What is the maximum level of bute you'd give your retired pony?

sarahann1

sarahann1

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Hello all,

I'm looking for opinions on the maximum level of bute you'd give a retired 14.2hh pony before you get to the point where you think enough is enough and pts?

I'm asking because its looking like my boy is going to be permenantly on bute, I'm just a bit undecided about how much is too much? Obv I'll ask my vets but I'd realy like you're opinions too.

NB in case anyone wonders he's got navicular, prone to lami, arthritis and from previous xrays vets think there is dejeneration in his joints over and above the arthritis but didn't come to a firm conclusion what exactly. He's a happy wee soul just now its just all his ailments seem to be getting the better of him more frequently these days so I want to be fully informed or as much as you can be in these circumstances anyway.

Thanks very much.
 
I've had this discussion many times about my 36 year old. The answer I have come to is, as much as he needs to keep him pain free. If that destroys his liver, then so what, not being uncaring in that by the way.

They need a quality of life and that means pain free. Better a couple of years happy than 10 years in pain.

That said my boy isn't on it at all yet, but I have made my plans and decisions ahead of it happening.

He was on it a few years ago in Winter when we were on a very high cold windy yard. Since we moved down into the valley he doesn't need it.

I have read all the arguments about keeping them moving, but have gone for the pampered pony approach. He is never allowed to get cold or wet. He comes in at night all year round. He wears plenty of rugs in winter and if necessary leg warmers. And he's a cob :D:D

He was being ridden lightly until last back end and still drags us to the field and gallops round with his friends.
 
sarahann1 said:
Hello all,

I'm looking for opinions on the maximum level of bute you'd give a retired 14.2hh pony before you get to the point where you think enough is enough and pts?

I'm asking because its looking like my boy is going to be permenantly on bute, I'm just a bit undecided about how much is too much? Obv I'll ask my vets but I'd realy like you're opinions too.

NB in case anyone wonders he's got navicular, prone to lami, arthritis and from previous xrays vets think there is dejeneration in his joints over and above the arthritis but didn't come to a firm conclusion what exactly. He's a happy wee soul just now its just all his ailments seem to be getting the better of him more frequently these days so I want to be fully informed or as much as you can be in these circumstances anyway.

Thanks very much.
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Sorry to hear . I have known horses on 3-4 danilon a day


A few questions???


Is he on Joint supplement?? ( my mare was told to be on bute for the rest of her life to arthritis.)
I put her on flexijoint and she did not need it anymore, its powerful 100% money back guarantee. look at these H&H reviews of others that tried it

http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/a.html

Alternatives you can try :

 
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Thanks for the replies folks.

rockysmum - 36 and on no bute, wow what a dude, give him a cuddle from me!

Leviathan - he is on flexi-joint at the moment, tried cider vinager, it was ming apparently.
I'm looking at magnetic boots too, thanks for that. haven't tried the other supplement

amymay - thanks, do you mind me asking why 1 is your long term limit?

He's only 19 but I think he had a really hard ticket before he came to me (he's, well, was, great at jumping and I think thats been taken advantage of) now I'm dealing with the outfall.

I know anything could get him beforehand but I'd like to know more if it gets to the point he needs more and more bute to keep him comfortable.

Thanks again.
 
If my horse or pony needed bute to stay field sound them Im afraid Id be giving a good summer then PTS before winter.

I have a 21yr old pony who had had a hard life before he came to me and hes still UN-MEDICATED and being a happy hacker/schoolmaster fir flatowrk for someone out on Loan.

If he needed bute to remain field sound then i wouldnt be doing it Im afraid. Im rabidly against giving bute to retired horses.
 
For me one (with the occasional two) would be my limit because any more than that and you are merely prolonging the life of a chronically lame horse for no benefit other than your own.
 
My friend had her horse on one bute a day for years (he was over 40 when he was pts). Like its been said on a previous reply its my understanding that its not that dangerous fed low dose long term, but high dose long term it is and that is accumulative liver damage in which case it could take many years to destroy the liver.
 
amymay said:
For me one (with the occasional two) would be my limit because any more than that and you are merely prolonging the life of a chronically lame horse for no benefit other than your own.
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When you are 80 years old and need to take 8 ibuprofen to ease the pain in whatever joint is hurting you then do you want one of us to finish you off because that's too many pills?
 
alsiola said:
When you are 80 years old and need to take 8 ibuprofen to ease the pain in whatever joint is hurting you then do you want one of us to finish you off because that's too many pills?
Click to expand...

That would depend on my quality of life. If I had a nice home, good food, friends and family and the pills made me feel good enough to go for a jog around the garden, then no I wouldn't want finishing off.

If the pills were barely enough for me to hobble around the house. If my friends and family no longer wanted me, I lived in a hovel with poor food and care, then probably yes.
 
My 26yo is on a low dose of bute for mild arthritis. He's not actually lame as such without it on a day to day basis, but without it he does have a limited range of movement in his hocks and gets sore/loses power around the extremes of flexion. The bute means that he can hold his back legs up for the farrier to trim him and it means he can roll right over and get himself up.

I don't think you can have a number of bute in your head as 'the line' because it depends on why you're giving the bute, what the effect of the bute is, and what the horse's quality of life is.

Bute has long term cumulative anti inflammatory qualities which is why it's so good for arthritic type conditions and why it has worked so well for my chap. However, in my chap's case, because we are not using it only for pain relief, additional bute will not necessarily have the desired effect, so we're not in a situation where I can up the bute if/when he deteriorates.

It all comes down to quality of life at the end of the day xxx
 
EstherYoung said:
Bute has long term cumulative anti inflammatory qualities which is why it's so good for arthritic type conditions and why it has worked so well for my chap. However, in my chap's case, because we are not using it only for pain relief, additional bute will not necessarily have the desired effect, so we're not in a situation where I can up the bute if/when he deteriorates.

It all comes down to quality of life at the end of the day xxx
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And of course, this is the most sensible reply on the whole thread.

I absolutely agree with Esther.
 
Thank you to those of you who have taken the time to reply with reasoned opinions, helps me a great deal and give me comfort that I'm not being unrealistic about this.
 
My pony is on bute long term and is retired. She is happy in herself and never looks unhappy or dejected. I have owned her her whole life and know her well. For me it is not the number of bute just whether she is happy. I feel sure I will know when it is her time from how she is.
 
I would personally never keep a horse on bute long term just to keep it field sound. If it were my pony i would give it a nice last summer than think about the PTS option before winter set in. Yes it's not nice to think about but at the end of the day, I wouldnt want to be drugged up on pain relief just to be able to live without pain (if it was legal in this country, I would want to be 'PTS'!)
 
My 38 yr old pony had 1 danilon a day for the last two and a half years of her life. It wasn't to "keep her sound" but just meant that she was happy and comfortable enough to enjoy her last years wandering around the field with the other horses. I don't think it did her any harm at all at this stage. If she had had a poor quality of life it would not have been the right answer, but it was just age catching up with her so I wanted to keep her pain free.
 
alsiola said:
When you are 80 years old and need to take 8 ibuprofen to ease the pain in whatever joint is hurting you then do you want one of us to finish you off because that's too many pills?
Click to expand...

^ 5 this


If You get cronic back pain is 1 or 2 measly ibuprofen all you will take??

or will you take voltravol diazipan and co-codamol too??

if you get a sever Migraine do you just take panadol and put up with the pain??? or would you opt for Imigran??:rolleyes::rolleyes:.
 
amymay said:
For me one (with the occasional two) would be my limit because any more than that and you are merely prolonging the life of a chronically lame horse for no benefit other than your own.
Click to expand...

But is that not the reason for giving bute to prolong the life by reducing inflammation and pain?


How can you state its for the humans benefit and not the horses:confused:
If the horse is alive and enjoying life on 2 or 3 bute who are we to snuff out a life????.

If the horse on bute will enjoy a retirement and the bute will not cause the lameness to get worse, then I say go ahead.

If like a tendon the horses medical problems would get worst for not feeling the pain and run round, that is another story then I say no bute .



No one wants horses on high doses of bute for no reason but if the quality of life improves then I can justify the increase dose.
 
My vet said that if my horse's hocks were paining him (has spavin) then give him bute. He left me a huge supply. His idea is that I had two choices: I could retire him and not ride him or compete him anymore and chuck him out in a field and OR if he was stiff or his coffin joints played him up I could give him a couple of bute prior to a jumping class and he would be comfortable and pain free. This is what I do for myself with my slipped disc to enable me to ride and compete, so I don't see the big deal about doing this with my horse and to have the complete backing of my vet is brilliant.

Now he has fused the hocks with ethanol so the bute isn't necessary. However his coffin joint arthritis has started causing him the odd problem so again I called the vet out and he said if he's sore one day them give him bute for a couple of days and take him out, and enjoy him. Not to everyone's taste but if my horse is happy and continues to bound onto the trailer in anticipation of a show then I will continue to follow my vets advice and bute him if and when his joints play up which hopefully won't be for a few months or more as he is sound now.

I'd have no hesitation in giving my horse two or three bute a day in retirement to keep him comfortable. If we can do that for ourselves as humans why not our animals too? How can people say its not right?
 
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