What have I gotten myself into :/

CastlelackSportHorses

CastlelackSportHorses

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So as you all know I bought myself a new 3 yr old last week.
When I went to view she seemed very sweet and pleasant.
Owner had her lunging in roller/side reins/bridle etc.

The day I viewed her I did find that when i went to give her muzzle a scratch she squealed and reacted to it, I thought nothing of it.
Maybe my own girls are just so used to being touched all over some horses aren't.

Anyway a week on(and I know its very early days and she is probably still processing being in a new home for the first time and trying to understand me) she is borderline dangerous.
I noticed on day one that you can only touch her for a set amount of time, and set places. If you go above or beyond that she will squeal and strike in front.
I thought I was getting somewhere 2 days ago and managed to pet all over her face/ears without a reaction.
Yesterday I went to pet her around the head and she struck out and caught me.

I have never had a horse like this, the more you press to touch the more aggressive she will get.

I don't know whether to just leave her alone for a few weeks to settle, or to preserve and maybe bring a brush on a stick to get her used to the idea of being touched(from a safe distance.)

Any ideas?
 
I'm assuming you didn't have her vetted? If she was mine I'd let her get on with settling in without any pressure and organise a vet check. Is returning her an option, if you don't feel able to cope with her? The mares I've owned wouldn't have struck out (they were too polite), but they certainly wouldn't have been happy about being touched all over, especially by somebody they didn't trust. Just be aware, you really can't make a mare think what you want them to. She's either got a physical issue going on, or she'll decide in her own good time that you can be trusted.
 
Oops…so many possibilities….maybe she just needs to get to know you and relax. Maybe she s been twitched and her nose was sore..perhaps she just needs firm, gentle handling..no tickly brushes just firm hand strokes. Personally I wouldn’t leave her alone as such but continue “workmanlike” handling, keeping a distance from front feet strike outs. Actually I’ve just recalled our youngster used her front feet in the first few weeks of ownership but it stopped fairly quickly. Maybe it’s a keep your distance/I m not sure about that action.
 
That does seem to be a bit extreme - could she be in season/going off?
One of mine (a gelding) squealed and kicked out at me on his first day - he was an absolute saint so it was just "it's all a bit strange".

What does the old owner say?
 
She’s been warning you that she doesn’t want to be fussed yet you’ve persevered and she’s now ramped up her reaction. You’ve only had her a few days so she will be feeling very unsettled still.

That’s mares for you. Give her time and take it at her pace, or else accept that your personality is not suited to her and send her back or find another home for her.
 
I had a mare who was perfectly civil and co operative in any sort of 'work' situation ie good to groom, ride, shoe, clip and so on
But she absolutely would not tolerate being fussed over - I like to cuddle my horses and she had to bite me before I got the message!
Once I understood where she was coming from things went back to being easy
 
I usually leave any horse for two weeks to settle, without expecting anything much in terms of work. Is she alright with leading and having a headcollar on? If so, I’d suggest some work on reinforcing good leading behaviours, because this is less touchy-feely and helps her build trust with you by doing something nice and low-pressure.

I like to think about it from a horse perspective. We can’t tell them that it’s safe and that they’ll be looked after. It’s like someone you don’t know taking you somewhere unfamiliar, where everyone speaks a different language. You have no idea what is going to happen, you have no clue what is currently going on, and what these weirdos are asking. It’s probably a bit like being kidnapped for them.

Has she ever been moved before? For a youngster with limited experience of new places, it’s likely to amplify the above because they’ve never had to settle somewhere new and they really don’t know if it ever becomes ‘safe’.
 
HaplessHorse said:
I usually leave any horse for two weeks to settle, without expecting anything much in terms of work. Is she alright with leading and having a headcollar on? If so, I’d suggest some work on reinforcing good leading behaviours, because this is less touchy-feely and helps her build trust with you by doing something nice and low-pressure.

I like to think about it from a horse perspective. We can’t tell them that it’s safe and that they’ll be looked after. It’s like someone you don’t know taking you somewhere unfamiliar, where everyone speaks a different language. You have no idea what is going to happen, you have no clue what is currently going on, and what these weirdos are asking. It’s probably a bit like being kidnapped for them.

Has she ever been moved before? For a youngster with limited experience of new places, it’s likely to amplify the above because they’ve never had to settle somewhere new and they really don’t know if it ever becomes ‘safe’.
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I agree, and I do accept she has never been out before, so this is her first home since a foal.
I can get the headcollar on and lead her and she will eat her grub from the bucket if I hold it and I can pet directly between eyes and she seems content with this but no more.
 
meleeka said:
I'm assuming you didn't have her vetted? If she was mine I'd let her get on with settling in without any pressure and organise a vet check. Is returning her an option, if you don't feel able to cope with her? The mares I've owned wouldn't have struck out (they were too polite), but they certainly wouldn't have been happy about being touched all over, especially by somebody they didn't trust. Just be aware, you really can't make a mare think what you want them to. She's either got a physical issue going on, or she'll decide in her own good time that you can be trusted.
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No I didn't vet her(She wasnt expensive)
 
Archangel said:
That does seem to be a bit extreme - could she be in season/going off?
One of mine (a gelding) squealed and kicked out at me on his first day - he was an absolute saint so it was just "it's all a bit strange".

What does the old owner say?
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Old owners didnt say much but I wonder when they say she was well handled did they mean just to headcollar and lead etc
Maybe not fussed over and groomed etc!
 
cauda equina said:
I had a mare who was perfectly civil and co operative in any sort of 'work' situation ie good to groom, ride, shoe, clip and so on
But she absolutely would not tolerate being fussed over - I like to cuddle my horses and she had to bite me before I got the message!
Once I understood where she was coming from things went back to being easy
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My daughter had a share in a mare like this, would stand happily for grooming and even bathing, but try and fuss and cuddle for more than 5 seconds and she'd have you!
I guess some don't like it, whilst others seem to crave human touch, the gelding I ride is usually pretty indifferent to my attention, but will occasionally surprise me by very getting very affectionate and cuddly.
 
I think the best thing to do is listen to what she is telling you. She doesn't like it. Respecting that boundary and letting her come to you will do more to build trust than anything else!

Don't panic! She just doesn't have a clue what's happening! She doesn't know you, you're not a friend yet, she can't get to know you with body language, shared space and horse-communication like she can with another horse so you are going to have to muddle through inter-species communication together! I'm not an expert in horse-comms but have picked up a few basics from rescue/ briefly working with ferals so avoid direct eye contact, don't approach from face on aim for 45 degrees to their body so they can see you best, watch ears and eyes for tension etc and stop or back off if she tells you she isn't comfortable, you can offer a closed fist for a sniff which is polite, like you would for a strange dog. You can hang out in the field and scroll on your phone and be safe and predictable, let her see you interact with your other two so she can learn from that. This doesn't have to happen for basic handling as she knows how to be caught and led etc so knows what to expect in that situation but if you just want to hang out with her and "bond" you may just have to wait to be invited in. This may all change in the space of a week but the slower you take it now the faster it will improve.
 
smolmaus said:
I think the best thing to do is listen to what she is telling you. She doesn't like it. Respecting that boundary and letting her come to you will do more to build trust than anything else!

Don't panic! She just doesn't have a clue what's happening! She doesn't know you, you're not a friend yet, she can't get to know you with body language, shared space and horse-communication like she can with another horse so you are going to have to muddle through inter-species communication together! I'm not an expert in horse-comms but have picked up a few basics from rescue/ briefly working with ferals so avoid direct eye contact, don't approach from face on aim for 45 degrees to their body so they can see you best, watch ears and eyes for tension etc and stop or back off if she tells you she isn't comfortable, you can offer a closed fist for a sniff which is polite, like you would for a strange dog. You can hang out in the field and scroll on your phone and be safe and predictable, let her see you interact with your other two so she can learn from that. This doesn't have to happen for basic handling as she knows how to be caught and led etc so knows what to expect in that situation but if you just want to hang out with her and "bond" you may just have to wait to be invited in. This may all change in the space of a week but the slower you take it now the faster it will improve.
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Yea I think your dead right! Its literally been 5 days and she has no idea who I am :(
 
What is she like with the other horses - do they get a similar reaction if they try and groom her/give her a scratch etc?

I only really have experiences with geldings, but my two boys are very different :

Baggs my 20 year old will only tolerate affection on his terms and will happily tell you to bog off by giving you a side eye look, and then escalating to a nip/turning his butt to you if you didn't get the message the first time around. Over the years he has mellowed very slightly and will tolerate a scratch between the eyes, or an ear scratch, but again this has to be on his terms x If he gets over cuddly or affectionate, I instantly call the vet as it's not normal behaviour for him and it's his way of letting me know something isn't quite right. He also only really tolerates being patted gently on his neck or the top of his bottom, and only tolerates being scratched on his face. If I try and give him a scratch on his bum - again I'm in trouble x

Rabbit my 2 year old however is the complete opposite and craves affection in any form. He'll follow you around for scratches, kisses and cuddles and I sometimes have to tell him that enough is enough as he can occasionally get bargy with it. But he can be stroked all over and not so much as an ounce of protest from him x


Also your girly has only been with you for less than a week, so her entire world has been turned upside down x Personally if it were me, I'd find a good book series or if reading isn't your thing something else that you like to do to relax, grab a picnic basket and blanket, and simply sit in her field chilling out. Horses are mega curious so she'll eventually wander her way over to you and check you out. It also means that she'll be instigating the interaction, rather than yourself which again will help to build your bond. Once she's happily hanging out in your vicinity, I'd say then that would be the time to try giving her a scratch or cuddle in a neutral zone like the withers and going from there. Watch for signs of her getting tense/anxious and back off if these show x
 
CastlelackSportHorses said:
I tried even scratching her wither/neck where her friends would groom and got the same reaction, white side eye, squeal and strike :(
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Unfortunately, she doesn't yet see you as her friend. Wither grooming can be quite an intimate, trust based activity, especially for mares. They can also be be very specific in the pressure/place/technique they like. My daughters' RoR has taken literally years to allow my geldings to groom her, and even now they risk a squeal /strike if they get it wrong.

ETA any change can throw a mares hormanes out of whack too, especially one effctively in late puberty.
 
smolmaus said:
I think the best thing to do is listen to what she is telling you. She doesn't like it. Respecting that boundary and letting her come to you will do more to build trust than anything else!

Don't panic! She just doesn't have a clue what's happening! She doesn't know you, you're not a friend yet, she can't get to know you with body language, shared space and horse-communication like she can with another horse so you are going to have to muddle through inter-species communication together! I'm not an expert in horse-comms but have picked up a few basics from rescue/ briefly working with ferals so avoid direct eye contact, don't approach from face on aim for 45 degrees to their body so they can see you best, watch ears and eyes for tension etc and stop or back off if she tells you she isn't comfortable, you can offer a closed fist for a sniff which is polite, like you would for a strange dog. You can hang out in the field and scroll on your phone and be safe and predictable, let her see you interact with your other two so she can learn from that. This doesn't have to happen for basic handling as she knows how to be caught and led etc so knows what to expect in that situation but if you just want to hang out with her and "bond" you may just have to wait to be invited in. This may all change in the space of a week but the slower you take it now the faster it will improve.
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Completely agree with this. Mares are a whole other world! I have always had geldings until 6 weeks ago when I got my 4 year old mare. She is on the same yard she has been for 2 years, was backed and ridden away, very well handled and safe but my god, everything is on her terms! Only now at week 6 are we starting to bond. She absolutely loves my son who is 7 but I am a completely different story. We do lots of hanging out, in hand walks, in hand 'fun' type sessions etc. They take time to bond and even more so with a very young horse who has moved for the first time.

Do you have a menage? I often take pony in there, let her loose then just mooch about, checking the fence, tidying up poles etc. They soon get nosey and want to come and see what's going on.
 
My homebred went through a stage of being similar to this but not as bad. I noticed it stared when i changed het feed to Alfalfa, too her straight off it and she went back to being her sweet self!
 
CastlelackSportHorses said:
I tried even scratching her wither/neck where her friends would groom and got the same reaction, white side eye, squeal and strike :(
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Horses don't just walk up to another horse and start touching them, scratching their muzzle, never ever pet directly between the eyes etc. Mutual grooming is exactly that. It's by by mutual consent. I'd suggest, as others have, backing off for now and when you resume touching her again find an acceptable area however small and stick with that for a bit. Gradually expand the area while being acutely aware of any white side eye, squeal and strike and go back asap to the acceptable area. This may be a horse who never really will want the same that you do. Nowadays I very rarely stroke my horse but my hand still starts to move out to do so! However he can be touched anywhere if needed and I appreciate that yours will ultimately need to be handled all over but there will be most times when they don't and it's a different pleasure which is just as enjoyable just being with another being without imposing yourself on them.

What is her behaviour when her friends groom her?
 
Cragrat said:
Unfortunately, she doesn't yet see you as her friend. Wither grooming can be quite an intimate, trust based activity, especially for mares. They can also be be very specific in the pressure/place/technique they like. My daughters' RoR has taken literally years to allow my geldings to groom her, and even now they risk a squeal /strike if they get it wrong.

ETA any change can throw a mares hormanes out of whack too, especially one effctively in late puberty.
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Mine is the same with grooming. She'll groom with the youngster now but if he gets it wrong or she decides she's finished, she'll tell him off with a similar reaction!

Try and think of it in horse logic. She doesn't know who you are and a lot tend to squeal at each other even when sniffing and their noses touch. It's all sensitive and dramatic seeming as they're unsure of another being touching them. It sounds like she's reacting how she would with a new horse. I'd give it time and build the trust then you can look at building on the horse-human boundaries.
 
My big horse doesn’t like being touched on her body. It doesn’t matter what pressure you try to use or the speed you move and she doesn’t like being brushed either. She’s pretty wary of her neck being touched but she was totally fine getting injections by the vet in it.

She does love a forehead scratch and when she decides she wants scratches she’s more than happy for me to touch wherever she wants it scratched often backing into me for bum scratches.
She’s very sweet and likes a fuss, until she doesn’t. 😂
It’s been very much going at her pace and letting her choose the interactions.

My other mare is the complete opposite and you can do anything with her.
 
It's taken 2 years for my mare to decide human scratches are great now I can't get rid of her! When she first came she was not keen on excessive grooming or fuss, she didn't like being messed with in the stable so I just didn't. She's quite sensitive to brushes etc. This is the first year I've noticed her mutual grooming in the field as well.

I'm probably wrong but my experience of mares the squeal and strike out with the front foot tends to be a seasonal/boys to close reaction 🤔
 
My big mare will strike with a fore leg. I've had her 10 years now and I can't think of the last time she did it but when she was younger it was on the list of reasons she stayed barefoot.

She's still VERY particular about who touches her when & where. Fabulous teacher when I was doing my bodywork training because she had zero patience with me getting it wrong.

When she was younger I didn't fuss her. We just cracked on with doing normal handling stuff.

Time is probably all you need.
 
I always expect a horse to go backwards (significantly) in its handling on change of owner until 6+ months after backing.

She doesn't know you. In horse terms, walking up to her and wanting to touch her if you aren't her friend is rude, and she's telling you that. I clicker train to get round this little sticky patch but there are other ways to do it. Consistent interaction, trust building, appropriate (to her temperament) responses to undesirable behaviour will all build the relationship you need moving forwards.
 
Arzada said:
Horses don't just walk up to another horse and start touching them, scratching their muzzle, never ever pet directly between the eyes etc. Mutual grooming is exactly that. It's by by mutual consent. I'd suggest, as others have, backing off for now and when you resume touching her again find an acceptable area however small and stick with that for a bit. Gradually expand the area while being acutely aware of any white side eye, squeal and strike and go back asap to the acceptable area. This may be a horse who never really will want the same that you do. Nowadays I very rarely stroke my horse but my hand still starts to move out to do so! However he can be touched anywhere if needed and I appreciate that yours will ultimately need to be handled all over but there will be most times when they don't and it's a different pleasure which is just as enjoyable just being with another being without imposing yourself on them.

What is her behaviour when her friends groom her?
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I haven't seen the other horses initiate grooming yet!
 
My mare was perfect for her old owner, and moved to mine then auditioned for she-devil role! Her last home had been her only one, so the newness caused high stress, and I was aware of it, so just did basics with routine feed daily stuff, leading, not getting too hands on. Letting her get used to my voice and energy.
She did have manners as I knew her history so that was known to me, so I aware she knew basic groundwork and grooming etc. but I just gave her 2-3 months of getting used to her new home and not getting too involved with her. Just spent a lot of time around her in the yard doing chores initially.

It’s lovely when the switch flicks in their mind that you’re an ok person though. She’s very sweet and amenable. She doesn’t trust easily. Doesn’t approach strangers….they get a distant side-eye. My gelding is the opposite - greets everyone, forever curious and brave approaching new and strange things.
 
as i’ve said before in numerous threads, when i first bought diva she was a menace and would body slam me into walls just for trying to groom her, didn’t like being messed with etc - she’d never been “loved on” or lived on any other yard, so massive change to be stuck with a girl in her 20’s who wanted to snog her nose off😂 she’s a snuggle bug now! voluntarily shoves her face into mine for a kiss and pesters me when i’m mucking out for attention.

i’d try not to worry, respect what she’s telling you and give her time - is she in or out? is she the same in the field vs in the stable? quite possibly she’s also come from a family that wasn’t kissy and cuddly, and she’s now wondering why this stranger is all up in her business!

if you hand feed, and she’s not the type to get rude about it, i’d just start by giving her a carrot or something and stroking or scratching her for half a second whilst she takes it. i dare say at the very least she’ll appreciate a good itch once she realises what’s going on!

some of them just aren’t interested in being fussed over, lily will let me hang off her neck cuddling her but if i want a kiss i have to actually hold her head still to plant one on🤣 she’d much rather have her bum scratched haha
 
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