what else can I do... feeling very low

[princestar]

Denny has decided not to come in, he did it in the week and somehow ended up on the yard, totally nuts, galloping over the yard, almost went through a barbed wire fence. Luckily he is okay, he had a day in yesterday and he was out at 7am today.

He goes out every day. Usually from about 7am-6pm.

There are two ponies in the next field, however they've been out all week and be has come in every night this week whilst they have stayed out and when he goes near the fence they try and kick and scream and try to bite him. However he literally flat out gallops away, turns tight cirles and looks back at me. His ears are forward and I dont chase him. Almost like this is a game.

Today I stood in the field for nearly an hour. He just cantered round, trotted head high and snorting.

I dont get near enough to grab his head collar, let alone get one on him to bring him in.

I took his feed bucket out and finally managed to give him a handful of chaff and a couple of pieces of carrot before he took off again. Food does not attract him.

I have been in tears again, he is still out tonight, in the rain...

What can I do, I'm stuck on what I can do.... anyone have an experience?

 

[Lolo]

To be honest, if he doesn't want to come in I'd leave the feed out with him and essentially call his bluff. I'd turn out with a waterproof rug on so if it's foul he won't be wet and miserable, but if he's not playing I wouldn't engage in the battle...

If he NEEDS to come in, I'd be tempted to pend 5 mins trying, then go off (leaving feed) and come back after everything else is done. Then try again, and then leave if he's still not playing. And repeat until he does let you catch him, and when he does, I;d give him lots of polos and fuss (if he's that way inclined).

 

[Pigeon]

I feel your pain! My best advice is to not take it personally

When I first got mine he was a PIG to catch! He was also hard to get hold of in the stable, and in the field would see someone with a headcollar and just run for it. They were out on 20 acres, you can imagine what fun that was...

I used to take out scoops with carrots and stuff, and often just catch him to give him a feed or a groom, then put him back out, so he stopped equating being caught with work or being stabled all night.

He can still be a bit awkward to catch, but usually only sort of edging away for a few minutes before I can grab him, no galloping these days, thankfully! Obviously all the lush grass coming through won't be helping! Mine's pretty food orientated so that made my life easier as I could bribe him!

There's lots of tricks for catching them though, so other people with less food obsessed horses might have better advice!

 

[princestar]

I have left him rugged tonight, hes out in the rain and its the 1st time hes been out over night for about 4 months. Think the other horses have been brought in so he'll be out alone.

He gets lots of fuss and treats when he comes in and he always goes into the nice clean stable with lots of hay and dinner. I wont leave his food out though as I think if he comes in, he gets a tasty dinner.

The other day he came in for an hour then went back out and came in later perfectly fine. I just dont understand where I seem to be going wrong.

 

[Pigeon]

I would say, if you're able to get hold of him, just give him some carrots then let him go again.

 

[Lulup]

I think you we're right not to leave the feed out - otherwise you are removing his main incentive to come in.

I use the same method for any horse that has been difficult to catch and I have found it successful for me and the horses I have come across - it is very simple but can take some time!

Basically I just follow them - I don't run, I don't call them, I don't offer treats, I just follow them. Every horse has given in, eventually! I would suggest you leave him until you have a good few hours free then go to his field and approach him - just in a normal manner - if he walks away just quietly follow and if he gallops off just keep walking after him. It may take hours the first time but every horse I have dealt with has eventually stood still and given in - at this point give him a treat (that has been hidden in your pocket) and leave him again. You must be consistent every time - dont approach him if you haven't got time to see it through because he will soon learn that if he keeps it up long enough you will give in, and you want him to learn exactly the opposite!

Most horses give up on behaviours that don't result in the desired outcome - stick with this for as long as it takes and you should be able to catch him in a few mins even on a bad day.

Let us know how you get on

 

[princestar]

Feeling terrible - the wind is howling here

My friend went down to try and get him in and he still wouldn't come in.

I'll check on him tomorrow morning and ser if he wants to come in for brekkie then go back out.

Thanks guys, I'll update you tomorrow

 

[maccachic]

He will be fine he can move round if he gets chilly, he has a cover, does he have hay? Personally I would hate the thought of my horse in a stable - confined unable to do anything.

Prob be a happy chappy in the morning.

 

[TarrSteps]

Is it that he HAS to come in or that you're upset he's out in the bad weather?

I agree, you'll have to address the problem - you can't have a horse you can't catch - but as far as his health/safety/enjoyment it would seem he's voting with his feet? If it's safe and possible for him to live out maybe he would prefer it?

 

[luckyoldme]

Mine did the whole snorting , not coming in thing on a really frosty night a few years back.
I had a girly tantrum stamped my feet shouted "*******s to you then" and stomped off in a huff.
He stayed out overnight and I did nt have to muck out in the morning.
He now lives out 24/7 and thrives on it.

 

[princestar]

Thrres no field livery option at my yard, so eventually he will have to come in. In the summer theyre aloud to stay out more.

Im most upset that he feels he cant come to me, but I know he is just playing up. No, no hay or food just a grass field. If hes hungry I will bring him in for dinner and praise.

He is out alone, with other horses in the next fields. However I have been offered a mini Shetland as a companion, do you think that will help or will it mask the issue/causr more problems. I have the funds to keep a companion but dont want to end up with a horse that wont hack or do anything without his friend.....

 

[FfionWinnie]

I don't see why a companion would help in this situation, especially as Shetlands can be sods to catch when the mood takes them. Better to invest the money in getting someone to come out and help you work with him over the catching issue. I'm not sure why you are so worried about him being out on his own, its his choice after all!

 

[TarrSteps]

I think the problem is the OP is not allowed to leave him out.

No to a companion. Another working horse, maybe, but not a pony that's always just there.

I hate to say it but he won't get hungry in a field of grass, at least not until about November. . .

 

[Twiglet]

Don't take it personally....he's being a horse! Is there any way you can consider moving to somewhere offering grass livery? Chances are if he's offered the option to stay out, and just comes in for feed and fuss, knowing that he'll get to go back out, he'll be easier to manage.
I find non-catchers second only to non-loaders in terms of frustrating animals!

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

Have you tried doing join up with him? it might help.

Is he actually scared or more of an 'i dont want to and you can't make me'?

if he's scared or whatever then it'll probably be a case of strengthening your bond/trust or is it something in his stable that perhaps he doesn't like? Is there anyway for you to make his stable more 'appealing' for him?

If he's just being a pig, don't give in. As has been said spend a few hours of your day trying to catch him. If he runs away, move him on and keep doing it until he gives in. How big is the field he's out in now? Could you not leccy tape it smaller just while he gets over all this and learns that he has to come in when asked?

 

[ajf]

If your yard will let you I would call his bluff as others have said.

If he won't come in leave him. Finish the stable/yard. Try again, if he says no leave him!

I know someone (I think this was VERY harsh of her!) whoose young 4yo Stallion (was going to be the next big thing, but yes, is now gelded ) had been in over night with lots of rugs and out by day rugged, then started going out by nights, still rugged up and then wouldn't be caught in the morning (he wasn't in work at the time - was out by night as he would walk the hedges during the day as horses often go along the road, 2 fields away!). She then chucked him out without any rugs on, so he'd be cold in the morning and want to come in! It worked as it was last summer when it pi**ed it down but poor chap!

 

[Hp87]

I feel your pain! My mare can be a nightmare to catch especially at this time of year! What works really well with her is when If you get a spare half hour and feel patient (everyone knows how annoying it is not to be able to catch your horse!!) go into his field and basically follow him round, spend most your time behind him at a safe distance, if he looks at you take abit of pressure off and turn away from him but don't leave, if he turns to face you take take all the pressure off and walk away. Then repeat if he doesn't follow. He should eventually get interested in what you want. Main thing is to keep things really calm and relaxed so there's no galloping about which is easier said than done sometimes. Obviously you need to get him in at some point so if you can leave a head collar on him with a short bit of rope that would help and catch him in the same way as above. Well worth a try

 

[Oscar]

The secret is the horse must 'catch you!'. Go out to the field and a few feet away from the horse, do something interesting that will make your horse investigate. My friend was once out in the field with a few fellow liveries for over an hour trying to catch her horse, it was a 10 acre field with other horses out too, he just ran rings round them! They asked me to try so I went out, had a couple of carrots, went 'near' the horse but not too close to make him run, then I sat down and broke off a piece of carrot and ate it. Horse was like 'oi that's mine' then I broke another piece and moved so my back was to the horse (he wasn't a dangerous horse btw so I felt safe doing this), and was studying my piece of carrot when I felt a warm breath on my neck, I ate the carrot! Slowly crouched and broke off another piece of carrot, horse was by this point trying to mug me so I managed to slipmamropemover his neck while I gave him the reward for catching me.

You will never outrun a horse, so don't waste your energy, you have to outsmart him. Even a rustly bit of paper, or old polo packet will normally make a horse go hmmm is that a tasty treat?

 

[Lynds]

empty crisp packets work a treat for getting my horses interest piqued!

 

[MyBoyChe]

Dont know if either of these ideas is practical for you but both have worked for me in the past
Try and corral him in to a corner using leccy tape, you have to be ready to drop it if he looks like panicking and dont wrap it round your hand whatever you do. Or, chase him round his paddock, not like a mad woman but just keep after him, dont let him stop to eat or rest, eventually he will get fed up and come to you. Both require time and doubt they will cure him straight away but might break the habit, especially if you go in to his paddock prepared to do either/or each time and dont even try to catch him in the conventional way.

 

[princestar]

Hi thank you for all the replies - I had my trainer out and she says a separation issue is most likely however he can try and get away with it when no horses are out.

I havent done join up, i dont think haha, was recommended to allow him to come to me and if he wanted to run, I was to send him away, then allow him to come over. Now found that I can walk backwards across the field chatting to my friend from the side of the field who tells me to slow or wait and let him think, then can praise and slip a head collar on (he usually manages to take his off, leaving the buckles done up) then I praise him immensely.

Someone suggested a companion for him, as he fields on his own, but he has contact with horses on both sides of the field - not the same as being together but still he isnt out alone everyday. I can afford to keep another and have the time, but I am happy with my one horse as I do like to lavish all my attention on him haha. Was an option for me, however I don't believe it would work really.

Thanks everyone, hopefully he will carry on getting better and happier to come in. But some days I put him out and bring him him in a few times for a little treat and pat then back out so he doesn't think its going to mean stable all night or work.

Ill have a look at join up and some methods suggested and see how we go was feeling very frustrated and sad but now just understand that its a quirk I need to work with my horse on x

 

[marieethewonderhorse]

Does he like the stable? I know some horses like/like/hate the stable. What would you consider your horse thinks of the stable? My mare does not like the stable but she doesn't hate it. Max she can take three nights in the stable and she is a lunatic to get back out to the field. She is out 24/7 I bring her in, work her feed her bring her back out.She is groomed, fed, brushed in the stable and has come to enjoy it it,i am in a very big yard so I could keep her in everynight if I wanted.Thank god because when we first got her, she jumped stable door(very high doors, with anti weave bars, in a shed) twice, thank god no injuries we think this is due to bad experience with breeder of her when she was younger. If she is in the stable for more then the three days when she is let out the next day she lets my know she is unhappy to come in, she might run away but after two minutes tires of this and lets me catch her. Anyway I have found little things she loves, treats messages to make he change her view of the stable. Does he have to come in every night, or would you let him stay out the mild enough nights so he enjoys being in the stable more. Or are you giving him too much feed and not enough work. Even after a whole day outside he still runs away, excess energy can make them cheeky, could you lunge him before you put him out or feed him smaller amounts or work him more? I lunge my mare every time I ride her, it relaxes her and gets rid of extra energy. What type of horse is he? Also fresh grass would be higher sugar and energy so thay may also contribute to the boldness.

 

[MagicMelon]

Google "join up" on You Tube. Its the only natural horsemanship thing I've ever learnt and it works so well, especially for non-catchers. The last pony I had started to mess about being caught so I went straight into join up with him sending him off, after a while they figure its easier to be with you Only have to do it a couple of times if that and they're usually fine after that.

 

[kim75]

If he is in his own bit , I have this problem with mine tape off a smaller bit so less space to run and if need be just take it in smaller use tall posts so no jumping . Don't join in the game

 

[rachyblue]

I'd go for Lulup's idea and have always found it successful eventually. Once they realise you will out stubborn them the time to catching normally gets much shorter.

 

[princestar]

Hi, the last few days he has been *touches wood* been a good boy - he tries it on, runs a circle so I send him away, then face away, he walks over and I can usually walk back towards him to slip the head collar on and then praise madly haha. Its so frustrating and annoying when he does it, usually when he knows I need to be quick and am in a rush. Yeah he does like his stable, he has a large space with plenty of hay, feed, bedding etc.
Just time and patience I think... however I will keep using the techniques suggested - so thank u all! X

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm sure many people will take issue with this (and I might have too, when I was much younger more inclined to put pride over success) but I would add a very specific "high value" treat to your routine, in a small box that you only use for this purpose. Keep the box at the yard and take it out with you every time, go through the routine you have established and then give him the treat. Make it a routine now, while he is doing well, rather than using it when you're having a difficult day - you are looking to train him to the box/treat not tempt him with the food. When he's reacting consistently you can go to "intermittent reward" and not treat every time.

I know there is a real aversion to "bribing" horses and I agree, it's a bad way of eliciting a specific behaviour, partly because horses don't "work for food" in the way that carnivores will. But in order to train a horse you have to be near enough! Chasing/join up does work with many horses but it's tricky and disruptive in a herd so better to install a "fail safe" while you can that you can use in any situation.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

Google "join up" on You Tube. Its the only natural horsemanship thing I've ever learnt and it works so well, especially for non-catchers. The last pony I had started to mess about being caught so I went straight into join up with him sending him off, after a while they figure its easier to be with you Only have to do it a couple of times if that and they're usually fine after that.

I'm with MM on this one. I have done this too, and it's a great psychological breakthrough for the horse, they realise you are the leader, and they realise they can't escape you, maybe if you try join up he will have a bit of an epiphany?

Other than that I would suggest also spending time in his field not doing things with him eg clean out the trough, go poo picking, pull up some weeds etc that way he doesn't always think you are going in to get him