What is a fair shared loan price?

[MLCHorse]

Hi, I’m currently loaning a 20yr old ex riding school horse at a yard that has good facilities, he’s on part diy (as in diy on weekends). The owner is wanting to change our current agreement which is to pay 1/2 livery and 1/2 farrier/dental/bedding etc (approx £220pm) to £25 per day that I use him. I’m currently riding him 3 times week - so effectively it will go up to £300pm. Is that a fair price? I know this can vary greatly according to location etc - but any thoughts you have would help. Thanks ?

 

[abbijay]

In this one a fair price is simply what you are prepared to pay.
There may be cheaper options out there and there will be people who can keep a horse on DIY for less than that. Equally a good horse in an arrangement that suits you is money well spent.
Does sound like quite a steep increase (don't forget most months are longer than 28d so you will probably be looking at £325pm) so I would be tempted to counter offer £20 per day or say I'd have to drop down to 2 days per week. Depends why the owner has a sharer, if time is their issue they won't want you to reduce your days but if it's money they need you might be in a tough position. It might be that with increasing bills they genuinely can't afford to keep the horse without increasing costs to you.

 

[maya2008]

If he is costing £440 per month and you’re paying £300 per month, then you are effectively subsidising the owner’s riding. I would guess that they are struggling with the cost of living increases in general and are trying to find money wherever they can. If you can afford it easily, then this is about whether you want to keep riding that particular horse. If you cannot afford it, just say so and look for something else. Equally, if you would actually like to find something different/younger then now would be a good time to end the arrangement. Lots of people will be looking for sharers as prices go up.

 

[criso]

I'd say £25 per day is the higher end of shared loans and ones I've seen approaching that price have been for horses that can do quite a lot, are easy to ride, option to compete etc on smart yards with good facilities and very few yard duties.

 

[splashgirl45]

If you are not doing any of the jobs on your days it’s the higher end of what I would expect. If you are doing jobs then it’s too much .. if you can’t afford that much just tell her you can’t and ask to cut your days to 2.. I was riding a horse and it was no jobs and £10 per day ,

 

[Bellaboo18]

I think its steep tbh.
Assuming it's £75 a week, 52 weeks a year. That works out at 325 a month. That's a big increase. Sounds like the owner has calculated her costs at 440pcm so I think you're paying a large chunk of that for 3 days a week. I wouldn't personally feel I could charge that.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I agree it sounds high and the increase very steep. I paid £25 per day for my last share but the agreement was 1-day per week which was £100/month which was manageable for me. I was happy to pay more as there were no jobs/less responsibility than for DIY (not that I mind jobs or responsibility it just fit better with my work circumstances). Plus I had the absolute magic combo of fab confidence giving horse, lovely owner, friendly yard and endless off road hacking. I also ended up often getting more rides as the owner was just pleased to have some cover for exercising the horse when she was away on holiday.

 

[Winters100]

I am just wondering how this works. For example you currently pay 50% or the livery / farrier etc, so if the horse is off games for a week or two then you have anyway already paid for these items (I am assuming that there is no refund). If it goes to a 'per time' arrangement then does that mean that you do not pay, or need to attend to do jobs, if the horse is not available to ride?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's a big increase in my opinion

 

[oldie48]

I am sharing a horse but I look at it a completely different way ie I think about what the horse is worth to me rather than what he costs to keep. I see value in the level of training, how safe the horse is and what I am asked to contribute in terms of time. Fairness is what is acceptable to both parties IMO but perhaps I'm unusual. If I can't ride (just had to have 4 weeks off due to a medical issue) I still pay and if horse was unable to work I would negotiate a lower rate and am confident that would be OK as I pay more than what he actually costs to keep. It is a bit of a minefield but I think talking to the owner is the way forward and understanding her point of view might help you to come to an acceptable agreement.

 

[Redcow-hat]

Wow, I need to up my prices ? My loaner (2 days a week, livery in the week and DIY on weekends only, fantastic yard with great hacking) pays £80 a month, so roughly £10 a day. I feel like I'm being cheeky asking for that much as she does chores one day and saves me petrol and time but it seems to be the going rate here in the South. I think she's taking the royal mick to be honest, even before that insane price increase.

 

[ester]

I agree with oldie re. it's what it's worth to you. I get quite a nice horse to ride who I can have lessons on, is fairly schoolmasterish in some things, could take out if we had transport, on a yard with nice people and reasonable facilities.

He is a bit broken so we do work around that and has had a quiet few weeks due to being more broken than normal and our arenas have been poor with the total lack of rain, but to me that's just horses.

But I'm also doing him on DIY 3 times a week which the owner couldn't do (she does 2, someone else does 2), I'm pretty useful in that I clip him, I can be there for the farrier/physio etc if needed, pick up feed as it's in my village. .
I pay less than other sharers on the yard but they only go up once a day, and don't do full care as they are more time restricted but can afford a bit more £. Whatever the situation it has to suit all parties.

A friend paid a lot more than I would have managed for a share a while back but she got a pony she could take BE and the owner helped kept fit enough to do that- something she wouldn't have had the time to manage if she had her own.

 

[Flyermc]

I think it depends

Around here £25 will get you a 1hr very average riding lesson, on not the best schooled 'kick along' ponies. If the horse is nice, the facilities are good and you use them, then its maybe not a bad deal, but its probably possible that you'll find something cheaper, particularly coming into winter.

 

[MLCHorse]

Thank you all for your feedback, it has been super helpful in guiding me to a decision! The circumstances with the current loan and the newly proposed loan is bit more complicated than I could share. I haven’t been able to give all the ins and outs and background to you, but bottom line - I feel it is too much, and it seems that has been more or less confirmed here. I just started doubting myself, but there’s wisdom in the counsel of many ? Thanks again for your help.

 

[Winters100]

I am sharing a horse but I look at it a completely different way ie I think about what the horse is worth to me rather than what he costs to keep. I see value in the level of training, how safe the horse is and what I am asked to contribute in terms of time. Fairness is what is acceptable to both parties IMO but perhaps I'm unusual. If I can't ride (just had to have 4 weeks off due to a medical issue) I still pay and if horse was unable to work I would negotiate a lower rate and am confident that would be OK as I pay more than what he actually costs to keep. It is a bit of a minefield but I think talking to the owner is the way forward and understanding her point of view might help you to come to an acceptable agreement.

Yes, this is a good point. If you have a horse who is a great fit for you then it is worth more to you.

I also think about the value of the sharer to the owner, which is in some cases significant. I have never had a sharer, but at present I have a lovely couple who are riding 2 of mine 2/3 times a week, as since I had Covid 6 months ago I still have a lack of energy. It is not a 'share' arrangement as such. I don't ask for any payment, and ponies are on half livery (all done except riding), so chores are only checking that all is in order, and on the odd occasion that I will not be there adding supplements to boxed feeds. To me however it is well worthwhile as they are both nice riders, and sensible and reliable people who help me out in the event that I am away. We don't have set days, we just message to arrange things once a week. As I like the ponies fit, and I give unlimited forage even to my good-doer, movement is essential. It is a nice arrangement for all parties, I don't need to pay a pro to move the ponies, they get to ride fit, nicely schooled 'push button' ponies at no cost, and with the only work being to tack up / untack for themselves and cast an eye over things and message me if something seems improperly done.

I am not expressing it very well, but I am trying to say that Oldie48 is right about 'value', and that it goes both ways, higher 'value' for a nice horse which can do what you want, and equally there is higher 'value' for an experienced and responsible rider.

 

[HashRouge]

I would not pay £25 a day for a part-loan or share. I think the OP's current arrangement (1/2 of all costs for 3 days a week) sounds very fair and, in the OP's shoes, I would be annoyed about any proposed increase unless it was because livery costs were going up or something similar. It is all very well saying "a fair price is whatever the horse is worth to the loaner", but looking at it from the other perspective, we might argue that if the owner ought to be thinking about what the loaner is worth to them. They get a (presumably) trustworthy part-loaner, someone covering 3 days with their horse, and 1/2 their costs covered. That's not necessarily easy to find, as we all know from the many "how do you find a good loaner/ sharer" posts we see on this forum. Either way, I'm not sure I understand why the part-loaner should be paying more of the horse's costs than the owner.

 

[JBM]

I have a sharer it’s 10 a day maxed out at 25..so if you ride 3-6 days same price
Sharer only 12 so wouldn’t wanna charge much more ??‍
Mines is 21 and pretty much exact same as your share

 

[TealH0rse]

As a sharer, I wouldn’t have agreed to your initial arrangement, let alone the new one.

I pay £10 per day. 2 days a week but owner is very kind and allows extra days free of charge. This has been my arrangement for my last 3 share horses. All young, relatively bombproof horses which I have been able to do pretty much anything with. All on lovely yards.

At the end of the day, you’re sharing 3 days a week. For 300 a month you could pay for diy and farrier fees for a horse of your own in some areas of the country.

As hard as it is, I’d leave the share and find something more reasonable.

 

[TealH0rse]

I think it depends

Around here £25 will get you a 1hr very average riding lesson, on not the best schooled 'kick along' ponies. If the horse is nice, the facilities are good and you use them, then its maybe not a bad deal, but its probably possible that you'll find something cheaper, particularly coming into winter.

Lessons are the same near me but I still only pay £10 a day for a share. Owners can get a lot out of a sharer too: stable chores get done and you’re paid for it instead of having to pay for services, horse is getting an additional rider and quite possibly more education depending on the experience of said rider and you’re having someone trustworthy look out for your horse. It’s not simply offering a service in the way riding schools do, which enables them to charge high fees.

 

[Flyermc]

Lessons are the same near me but I still only pay £10 a day for a share. Owners can get a lot out of a sharer too: stable chores get done and you’re paid for it instead of having to pay for services, horse is getting an additional rider and quite possibly more education depending on the experience of said rider and you’re having someone trustworthy look out for your horse. It’s not simply offering a service in the way riding schools do, which enables them to charge high fees.

The OP's loan horse is on livery in the week and is 20 years old, so its less likely that the horses owners would benefit from more education.

A share cost per day at the same price as an average riding lesson, also comes with lots of benefits. Like i mentioned, the OP could probably find something cheaper.

 

[TealH0rse]

The OP's loan horse is on livery in the week and is 20 years old, so its less likely that the horses owners would benefit from more education.

A share cost per day at the same price as an average riding lesson, also comes with lots of benefits. Like i mentioned, the OP could probably find something cheaper.

I was talking about benefits in general, not specifically the ones applicable to this scenario.

I don’t know many people who would pay £25 a day for a share. £10-15 is the limit for most.

 

[Jess1994PM]

Hey,
I have loaned for quite a few years and usually I would pay £25-£30 per week and I could ride 3/4 times a week, and take her hunting/fun rides. I would have to do daily jobs on my days but only go up once per day and she would sort them in a morning.
The one thing I would be careful of is loaning is doing "too much" training for them, as I would loan and do loads of work with the horse for quite a long time and then the owner wants to start riding them again suddenly!
Now finally bought my own and paying not much more in stable fee's than a loan and I get her everyday without worries.