e.g. SEND funding needs and care home fees, to name a couple.

I was hacking the other day and the mere fact that certain gates are just left open - to make it easier for the hunt to pass - all winter, is quite a bonus. So you could say there is a quantifiable benefit in that the local authority does not have to spend money on enforcement.
 
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Orangehorse said:
If you look at who attends a meet - there is a big cross section of society who have a common interest, and several who certainly get a proportion of their income from those attending or supporting the hunt.


Our local hunt has arranged a whole year's programme of social activities, most involving horses, but not all. Rides, shows, supper, dog walks and supper, clay shoot. Something going on for supporters all year round.
A lot is aimed at fund raising, but it is also a very good chance to make friends and meet people.
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For me this is quite a big one.
I’m not particularly a (trail) hunting fan by any stretch and if it’s banned I really don’t care. But living within the core catchment of big hunt country, I cannot deny how they are integrated into so many aspects of community life and it would be a real shame to loose that (and it’s a different level to clean boot). I can put up with the local disruption the hunt inevitably causes as the overall benefit to community far outweighs that IMO. But so incredibly difficult to quantify. However does the good outweigh the deaths of innocent animals for sport …. that is really the crunch question
 
Sandstone1 said:
I would also look at it from the other side and take in to account the disruption caused by the hunt. people being held up on roads, trespass and upset caused to landowners and livestock. Pets killed etc. Not to mention illegal hunting. Sorry but its only fair too look at both sides !
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Oh don't say sorry for that! I have personal experiences of the harms of trail hunting :rolleyes: Unfortunately the harms are even harder to quantify than the benefits, but yes I agree.
 
One of my local packs has raised nearly £4000 over the last two years for 3 local charities through bucket collections and proceeds of fund raising activities.

And for all fans of fun rides, there are nearly 30 in Shropshire- starting next weekend and continuing through to almost the middle of October. Virtually all are run by hunts, barring a couple of charity ones. Again, each one donates a portion of the entry fees to charities.

With no trail hunting, there would be very few fun rides. Landowners and farmers would be much less likely to grant permission and the PL insurance carried by each pack covers activities such as fun rides. It would not be realistic to take out the insurance for a charity fun ride in the same way.
 
spacefaer said:
One of my local packs has raised nearly £4000 over the last two years for 3 local charities through bucket collections and proceeds of fund raising activities.

And for all fans of fun rides, there are nearly 30 in Shropshire- starting next weekend and continuing through to almost the middle of October. Virtually all are run by hunts, barring a couple of charity ones. Again, each one donates a portion of the entry fees to charities.

With no trail hunting, there would be very few fun rides. Landowners and farmers would be much less likely to grant permission and the PL insurance carried by each pack covers activities such as fun rides. It would not be realistic to take out the insurance for a charity fun ride in the same way.
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Fun rides, yes that's a good one. Thanks. I think people don't always appreciate the logistics of running these sort of events - running them under the existing umbrella of the hunt facilitates their existence in a lot of areas.
 
Widgeon said:
Fun rides, yes that's a good one. Thanks. I think people don't always appreciate the logistics of running these sort of events - running them under the existing umbrella of the hunt facilitates their existence in a lot of areas.
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I live in hunting country too. We have plenty of fun rides which are not run by the hunt. Another interesting one is point to points, I think these are usually run by hunts. Ours certainly are round here but interestingly the main ptp which shares it’s name with the local hunt that organises it has dropped the word ‘hunt’ from the ptp event name.

The bottom line for me though is hunting doesn’t provide anything that legal trail hunting couldn’t have provided over the last 20 years or whatever it is since the ban. I know this isn’t a pro or anti debate but they only have themselves to blame, and any negative impacts on rural economies or communities that arise due to a complete and final ban on hunting are entirely their responsibility.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
The best fallen stocksman locally is an independent father/son duo not connected to any hunt.
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We're the same - our local fallen stocksman is brilliant, they are unconnected to the hunt. I prefer them over the vet coming out to PTS and that really is saying something. I wouldn't even think to use our hunt for that.
 
ihatework said:
For me this is quite a big one.
I’m not particularly a (trail) hunting fan by any stretch and if it’s banned I really don’t care. But living within the core catchment of big hunt country, I cannot deny how they are integrated into so many aspects of community life and it would be a real shame to loose that (and it’s a different level to clean boot). I can put up with the local disruption the hunt inevitably causes as the overall benefit to community far outweighs that IMO. But so incredibly difficult to quantify. However does the good outweigh the deaths of innocent animals for sport …. that is really the crunch question
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They do hold a lot of pony club activities locally to me also and are involved with organizing the p2p and various other horsey things.... But I must admit I'm not a fan of the pony club generally 🫠
 
One of the biggest fallen stock collectors in the area
Huge fundraisers for various charities, especially the air ambulance
Organise the point 2 point, fun rides, team chase and a lot of activities for farmers such as clay shoots. Given farming can be quite a lonely profession I don't think that should be under estimated. I know they run other socials too

I've had zero disruption this winter because the land they usually hunt on at least one Saturday was far too wet. The disruption and damage from quad bikes is a big negative to me, but I'm conscious that the rural community has taken a battering in recent years and I would prefer to see regulations tightened instead of further bans.
 
Fun rides, hunter trials, horse shows, team chases, point to points. I do very little with my horse now so it wouldn't really affect me if it all packed up but I used to go to all (except p2p) on a regular basis.
 
I'm loathe to reply as I'm aware of the polarised views around any king of hunting activity but in these parts the social aspect for remote and dispersed communities is a vital and irreplaceable one. Upland farmers do get to have a day out as it were, even if that is having the hunt visiting them. When the hunt is just local rather than actively visiting them still many farmers will at least visit the meet at their neighbour's and follow for a bit. There is food, a gathering and communication with others prior to the day. In winter that can be one of the only external social opportunities farmers get. Hunt suppers, puppy shows, PTPs, fun rides and shows are built into some rural calendars and along with young farmers activities, it's very hard to see anything else that provides that level of regular and organised community association for rural workers.

Many people who deride this really don't appear to understand farming communities in my view.

Hunting practices actively support some of the critically endangered crafts - traditional whip and stick making, specialist tailoring for side saddle activities and side saddle making, boot making, and less endangered crafts including saddle and tack making generally.

In terms of nature and conservation hunting communities have specific knowledge of nature and place that is not replicated by any other group and represents a really important (and widely recognised) knowledge base, whether Hunting activities are approved of or not. Hunting also allows for and has a history of organised (and hopefully legal!) land access in a way that no other kind of association/group does. That is politically important for many people outside hunting too, though that would be a small number.I

Producing hunters and providing employment in the countryside is also a benefit of hunting: exercising, freelance grooming, mucking out etc are supported by hunting, as are farriery and vehicle services to a degree. Specialist kit suppliers which may intersect with other equestrian activities are also supported by hunting in the season when those interestedother sports are quieter.

There is more, of course as hunting is woven into communities and the links are many and long standing. Other posters have covered some of those.
 
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