What is Un-aff SJ comming to?

PaddyMonty

PaddyMonty

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Back when I were a lad (yes a long time ago) the 3'6" class at the local shows was always hotly contested.
Over the years the biggest class (Height wise) seems to have reduced and now 3' seems to be the norm.

Last night I took the ginger one out to un-aff SJ jsut to get a run in before his first BE after all the stressage stuff we've been doing lately. The last 2 classes were 95cm and 1.05cm

The only entry in the 95cm was me
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The nice organiser type person offered me two schooling rounds (over 14 fence course) for the cost of the class entry (£8). They even changed the course from a standard un-aff to BSJA sized course with wide spreads and put fences up to height I wanted. What nice people
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I expected there to be only 2 or 3 in the 1.05 but to only have me entered in the 95cm was a bit of a shock.
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On a positive note the boy will be running disco next time out
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well where i go the 95 always has about 40+ in it! then the 105cm has about 10-15.
however i went to a premier sjing somewhere near me and there were 2 entries in the 110 me and me! an djust one of mine in the 115 so i just schooled round it! its a shame because i thought it was a marvellous idea to have unaff up to 120 but maybe other people dont !
 
That was at Port Royal?, wasn't it. They ran an unaff series over the spring/summer up to Foxhunter height aimed mostly at eventers who didn't want to pay for BSJA except that there was no-one to jump 110 or over! There was only usually me in it when I went too. I thought it was a fab idea.


I'm going to do an unaff small open and open on Fri night (3' and 3'3) and I expect there to be under 10 entires in the small open and under 5 in the open. We'll see if I'm proved wrong!

It's good for your rosette collection though!
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I would love to see some bigger classes for unaffil.... most of the local shows round here only go up to 3ft, and even then, its a tidly 3ft!! Was shocked to see a riding club show had its open class at 2ft9!!

Think I just am expected to be made of money and pay both BE and BSJA fees to get any decent rounds in
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I guess what I'm really wondering is Why?
What has caused this downturn in jumping ability at un-aff (and riding skill in general)?
Are more people going BSJA instead?
Are the general horsey population becomming more cautious (being nice about it).
Has all the H&S crap killed the 'have a go' mentality that used to abound?
 
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That is exactly why we affiliated.

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I did too, but have had to let it slip this year as I couldn't afford to renew it. Unfortunately the BSJA classes tend to hit the other extreme with up to 50 in BN and disco (fewer the bigger you go).

Where's the happy medium???
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Not sure on this one, and I am sure it's not just the rosy glow of nostalgia but 'back in the day' I didn't know anyone who jumped affiliated, they all did the local unaff circuit and the opens were HUGE!!! Even now 3' on the schedule tends to be 2'9 in reality and never as wide or solid as an aff course of the same height.
 
I think it's a shame that there aren't any bigger classes to have a go at unaff, we haven't done a lot yet, but last year the opens were cancelled due to not enough entries at nearly every place we went to, and the ones that were run were certainly a very small 2ft9! I've seen some very badly built courses unaff too, I'd rather go BSJA and know I had an up to height and well built course I think
 
I know, we went to a decent venue near us for the trailblazers 95cm and 1.05cm. There was 3 of us in the 95cm and no-one else except me in the 1.05cm!!
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But then went to another venue last week and thee were a few more in the 95cm, but again only 3 of us in the 1.05m?! Madness!!

ETA the open at our RC show always used to be a full up 3'6 when I was about 12/13, but now is about 2'9
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You should come to local shows near us. My daughter was going to take a friends pony in the pony novice and the jumps were as big as the pony! This was for 12 years and under.
On Sunday my eldest daughter booked in for the novice class with a horse she has been schooling and they were humongous. She did not go in so as not to put the poor horse off.
I think we need to move
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I agree, the Open was always a good 3'6 at local shows and was filled as much as the Absolute Novice class at the beginning of the day.

Sounds a really nice run show
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YAY for Ginger Boy, hes really turning into an exciting chap.

Vx
 
I totally agree. All my local shows have a max of about 3ft with less entries..... except my fave RC show, which goes up to 3'6, full of fillers and exellent for testing your horse!
I think its H&S timefaulter.... think people are much more interested in self preservation and the rest affiliate!
 
I don't jump really but my view on it is this.
It seems to me that peer pressure on teenagers is getting worse and therefore they think they 'have' to affiliate to prove how good they are to everyone else. When I was younger everyone used to go unaff and have a good time and it wasn't until you were winning everything that parents could be persuaded to pay to affiliate to BSJA.
However now the teenagers want to affiliate because that means they are so much better than everyone else and the parents don't know how to say 'no'.
It's a vicious circle in my opinion and is the reason the bigger classes are empty at unaff and the smaller classes at BSJA are big.
Also explains why the heights at local RC are getting smaller as they are getting more entrants, rather than running bigger classes and getting none!
 
Its the same in our area. My RC runs an small open at 3'3 and a big open at 3'6 and we only get max of 5 in each class. We are also the biggest in the area - every other local show has their opens at 3 foot. It does make it hard if you want to go out jumping and there is no BSJA on
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Its the same in our area. My RC runs an small open at 3'3 and a big open at 3'6 and we only get max of 5 in each class. We are also the biggest in the area - every other local show has their opens at 3 foot. It does make it hard if you want to go out jumping and there is no BSJA on
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That has been pony novice at a couple of local shows we have been to. Not going again. It does not give young ponies a good start.
 
A combination of a few things perhaps?

Back in the very olden days (before my time)! didn't BSJA used to start at Newcomer height? So no BN, Discovery and all the small open classes. So I'd imagine people had to stay unaffiliated for longer, or stay unaffiliated if they weren't going to get to Newcomer level.

Now with the BSJA making classes smaller and smaller it is possible for many more people to join, plus more disposable income, credit etc than years ago?

It is a shame though. Kent County used to run a RC competition in the main ring which was 1.10. I only did it once but it was great jumping in the main ring at a county show. It's now been reduced to 1m and I think, moved to a side ring.
 
Local show jumping classes have gone down hill, I can remember going to my local shows and there would be about 10-20 of you in the Open class and you alway had a really good class and it was always up to height 3'6".
 
Is it the money element? You can only win £10 elsewhere if you affiliate, which is the BSJA's way of stopping any competing bopdies from forming (shame!)

Then usually when you go unaffiliated you can only expect to win back your entry fee.

I went unaffiliated this sunday and there were 4 in the '3ft to 3ft3"' and 2 in the '3ft3 to 3ft 6"' (someone else took pity on me and jumped so it could run!). The latter class was only 1m in the jump off... so was tiny!
 
Iwouldn't want to pay the money and risk the humiliation of going BSJA unless I was pretty confident that swamp donkey could get his butt round a decent 3ft3 course, but finding one to try proves somewhat difficult!
 
Oddly, it's pretty much the same all over (or at least in North America) so it's not a "UK thing". The "schooling" (equivalent to un-aff) used to have big classes at fairly serious heights but that's uncommon now, especially in heavily populated areas where there are lots of shows to choose from.

I think flower has hit on a major point - the aff ("recognised" in NA) now offer more "starter" classes which attract a lot more people into the system earlier in the process (which is the point). This also allows professionals to take their young horses along with their more established horses, rather than taking them to separate shows. (The chance to compete against some of these people on a more level playing field used to be quite a draw!)

To be fair, I think people's standards have risen, too, and they are less inclined to put up with uneven expectations now there are more options. Just looking at this thread you can see how widely the un-affiliated shows differ in class and jump size, but we all know they are also often unreliable with regard to footing, course design etc. Shows run "under rules" have to meet more predictable standards so it's easier to know what you're getting in advance and plan accordingly. When we didn't have options people were more likely to go and see but with things being more expensive and generally organised these days fewer people want to go to shows where they might risk a bad experience or even a "wasted" day.
 
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To be fair, I think people's standards have risen, too, and they are less inclined to put up with uneven expectations now there are more options. Just looking at this thread you can see how widely the un-affiliated shows differ in class and jump size, but we all know they are also often unreliable with regard to footing, course design etc. Shows run "under rules" have to meet more predictable standards so it's easier to know what you're getting in advance and plan accordingly. When we didn't have options people were more likely to go and see but with things being more expensive and generally organised these days fewer people want to go to shows where they might risk a bad experience or even a "wasted" day.

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I think that is very true too. Again we are one of the only unaffiliated shows in the area to use BSJA judges and course builder. However we are limited with where we can hold our shows so sometimes our ground isn't great. The problem is the places with decent surfaces in the area are all to expensive for local RCs and only BSJA can afford to hold shows there.
 
Stop the H&S crap - lack of entries is NOTHING to do with H&S.

Although perhaps it has, if the quality of the ground and course is better affiliated then people may be choosing that on grounds of H&S for their horse without even realising they are doing a risk assessment.

And if people do not turn up for large classes events will not run them - basic business
 
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Stop the H&S crap - lack of entries is NOTHING to do with H&S.


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Oh really? So you would say that riding schools are free to give the same opportunities to novice riders as they used to?
I dont think so
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Just the paper work that has to be done for a simple (no injury) fall will affect how much freedom riders are allowed compared to 20 years ago. Lets not get in to risk assesmenst for every conceiveable activity etc.

BTW do you by any chance work in H&S?
 
We had to affiliate my daughter who is 13 due to lack of classes on the unaffiliated circuit. Many a time we turned up to do the open classes which are only 2ft9 and 3ft and hardly anybody was entered, so we have taken the plunge and done a few junior bsja shows and they have been fab, proper spreads and up to height, it is such a shame that unaff jumping shows seem to have gone down hill so much, as a child myself many moons ago there were so many more classes and opens went upto 3ft6.
 
I know I would much rather take any of my lot BSJA than go to a local show, few reasons why,
1. If i take a lorry BSJA and they have intro classes I can jump round youngsters round a decent but inviting track and get them started properly, I know distances will be correct and so in theory they shouldn't run in to trouble from dodgy doubles ect. A lot of shows round here also offer free tickets to ride so I can jump a youngster ona ticket free, before even registering it.
2. I know that by going BSJA the ground will be good, I know I won't be jumping on concrete at the venues I go to and I also know if a class will be in an arena or not.
3. I know that at the BSJA there are set rules, if a competitor ata local show dosen't like something, they can kick up a right stink, at BSJA because theres a huge rule book, its much less likely. I also can be suree of what theses rules are before entering!

I don't see why anyone would bother with unaff jumping unless its tiny and for real youngsters, when BSJA have so much to offer. I can also go BSJA during the week when its quieter and there might only be 10 or so in the BN.
 
Around us the unaff goes to 3ft at Badgworth and are usually very poorly built as designed for ponies as that is who most of the entrants are. Usually 4 in that class. In 2'6 there are usually 30.

At Hand it is manic for the 2'3 - 2'9 classes then usually 5-10 in the 3'0 and 3-5 in 3'3 and then 2-3 in 3'6 if lucky. For me its the time as the 2'6 never ends till about 8pm then 2'9 finishes at 9pm which just gets too late when you have to work the next day. They do run day time unaff sometimes but again bigger classes rarely run.

I agree its because aff embraces everyone now whereas before you had to be a certain standard to go aff so would use un-aff as a starting point.
 
Local unaff SJ around here tends to have 70/80/90/1m classes, but a few will do a 1.10 at the end. Usually only the eventers in it though, everyone else who can jump that height has affiliated.

FIona
 
Eeh when I was girl, local shows generally had 3'6" opens some had 4' opens and once you were doing well in those you started affiliated at Newcomers and then Foxhunters, with not a lot in between. It was really something to actually jump affiliated if like me you were a one horse amateur and even then we used to mix affiliated and good unaffiliated. Lots of the show centres used to run unaffiliated with same course builders, same ground etc as for affiliated and even the local shows had decent builders. Even further back in time, I can remember and this is not with rose tinted glasses winning an adult open over a 4' course on my 13.2 pony - we made all the local papers! Now I am not competent to even jump a cross pole and stick purely to looking glamorous in the show ring....
 
I'm a BSJA judge, but also judge unaffiated comps to in Kent. More often than not, when I'm doing Trailblazers, we only just scrape a class together for the 95cm, and usually cancel the 1.05m, due to lack of interested.

Our courses are always built by a BSJA course builder. I think people are less brave, and if we do run them, it's normally with the affiliated riders bringing their babies out.
 
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