What is the problem with flash nosebands???

[kafrin181995]

Yep basically title!

I have a mare, if i ride her in a cavesson, she has her mouth continuously open and close, open and close, open and close etc.....
with a flash fine acting like a different horse

???hmmmmmm

 

[NicoleS_007]

I dont see a problem with them either ... if a horse needs one and works well in it then fair enough. I think the problem people have with them is when they are poorly fitted to the horse or excessively tight!

 

[kafrin181995]

I dont see a problem with them either ... if a horse needs one and works well in it then fair enough. I think the problem people have with them is when they are poorly fitted to the horse or excessively tight!

Yehh i agree, the thing is i would have to ride her with a veryyyy strong bit if i didnt have a flash. i do it up tight but not excessively, no point having one when people do them up loseley!!! x

 

[marmalade76]

I have no problem with correctly fitted flashes on horses that actually need them.

But so many folks don't seem to know ow to fit them properly and there are some who use them because they are fashionable, regardless of whether their horse needs it or not!

 

[ilvpippa]

Mine needs on, she still opens her mouth with one on, & its done up correctly, i think im going to have to invest in a grackle! xx

 

[Echo Bravo]

Agree with the above posts, you often see them too tight and yes there does seem to a fashion fad on many things pink bling on horses and following showjumpers with their latest gadgets.

 

[lizziebell]

There are lots of people that have their bee in a bonnet about almost every single item of tack/ equipment. Its all personally choice and what works for your horse. I use a flash strap for schooling, and I use a grackle for hacking in - you just have to look at my dress sense to know I'm not doing it for fashion. I would rather restrict my mare opening her mouth than use a stronger bit.

 

[Steorra]

I don't think it's flash nosebands themselves that are the problem...when they are used correctly. I don't much like them, mostly because they have become a fashionable gadget, and lots of horses wear flashes when they don't or shouldn't need them. When I bought my horse's new bridle a few years ago it was very difficult to find one without a flash!

Also, like any artificial aid, they can end up being used as a quick fix for a problem that would be better solved by schooling. Not saying this applies to every case, but if a horse will only close it's mouth when wearing a flash then my first thought is that (s)he is not accepting the contact. The flash gives the impression that (s)he is, but it is not a true acceptance of the rider's hands, and this is a training issue that needs to be addressed on a deeper level than adding an extra strap.

I'm not criticising you - I know there are exceptions, and I'm sure you are right about your horse! You know her best, after all. This is just my (admittedly not vast) experience. I'd be interested to hear another view

 

[Dubsie]

For those of us who are numpties and too frightened to ask...can one point us in the direction of some pictures of flash nosebands correctly done up and incorrectly done up please?

 

[Beatrice5]

The question I would ask is why do you need one? If the horse is opening his mouth then why? A comfortable happy horse doesn't tend to try to evade the bit in this way. It maybe worth trying a few different bits and to be honest schooling always helps.

We had a little cob mare who always opened her mouth and was hard in the mouth, totally unstoppable and wouldn't even turn. Mum schooled her played with different bits and she is a wonderful, light, easy happy girl now that my novice boys can ride. She had to change her bit often as the level of schooling developed and has gone from a Myler pelham to a nathe snaffle now.

I struggle with the concept of whacking on more and more severe tack when you are not getting to the source of the problem - but thats just my opinion and maybe I am a jelly head dumb ass and I am sure there will be many who tell me so! LOL

 

[leogeorge]

I agree with beatrice5 in that we should be asking why a flash is needed in the first place. Opening the mouth is mostly an evasion of the bit. If a horse is comfortable with the bit/contact, it tends not to open it's mouth. I don't like flashes, correctly fitted or not, as they don't address the cause of the problem, which is often pain.

 

[Sol]

I'd rather see a flash than a crank noseband tbh.

My lad used to get his flash stuck back on for dressage. Why? Because he was a prat and used to bolt. Obviously he couldn't wear a martingale, and the 2 things he used to do when he took off were to throw his head in the air, and open his mouth, entirely evading the bit. With the flash on, he couldn't evade the bit to the same extent, so didn't bother trying meant we could go out & do dressage with far fewer issues! He now just has a plain cavesson
I've also used one on him to encourage him to keep his mouth 'stiller', as he has a very busy mouth, constantly chewing at the bit. The bit wasn't the issue, it's just a habit of his (he just... chews things!) so flash went on and within a few weeks, he pretty much stopped that.

I think it depends on WHY you use the flash too. ie. Some horses are very clever - and very lazy! (I own one of those ) and as the work gets harder, obviously the horse will struggle a little at first with a new exercise and that has to be recognised. However, if horse decides evading the bit by opening it's mouth to avoid that exercise is easier, it is kinder to simply pop a flash on so the horse then realises that that is not acceptable and the exercise can be completed without a fight. When the horse has done the exercise a few times, the flash can be removed. The horse might still find it hard, but realises that it's 'do-able'.
I'd much rather do that than stress the horse out and confuse it

 

[kafrin181995]

The question I would ask is why do you need one? If the horse is opening his mouth then why? A comfortable happy horse doesn't tend to try to evade the bit in this way. It maybe worth trying a few different bits and to be honest schooling always helps.

We had a little cob mare who always opened her mouth and was hard in the mouth, totally unstoppable and wouldn't even turn. Mum schooled her played with different bits and she is a wonderful, light, easy happy girl now that my novice boys can ride. She had to change her bit often as the level of schooling developed and has gone from a Myler pelham to a nathe snaffle now.

I struggle with the concept of whacking on more and more severe tack when you are not getting to the source of the problem - but thats just my opinion and maybe I am a jelly head dumb ass and I am sure there will be many who tell me so! LOL

would you like to see my tackroom???!!!! i must have hundreds of bits - all tried with her...she is a mare who loves the french link hanging snaffle i have her in...not every pony goes well in just a caesson. she is quite happy with flash and bit...just asked what was so wrong with them

 

[Shutterbug]

I have reluctantly put my boy in one a few weeks ago. He is in a french link snaffle for flatwork - he has had back and teeth checked recently and a new saddle and I have tried as many bits as I can with him - he still did it. Popped a flash on, not too tight, not too loose - he's a different horse and I'm not constantly fighting him anymore.

I see no problem with them if they are needed and I avoided using one for years in favuor of trying to school it out of him - it failed sadly

 

[monkeybum13]

There are lots of people that have their bee in a bonnet about almost every single item of tack/ equipment.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
Yes in an ideal world we would all ride in loose rings with cavessons, but we don't live in an ideal world, end of.

 

[Silverspring]

A happy relaxed hore does not open its mouth to evade the bit. My issue with all nosebands other than a correctly fitted caveson (which serves no purpose other than to make the horse's head look pretty) is that the purpose of them is to avoid the need for a well schooled horse. Now before everybody jumps down my throat, I fully appreciate some horses get too excited, as I said a happy RELAXED horse doesn't open it's mouth.

My issue with the flash is that a grackle does the same job and is more comfortable for the horse and less likely to restict its breathing.

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#flash

 

[indiat]

My eight year old daughter's pony has a flash because the little monster only opens her mouth to evade the bit when she wants to TANK! Now we have a flash on her she doesn't even try but just grumpily accepts she has to get on with the job. And as for schooling her out of it, she's old and set in her ways. She knows if she terrorizes children enough, they will get off.

 

[Steorra]

I can see your point Indiat, and of course your daughter's pony needs to be safe for her to ride.

I would be thinking, though, about why she wants to terrorize the children into getting off. When I was a little girl part of the joy of riding for me was creating a partnership with my pony (feel free to be sick, I know it's twee, but true!) I worked really hard on finding ways get my ex-riding school pony to enjoy being ridden - and she was sixteen and certainly 'set in her ways' when my parents bought her for me.

I'm not saying take the flash off straight away and expect your daughter to get on with it of course! But I would say that if a pony doesn't want to be ridden then adding an extra strap to her bridle isn't the long term solution to the issue.

 

[Hippona]

The question I would ask is why do you need one? If the horse is opening his mouth then why? A comfortable happy horse doesn't tend to try to evade the bit in this way. It maybe worth trying a few different bits and to be honest schooling always helps.


I struggle with the concept of whacking on more and more severe tack when you are not getting to the source of the problem - but thats just my opinion and maybe I am a jelly head dumb ass and I am sure there will be many who tell me so! LOL

I absolutely agree with you......if your horse is evading the bit ( ie opening mouth, crossing jaw etc etc).....then it is uncomfortable......so strapping its mouth shut is a quick and lazy fix.

Its taken me a year or more to find a bit my pony is comfortable in.....loads of expense, time and patience......but I could have just kept him in the flash he came with and saved myself the bother. He also came with some white hairs accross his face from a previous owner who couldnt be bothered, and strapped him up too tight. Grrrrr

 

[teddyt]

The question I would ask is why do you need one? If the horse is opening his mouth then why? A comfortable happy horse doesn't tend to try to evade the bit in this way. It maybe worth trying a few different bits and to be honest schooling always helps.

Exactly. In the majority of cases a flash is treating the symptom not the cause.
If i had a pound for every time someone says their horse opens their mouth and someone else says 'use a flash' i'd be loaded! Ive yet to here anyone say 'WHY?'

 

[JenHunt]

The question I would ask is why do you need one? If the horse is opening his mouth then why? A comfortable happy horse doesn't tend to try to evade the bit in this way. It maybe worth trying a few different bits and to be honest schooling always helps.

We had a little cob mare who always opened her mouth and was hard in the mouth, totally unstoppable and wouldn't even turn. Mum schooled her played with different bits and she is a wonderful, light, easy happy girl now that my novice boys can ride. She had to change her bit often as the level of schooling developed and has gone from a Myler pelham to a nathe snaffle now.

I struggle with the concept of whacking on more and more severe tack when you are not getting to the source of the problem - but thats just my opinion and maybe I am a jelly head dumb ass and I am sure there will be many who tell me so! LOL

That's all well and good, but some horses just go better in one than not... It wouldn't matter how much I schooled Ron he'll always do what he does (opens his mouth and ignores me), in fact the more I schooled him the worse it would get as he just finds it difficult and gets upset.

Having said that he goes in a myler snaffle with a flash for everythin except hunting now, when he goes in a double bridle.

 

[indiat]

She has learned to terrorise children because she is an ex riding school pony, who frankly, hated her job. She's a clever old bird and knows every trick in the book, including a very nifty sliding stop. We've had her since last september and she has really come around to us the last couple of months but she is a very strong (physically and mentally) and dominant little mare. We still can't trust her in competition as she goes nuts with excitement (opens the mouth, froths and then charges at a flat out gallop with child clinging on for dear life in pony games) and also has a tendency to bite everything that walks past her when her blood is up. I know she sounds like a horror but my daughter adores her and they have worked very hard over the last few months to bond and Brie does listen more. But they are still not there yet. And while she may not sound like the ideal first pony she was looking at a bullet after biting a child in the face (an unfortunate accident but one that means she could no longer be trusted in the RS). So bullet or flash? I'll go with the flash until her very young rider, who lags behind her mount in YEARS of experience, can get the confidence she needs to rein her in. But we are getting there. *sigh*. And its not that she doesn't enjoy being ridden by my eldest - in the beginning it was evasion when she found the work boring (daughter had a few falls before she twigged that riding large in the arena while chatting to a friend was a big no no with Brie). Now its a case of too much enthusiasm and daughter sitting there and not riding proactivly. But we are getting over the problems, one at a time. Until then, the flash stays on when I know she needs it.

 

[MontyandZoom]

That's all well and good, but some horses just go better in one than not... It wouldn't matter how much I schooled Ron he'll always do what he does (opens his mouth and ignores me), in fact the more I schooled him the worse it would get as he just finds it difficult and gets upset.

Having said that he goes in a myler snaffle with a flash for everythin except hunting now, when he goes in a double bridle.

I'm the first one to get annoyed when people just whack a strong bit and grakle on a horse that actually just needs schooling. HOWEVER I agree with Jen!

Zoom is ex-polo and is very fizzy. She has a very funny mouth since she has been hauled around so much. I have tried lots of bits and, although it's not perfect, she is now much happier in her mouth. However, despite 2 1/2 years of circles and transitions, she still wants to bugger off with me all the time!!

Her polo head is always on and she hates me touching her mouth since all she wants to do is bomb around. She actually goes 10 times better in a flash than a cavesson since she doesn't toss her head around so much. I think that, as long as you haven't just used it as a substitute for schooling, if your horse goes better in a flash then I don't see the problem.

 

[Silverspring]

Ok so everyone who says there horse is just generally happier in a flash/cannot be ridden without a flash: Have you tried a grackle? If not, then why? If yes, was this not as effective as a flash?

 

[MontyandZoom]

Ok so everyone who says there horse is just generally happier in a flash/cannot be ridden without a flash: Have you tried a grackle? If not, then why? If yes, was this not as effective as a flash?

Zoom is ridden in a grakle for jumping as it gives me slightly more control. However, on the flat she has to have a nose net on in the summer, and she can't have this on with the grakle.

 

[monkeybum13]

Ok so everyone who says there horse is just generally happier in a flash/cannot be ridden without a flash: Have you tried a grackle? If not, then why? If yes, was this not as effective as a flash?

A grackle is not BD legal.

 

[Kat1e]

Flashes were invented so people could have the effect of a drop noseband but still use a standing martingale. So if you aren't using a martingale, use a drop not a flash. People seem to use flashes as a fashion accessory, possibly because they seem to come as standard now and some people don't know any better. As already stated they do treat the symptom not the cause. Also, flashes do not sit in a good place on the horses face, drops are more comfy for them so if you have to use one, use a drop. Just my opinion.

 

[Steorra]

She has learned to terrorise children because she is an ex riding school pony, who frankly, hated her job. She's a clever old bird and knows every trick in the book, including a very nifty sliding stop. We've had her since last september and she has really come around to us the last couple of months but she is a very strong (physically and mentally) and dominant little mare. We still can't trust her in competition as she goes nuts with excitement (opens the mouth, froths and then charges at a flat out gallop with child clinging on for dear life in pony games) and also has a tendency to bite everything that walks past her when her blood is up. I know she sounds like a horror but my daughter adores her and they have worked very hard over the last few months to bond and Brie does listen more. But they are still not there yet. And while she may not sound like the ideal first pony she was looking at a bullet after biting a child in the face (an unfortunate accident but one that means she could no longer be trusted in the RS). So bullet or flash? I'll go with the flash until her very young rider, who lags behind her mount in YEARS of experience, can get the confidence she needs to rein her in. But we are getting there. *sigh*. And its not that she doesn't enjoy being ridden by my eldest - in the beginning it was evasion when she found the work boring (daughter had a few falls before she twigged that riding large in the arena while chatting to a friend was a big no no with Brie). Now its a case of too much enthusiasm and daughter sitting there and not riding proactivly. But we are getting over the problems, one at a time. Until then, the flash stays on when I know she needs it.

If there are sides on this, I suspect we are on the same one

Cup of tea and a biccy?

 

[annaellie]

When I first started with horses and for many years after bridles came with a bog stander ed cavasson and you had to really search for a flash noseband or buy a flash converter. I have used flash's and knew the reason why I was using my horse that I used it on had all sorts of bits and his evading was behavioral not because he was uncomfortable.
He also evaded work in loads of other ways to Also when he was being taught knew things he didnt understand to start with so would evade. After lots of work we changed his behavior and the flash was removed. I would rather people moan at me for a quick fix and have control well some when I was riding my 17.2 brute.

 

[jaypeebee]

All of my horses go in cavessons. There is no need for them to wear cavessons. Even if they were *fashion accessories* I would still ride them in cavessons. I dont mind what people ride their horses in and if a correctly fitted flash is what they choose to use and the horse is happy in this noseband then where is the problem. If the horse does not need a flash noseband then its simple the flash will do nothing detrimental to the horse. I think some people enjoy being judgemental and like to put people down for doing things differently to themselves. Me, I couldnt give a fig.