What is the penalty for failing a drug test?

[ponymum]

I've heard today that a friend of a friend is intending to compete BD having given her horse bute two days before the competition. It was pointed out to them that the drug would still be in his system if he were tested. I think they probably still gave it to him. What would be the penalty if they were to be tested? This isn't an FEI competition, just a BD Prelim - not worth risking IMHO but it takes all sorts.

 

[DabDab]

Well unless you were to report them, the chance of them being tested is extremely slim.

I wouldn't worry yourself trying to talk them out of it, if they won't be dissuaded by the welfare issue of competing their horse on bute then I doubt it being against the rules will put them off.

 

[CoachinaCar]

Fined and banned for a while. Named and shamed in BD magazine.

 

[rachk89]

You think that's bad, I know of horses that are on bute every day to keep them rideable and they go to competitions all the time, even the big named ones. Testing hasn't happened yet so keep getting away with it. I just feel bad for the horses.

 

[Shay]

Testing is vanishingly rare unless you are at national level competitions. Its cheating - obviously. And is potentially a welfare concern for the horse - which is largely why the substances are banned in the first place. But sadly one of those things. Even if you reported them at prelim I doubt there would even be the facilities for testing.

 

[Auslander]

This make me rage. I have no issue with the odd tactical bute when Alf is having an achy day, as he is far better kept moving. He only hacks in walk when I'm concerned enough about him to bute him. People who use bute to mask lameness so that they can compete should be lined up against a wall and shot. Several times...

 

[ponymum]

Thanks for your replies. I agree, it's a welfare issue and it makes me very angry but they're likely to get away with it. My horse was once tested at a small BS show and I was really worried, even though I knew he hadn't had anything. It was reassuring in a way that they were testing at the lower levels - he was only jumping British Novice - and I wish they had the resources to do it more often.
I just wondered how much the fine would be and how long the ban.

 

[be positive]

This make me rage. I have no issue with the odd tactical bute when Alf is having an achy day, as he is far better kept moving. He only hacks in walk when I'm concerned enough about him to bute him. People who use bute to mask lameness so that they can compete should be lined up against a wall and shot. Several times...

I have the opposite view, that if a bute a day, prescribed by a vet after a diagnosis, can keep a horse comfortably in full work and allow the owner to do some low level, unaff competing then it is a better option than shooting it so it can be replaced which is the reality for many, most people are happy to inject steroids so the horse can continue to do it's job or to use various herbal remedies so to my mind as long as it is given for the right reasons I have no problem with it.

Indiscriminate use just for covering up unknown lameness and using it for affiliated competitions is cheating and they can be shot rather than the horse but sadly it is likely that the horse will be moved on/ shot rather than live out a happy retirement if it is a long term condition they are not all as lucky as Alf.

 

[claracanter]

My vet told me he was doing testing at a county show this year and in one show jumping class, 11 of the 12 competitors pulled out when they knew they might be tested!!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have the opposite view, that if a bute a day, prescribed by a vet after a diagnosis, can keep a horse comfortably in full work and allow the owner to do some low level, unaff competing then it is a better option than shooting it so it can be replaced which is the reality for many, most people are happy to inject steroids so the horse can continue to do it's job or to use various herbal remedies so to my mind as long as it is given for the right reasons I have no problem with it.

Indiscriminate use just for covering up unknown lameness and using it for affiliated competitions is cheating and they can be shot rather than the horse but sadly it is likely that the horse will be moved on/ shot rather than live out a happy retirement if it is a long term condition they are not all as lucky as Alf.

So it's ok to cheat other competitor's, who have paid their entry fee, out of their true placings, in unaffiliated comps but not in affiliated ones? What's the difference?

 

[rachk89]

So it's ok to cheat other competitor's, who have paid their entry fee, out of their true placings, in unaffiliated comps but not in affiliated ones? What's the difference?

Yeah and either way the horse is still in pain. Hardly makes it OK to let a horse be in pain for any competition but that's just me.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yeah and either way the horse is still in pain. Hardly makes it OK to let a horse be in pain for any competition but that's just me.

Well, hopefully, the bute will have had the effect that the horse is no longer in pain, otherwise there would be no point in giving it to mask the stiffness/lameness.
I would never jump a horse on bute, as IMO that would be likely to cause further damage to joints etc but light work on bute, to keep everything moving is fine by me. I was interested in bp's view that affiliated and unaffiliated comps should be approached differently, though.

 

[be positive]

So it's ok to cheat other competitor's, who have paid their entry fee, out of their true placings, in unaffiliated comps but not in affiliated ones? What's the difference?

Low level unaff stuff is where the average horse/ ride is competing purely for fun, considering how many I see that are unsound I would prefer they had a bit of help to continue, as long as it is after a proper diagnosis, keeping an older horse with a bit of arthritis comfortable so it can have a few days out is not cheating in the way it would be doing the same with a horse with an unknown or known injury going out aff to get points on it's record/ qualify for a champs or win money, if it is a choice between keeping the horse or getting rid I would prefer they had a comfortable active life having a bit of help, I see no difference between using a proven treatment that will work than using herbal remedies to have the same effect that may not work so well meaning the horse is still competing but is not as comfortable as it could be.

I know it is not going to be a popular view but it is realistic, there must be 1000's of horses competing at all levels with steroids in their systems, having calmers to try and change their temperaments, numerous supplements that may or may not work, it is never going to be a totally level playing field and probably every class will have someone "cheating" or pushing the boundaries in some way that they can justify to themselves, in an ideal world every horse will be retired at the right time to a quieter life or to live out in a field until the time is right but not many people will or can do this so keep going until they cannot get away with riding the horse at the level they want, at that point the responsible ones will pts but many are passed on to an uncertain future, possibly a dealer who will bute it and sell on, it is where so many horses end up, we may all be responsible but we do need to be realistic.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Actually, ime, it is the average horse which is most likely to be retired by a long-term owner.
I have no problem with people continuing to ride their arthritic etc horses, if the vet agrees and prescribes medication to allow them to do so but I do think that they should not be competing, which is cheating. Those average riders who pay to compete in unaffilaited comps may well struggle to pay for entry fees and transport. Why should they have to put up with competing against medicated horses, which outperform them unfairly?
I am in the 'horses have no idea of the future' camp and would prefer them to be pts rather than competed after they should have been retired to light duties.

 

[Orangehorse]

Low level unaff stuff is where the average horse/ ride is competing purely for fun, considering how many I see that are unsound I would prefer they had a bit of help to continue, as long as it is after a proper diagnosis, keeping an older horse with a bit of arthritis comfortable so it can have a few days out is not cheating in the way it would be doing the same with a horse with an unknown or known injury going out aff to get points on it's record/ qualify for a champs or win money, if it is a choice between keeping the horse or getting rid I would prefer they had a comfortable active life having a bit of help, I see no difference between using a proven treatment that will work than using herbal remedies to have the same effect that may not work so well meaning the horse is still competing but is not as comfortable as it could be.

I know it is not going to be a popular view but it is realistic, there must be 1000's of horses competing at all levels with steroids in their systems, having calmers to try and change their temperaments, numerous supplements that may or may not work, it is never going to be a totally level playing field and probably every class will have someone "cheating" or pushing the boundaries in some way that they can justify to themselves, in an ideal world every horse will be retired at the right time to a quieter life or to live out in a field until the time is right but not many people will or can do this so keep going until they cannot get away with riding the horse at the level they want, at that point the responsible ones will pts but many are passed on to an uncertain future, possibly a dealer who will bute it and sell on, it is where so many horses end up, we may all be responsible but we do need to be realistic.

I agree with this. How many old horses and ponies are there that are doing a useful job teaching their riders and having a fun, interesting life?

We are not talking about affiliated competitions where there is real money at stake, if you take a horse to a local unaffiliated show you are competing for a rosette mostly. I have never seen anything in the rules at an affiliated show to say about banned substances. However, if you have to register with a show society, BD, etc. I dare say there are lots of rules and regulations to be complied with and in some cases all the winners are routinely drug tested.

 

[milliepops]

Hmmmm most unaff shows say they are run to BD/BS/BE rules and therefore by extension to the FEI clean sports rules.

I don't have a problem with people buteing horses to ride at home as discussed above. I do have a problem with people competing with banned substances swirling around in their animals.

I have been to countless affiliated shows and have been selected for the drugs test only once.

 

[AdorableAlice]

My good horse was tested several times through his career as a show hunter. The most shocking day was at Royal Shrewsbury, huge entries catalogued in all 3 weight divisions with just a handful forward in the classes, yet those entries were on the ground. We were parked next door to a 8 horse wagon owned by a very well known and prolifically successful lady producer. One horse came off that truck to compete.

The Show Hunter Society rules were a ban and forfeit of any qualifications gained. I was extremely careful with cross contamination via buckets etc, which everyone who competes under rules needs to be of course.

I am with Be Positive regarding the fun horses/riders. Today we had fun at local level, horse had a bit of help with her general stiffness and the rider had 2 nurofen to ease his stiff hip. At stake was a rosette and an ice cream, the result was no rosette but the mare enjoyed her ice cream. Was there any suffering or cheating...............?

 

[claracanter]

There must be a lot of older school master pony club ponies who have Cushings. Many of them are treated with Prascend. Technically these ponies should be banned from competing because FEI consider it a performance enhancing drug.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My good horse was tested several times through his career as a show hunter. The most shocking day was at Royal Shrewsbury, huge entries catalogued in all 3 weight divisions with just a handful forward in the classes, yet those entries were on the ground. We were parked next door to a 8 horse wagon owned by a very well known and prolifically successful lady producer. One horse came off that truck to compete.

The Show Hunter Society rules were a ban and forfeit of any qualifications gained. I was extremely careful with cross contamination via buckets etc, which everyone who competes under rules needs to be of course.

I am with Be Positive regarding the fun horses/riders. Today we had fun at local level, horse had a bit of help with her general stiffness and the rider had 2 nurofen to ease his stiff hip. At stake was a rosette and an ice cream, the result was no rosette but the mare enjoyed her ice cream. Was there any suffering or cheating...............?

I doubt that there was suffering, the bute would see to that and as no rosette was forthcoming, I don't suppose it matters. In fact it could be said that your entry fee had boosted the coffers of the local organisation which organised the show BUT if your, otherwise stiff, horse had won at the expense of a young, local rider whose horse will never get to HOYS (I am aware this is a different horse), would you have considered your actions ethical? I am afraid that I wouldn't!

How would you feel if you found out the winner was buted up, while your horse was competing clean?

 

[SO1]

At affiliated competitions I think the winners should be tested as at the very least they could be preventing someone else from going through to a final.

Amateur riders competing at local unaffiliated shows with no qualifiers maybe a bit of flexibility - maybe if a vet has written a certificate to say that a medication has been prescribed and there are no welfare issues for the horse to be competed at that level. An elderly pony on bute for arthritis giving a child its first introduction to a lead rein class safely only doing walk and a bit of trot is very different to an advanced dressage horse being ridden by a professional.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

At affiliated competitions I think the winners should be tested as at the very least they could be preventing someone else from going through to a final.

Amateur riders competing at local unaffiliated shows with no qualifiers maybe a bit of flexibility - maybe if a vet has written a certificate to say that a medication has been prescribed and there are no welfare issues for the horse to be competed at that level. An elderly pony on bute for arthritis giving a child its first introduction to a lead rein class safely only doing walk and a bit of trot is very different to an advanced dressage horse being ridden by a professional.

So where would you draw the line? What about WH where an experienced hunter might be buted up to compete in uaffiliated classes?

It does seem to me that some posters seem to be of the opinion that if the comp is not policed, anything goes.

 

[SO1]

If a vet has said this was not a welfare issue for the horse, (I don't think there is any rules for horses that stop them hunting on bute if owner and vet agree it is ok), then I don't think it would be a big problem though maybe very fair taking a very experienced show horse that say had been to HOYs to a local unaffiliated show {medicated or not}.

Obviously people who go against their vets recommendations should be penalised so if a vet says suitable for light hacking on bute and then rider decides to go show jumping then that would be a problem, maybe less of an issue say if they decide to do an in hand show class or walk trot test.

I suppose the problem is there will be people who will go against their vet's advice and maybe do more than they should and it might increase the risk of people taking horses with viruses to shows which might spread. I don't think there is the horse version of day nurse though which allows horse to work quite hard even if they have a nasty virus.

So where would you draw the line? What about WH where an experienced hunter might be buted up to compete in uaffiliated classes?

It does seem to me that some posters seem to be of the opinion that if the comp is not policed, anything goes.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I think there isn't a 100% correct answer. Every horse is different and with equine medicine advancing quickly many fun/weekender type horses are able to live long and happy lives giving lots of pleasure to their owners.

Many posters are assuming that a horse - mine included - is 'buted up' to compete at the local show. There are many things that can be given help a horse stay comfortable, happy and useful. The range is endless, calmers, breathing/allergy assistance, pain relief, specific shoeing, prescend, ear plugs, etc etc, the list is endless and products range from POM to herbal and anecdotal potions.

Regardless of where ones opinion sits, there are two things to consider. The first is there are very few 100% sound horses that remain that way for their lives regardless of what level they are aimed at and secondly this country would need to start eating horse meat or be prepared to sell it because there would be many thousands of useless horses around.

So with that bombshell, I shall take some pain relief and do a days graft, I propose the government passes a law that says old people must stop working when they need pain relief to enable them to work !

 

[sarahann1]

Testing is vanishingly rare unless you are at national level competitions. Its cheating - obviously. And is potentially a welfare concern for the horse - which is largely why the substances are banned in the first place. But sadly one of those things. Even if you reported them at prelim I doubt there would even be the facilities for testing.

You say that, but my instructor was telling me that testing round our way is increasing, and being done at lower level competitions. She was stuck waiting for hours after one competition because she'd been selected for testing and her horse just wouldn't wee!

I think it can result in quite a substantial fine for your average rider from what she was saying.

 

[TGM]

You say that, but my instructor was telling me that testing round our way is increasing, and being done at lower level competitions.

Yes, I agree - people shouldn't be complacent about drug testing just because they are not competing at top level. Our horse was drug tested after a BE Novice, and I have heard of people being tested further down the BE levels. There is a case on the BE disciplinary list of someone who was disqualified from a BE90 for a Controlled Medication Violation and fined over £1000!

 

[ester]

There must be a lot of older school master pony club ponies who have Cushings. Many of them are treated with Prascend. Technically these ponies should be banned from competing because FEI consider it a performance enhancing drug.

Except that pony club do actually address this. They seem to potentially be a bit lax on bute too.

Medications
Horses that are apparently fit and healthy but receiving veterinary treatment with prescription drugs
may be allowed to attend Pony Club events. Some medications are required for the ongoing health
and welfare of a horse / pony which is otherwise fit and capable of normal work. An example of this
could be treatment for Cushing’s disease. At events such as Championships and Polo competitions,
dope testing might be utilised in accordance with FEI rules. Under these rules, drugs are grouped
into lists of banned and controlled substances. Controlled substances, such as drugs commonly
used in the treatment of Cushing’s disease, are allowed at FEI events provided a veterinary
certificate states that the ongoing medication is for a diagnosed condition and necessary for the
continued health of the horse. An owner of a horse on prescription medication (this includes
phenylbutazone) must inform the event organisers in advance so that proper certification can be
provided if deemed necessary. The event organisers may ban a horse from attending if it is
receiving analgesic or anti-inflammatory medication (e.g. phenylbutazone), or if participation in the
event is, in the opinion of the organisers, likely to be detrimental to the horse’s health and welfare.

 

[claracanter]

Except that pony club do actually address this. They seem to potentially be a bit lax on bute too.

Medications
Horses that are apparently fit and healthy but receiving veterinary treatment with prescription drugs
may be allowed to attend Pony Club events. Some medications are required for the ongoing health
and welfare of a horse / pony which is otherwise fit and capable of normal work. An example of this
could be treatment for Cushing’s disease. At events such as Championships and Polo competitions,
dope testing might be utilised in accordance with FEI rules. Under these rules, drugs are grouped
into lists of banned and controlled substances. Controlled substances, such as drugs commonly
used in the treatment of Cushing’s disease, are allowed at FEI events provided a veterinary
certificate states that the ongoing medication is for a diagnosed condition and necessary for the
continued health of the horse. An owner of a horse on prescription medication (this includes
phenylbutazone) must inform the event organisers in advance so that proper certification can be
provided if deemed necessary. The event organisers may ban a horse from attending if it is
receiving analgesic or anti-inflammatory medication (e.g. phenylbutazone), or if participation in the
event is, in the opinion of the organisers, likely to be detrimental to the horse’s health and welfare.

That's great Ester, I wasn't aware of that. Common sense prevails. Is that from a pony club rule book?

 

[ester]

sorry should have included a link
http://www.pcuk.org/uploads/dcs/The_Welfare_Of_Horses_And_Ponies_at_Pony_Club_Events_2016.pdf. I don't think it has changed for 2017

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think there isn't a 100% correct answer. Every horse is different and with equine medicine advancing quickly many fun/weekender type horses are able to live long and happy lives giving lots of pleasure to their owners.

Many posters are assuming that a horse - mine included - is 'buted up' to compete at the local show. There are many things that can be given help a horse stay comfortable, happy and useful. The range is endless, calmers, breathing/allergy assistance, pain relief, specific shoeing, prescend, ear plugs, etc etc, the list is endless and products range from POM to herbal and anecdotal potions.

Regardless of where ones opinion sits, there are two things to consider. The first is there are very few 100% sound horses that remain that way for their lives regardless of what level they are aimed at and secondly this country would need to start eating horse meat or be prepared to sell it because there would be many thousands of useless horses around.

So with that bombshell, I shall take some pain relief and do a days graft, I propose the government passes a law that says old people must stop working when they need pain relief to enable them to work !

I agree with your last paragraph, AA, it's ok the gvt saying that people are living longer, unfortunately that is because modern medicine can extend the life of the frail, not necessarily because people in their 60s are healthier/more agile etc than their forebears.

To go back to horses, we have a couple of oldies atm. One is on Prascend, the other has been on steroids for breathing problems. Neither of them will compete now, not even as veterans. I don't actually see why stopping unsound horses competing at unaffiliated comps as well as affiliated ones would mean we need to eat more horsemeat - apart from anything else it would be very tough! If people do not wish to keep their medicated horses when they can no longer compete, they can just have them pts as they will have to do eventually, no need to send them to an abbatoir.

I agree that there are unsound horses competing at low level around the country but if we can see that, they are either unmedicated, or the medication isn't doing much good. That, imo, is because many owners can't recognise unsoundness in their own horses, which is very worrying.

ETA, just read the link ester, than you, that does make the pc situation clear.

 

[poishishikochi]

Thank you for the article, I was interested to learn about it. Actually, I knew they are strict about it. Otherwise, these competitions will not be fair and will not make sense. By the way, last year I ran a marathon and we had to take a drug test. I was very worried because I was taking medication that is eliminated from the body only a month after the end of the reception. So I bought a test kit to test myself at home. It's very convenient that they made such urine drug test cups, and you can find out the test result yourself.