What happens if horse on loan gets sold?

Omarkiam

Omarkiam

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I have a friend who has loan her horse out on full loan, she downloaded the basic loan agreement from BHS, has witnesses, but then the person who is loaning him is apparently trying to sell him and has even placed an ad on the web advertising him! Just wondered where she stands regarding this? What happens if the horse is sold? Does she stand any chance with the law? Or will they say, own fault?
 
Have you found the so called ad? Personally if this was me, and I had the ad, then I'd be taking the horse back from loanee as that was in no way part of the agreement.
 
She has tried to find the ad, a friend told her about it, but also has been told by word of mouth from others about the potential selling. She has been to visit the girl as soon as she heard but all seemed legit and the horse was happy, so didnt want to remove from the situation without any proof, she is awaiting a reply from the girl who found the ad of the horse for sale, so she can take a look and use it as proof. If in the meantime she manages to sell him for whatever reason, what happens?
Its a difficult one she says as you can never trust people these days with what they say so shes unsure whether storming down there and removing the horse is the right thing to do?

I said it was as a ''friend'' wouldnt lie. But people can get easily mixed up. Wondering whether sometimes chinese whispers gets hold and things get totally mixed up!
 
Has she tried Googling the loaner's telephone numbers and email address - that should locate the ad if it is on the web somewhere.
 
I would try PM'ing MHOL (missing horses on loan) or Cuffey (Horsewatch person I think) on here, they seem to be pretty clued up on this type of thing.
 
Has she associated herself with the horse on Nedonline and left a note--on loan not to be sold

Totally agree with googling loanees phone numbers and move the spacing ie all nos no space then 5 space and other 6 etc
adverts are often Cached for some time after they are removed and can still be read
 
It would be illegal for the loaner to sell the pony. Your friend would have the right to take the pony back from whoever had bought it. The reality of the situation, is that your friend might lose track of the pony and it could be lost forever.

I nearly bought a horse that turned out to be on loan. It was an ex racehorse and the seller seemed very genuine. I did some research into the horse and decided I would call the trainer to see if I could find out some background on it. It then transpired she only had it on loan, so the trainer got back to the girl and sorted it out.

Sadly it happens a lot. I think your friend should be very careful.
 
BigRed said:
It would be illegal for the loaner to sell the pony. Your friend would have the right to take the pony back from whoever had bought it. The reality of the situation, is that your friend might lose track of the pony and it could be lost forever.

I nearly bought a horse that turned out to be on loan. It was an ex racehorse and the seller seemed very genuine. I did some research into the horse and decided I would call the trainer to see if I could find out some background on it. It then transpired she only had it on loan, so the trainer got back to the girl and sorted it out.

Sadly it happens a lot. I think your friend should be very careful.
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I have passed all your messages on to everyone who has replied.

I understand its illegal and so does she but she doesnt know what the reality of it is as far as the law goes. I think she is worried the law would not be on her side.

She says she has the address of the girl who has the horse on loan, her home address, so I guess she cant go far? She has checked it too as has been there before
 
I hope that the horse is freezemarked so that in the event of it disappearing it can be identified. A number of horses disappear each year while on loan each year (however genuine the person loaning the horse appears to be).
 
I would make it absolutely clear to the loanee that the horse is not to be sold under any circumstances - in writing - I would tell them that the police would be called as this is theft.

I would also make sure that the horse is microchipped and freezemarked asap.

Not really a lot else you can do - however, I would also make sure that the other person is not just ***** stirring.... You could end up ruining a good loan arrangement for nothing...
 
Omarkiam said:
I understand its illegal and so does she but she doesnt know what the reality of it is as far as the law goes. I think she is worried the law would not be on her side.
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The law is definitely on your friends side should the person loaning the horse sell it. If she does your friend is within her rights to take back her horse from who ever thinks they own it. I will be another matter entirely if the loan person sells the horse and does not tell the owner where it has gone. The owner would have to find the horse. Owlie is right, make sure the horse is freezemarked. If not suggest to your friend to get it done immediately.
 
If horse sold while on loan --it goes to litigation, court .Its difficult, it could be chineese whispers maybe the girl has been trying to find out its worth to value to offer to buy ?I would just ask outright -it could be someone who maybe dosnt like the loanee/would love the horse?
 
i probably wouldn't approach the loanee if it all seems ok- at this stage its just hearsay after all and seems a shame to ruin a loan which is working... but i would be doing my utmost to find the ad if it exists. or you could be sneaky and get someone else to ring the loanee and say "i've seen your ad for a horse for sale" and see what she says ;)
 
One sold police need to be informed and they will 'start enquiries' realistically your going to have to find it yourself. Then inform police with proof it is the horse (freezemark, microchip or passport ) they ahould then inform the new owner and accompany you to go and collect it.
The 'new owner' gets nothing but I believe can pursue the person who sold it to them. The bigger problem is tack which is usually spirited away so a bummer if you have made to measure tack. Ensure you keep a log of everything as police aren't always horsey and won't see the signifigance of some things.
Also passports disappear regullarly but duplicates can be ordered.
Basically ALOT easier to avoid it in the first place.
 
I would personally go and speak to the person in question and see what they say and if it is true i.e. you find the advert and is same horse in question then go and get the horse back.
 
Presumably the loan agreement clearly states that there is a loan between the owner and the person loaning it, and that it cannot be removed from the agreed home without consulting the owner and with their agreement (that is what was on a loan agreement I had, both as someone loaning one out and having one here on loan).

If the person sells something that they do not own then the person buying has no legal title to it and the original owner would be entitled to take it back with no payment. This is what happens if you buy a stolen car. However, a horse is more difficult than a car as there is little paperwork to identify it.

Hope it all works out OK. Why would the girl be selling it? Unless she somehow thinks that she was given the horse in some way.
 
i would contact the loaner and say there are rumours that the horse as been advertised for sale and is there anything she would like to talk about? that way you are fronting the situation head on and making it clear you know! I would also speak to a solicitor. But if she does sell the horse yes it would be classed as theft but the horse could end up anywhere in teh country and once it as gone it could be very difficult to get back and it will most certainly be a very lengthy, costly court battle. If it was my horse i wouldnt leave it until it was too late!

if she is on a livery yard i would maybe speak to the livery yard owner and make it clear that the horse is only on loan and not to be sold, if they hear of anything you would like them to call you otherwise they would be an accessory! I would always have a witness with you never do anything on your own! and anythhing you say to the loanee back it up with a letter, just something like... following on from our meeting today at xxx yard when i visited my horse we discussed the following... and the loan agreement is still permitted on the original grounds, the horse is not to be sold etc etc. both parties to sign and keep a copy! its all red tape i am afraid.

very best of luck - hope it works out
 
Put it this way, I'd take a sickie tomorrow to get this sorted. Go to the yard where the horse is and tell the YO what is going on, just say it's probably nothing but you'd like them to know that the horse is not to be moved from that yard and leave a contact number. Go and see the loaner and speak to them, maybe go to the yard when you know they will be there. Just don't sit around for a few days then come on here with a "horse has been sold while on loan thread" because it is not easy to get them back.
If in doubt, get horse home straight away.
 
Your friend needs to make sure she's seen as the owner in every possible way. Her horse should be registered in her name and her details should be in the passport. It should also be chipped and the chip registered to her. These two simple things could mean that if the horse was sold, the new owner may well contact her before she even knew the horse had been sold. It would also put her in a stronger position in the eyes of the Law.

Apart from that, I would stay in contact with the horse by occasional visits, the odd text or email, just so the keeper knows she diesn't own the horse!
 
There was a thread a couple of years ago on NR where the same thing happened. The loaner had the horse for about 4 years before it was sold and the police basically stated that, by law, as the loaner had provided all care, paid all veterinary bill, insurance etc, the owner had 'abandoned' the horse so the loaner could do what they want. It is very important to keep at least one thing that you pay for (preferably insurance) so this cannot be claimed.

Another thing worth noting is that if the loaner insured the horse and then claims LOU, they get the payout and you get a broken horse to care for.

Loaning should be done very, very carefully and it is important always to insure the horse yourself.
 
I just hope the pony is microchipped because if the pony is sold and not chipped,you will have a job to prove ownership,as the new owner could microchip it\ in their name. As you know passports are not proof.
 
sharon1959 said:
I just hope the pony is microchipped because if the pony is sold and not chipped,you will have a job to prove ownership,as the new owner could microchip it\ in their name. As you know passports are not proof.
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Chips can be removed... It happens all the time. The only sure fire way of identification is freeze marking or tatooing the top lip - but even these can be changed (just not as easy)
 
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