What is wrong with giving a healthy horse away?

all about Romeo said:
I agree it can be a shady area under some circumstances... However I really do believe that it can have a happy outcome...
I find it so sad when an owner has a horse that is old and/or injured but can no longer keep it (for what ever reason) so has it PTS instead of re-homing it (either on loan or given away)
It seems may people put the horse down as an easy option (I am not talking about horses that are in pain and need to be PTS)
Ideally we would all keep our horses until they died naturally or come to the point were they needed to be PTS, when did horses become disposable?
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it can have a happy outcome for a rideable horse, i have 2 that i was given and they will be with me for the rest of their days, if i can no longer keep one of them there is a contract in place that he returns to his old owner, if for some reason that isn't possible then there is only 1 person who i would trust to have him and that is the girl that rides him currently, the horse is a sensitive soul and this girl has clicked with him, i would not trust anyone else to not try and beat that sensitivity out of him:( the other one i was given is a big 17hh mare, lumps ,bumps and scars, wonky front leg and a rather grumpy disposition doesn't make her ideal rehoming material, plus she's now rising 17 so no spring chicken, again if i couldn't keep her i would contact her old owner but i doubt her finances would allow to her to take her back, in that case i would consider that pTS was probably the kinder option than being passed pillar to post.
it would not be an easy decision and i certainly don't view any of mine as disposable, i actually think few people do rather than the many that you suggest.
 
how anyone can say pts is the easy option has prob not been there...ive been through it 3 times and it was definately not the easy option!!!!!! my horse is kept as well as a competiition horse but is only a happy hacker. when she cannot be ridden her care will be the same and this will continue as long as she has a good quality of life . there is no way she would be palmed off on someone else so i could get a rideable horse, as far as i am concerned its my resonsibility to look after her for life....
 
It's a cop out, that's why, certainly if it's a healthy but lame horse.

If you once chose a horse, bought a horse or a horse somehow ended up with you such that you were its keeper, then your responsibility lies with that horse.

You've only got to read the threads in "stolen horses" to realise that all people do not necessarily have your, or your horse's, best interests at heart.

I have a horse who is to going to go shortly. He's going to go with me holding him in familiar surroundings, not in some god forsaken abbattoir or a ship en route to the continent.

You have to do the right thing by your horse/dog/cat - not hope that somebody else will ultimately do it for you.

As Pedantic so often says....."Nation of........oles"
 
all about Romeo said:
By healthy I mean a horse who is not in constant pain, is a healthy weight and is bright in its self and full of life
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So one that isn't ill then?

I couldn't put a healthy horse to sleep unless circumstances were dire but equally I refused to give a horse away FTGH.
 
Ibblebibble said:
it can have a happy outcome for a rideable horse, i have 2 that i was given and they will be with me for the rest of their days, if i can no longer keep one of them there is a contract in place that he returns to his old owner, if for some reason that isn't possible then there is only 1 person who i would trust to have him and that is the girl that rides him currently, the horse is a sensitive soul and this girl has clicked with him, i would not trust anyone else to not try and beat that sensitivity out of him:( the other one i was given is a big 17hh mare, lumps ,bumps and scars, wonky front leg and a rather grumpy disposition doesn't make her ideal rehoming material, plus she's now rising 17 so no spring chicken, again if i couldn't keep her i would contact her old owner but i doubt her finances would allow to her to take her back, in that case i would consider that pTS was probably the kinder option than being passed pillar to post.
it would not be an easy decision and i certainly don't view any of mine as disposable, i actually think few people do rather than the many that you suggest.
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That is good to hear... :)
All the horses I have had have been given to me by people who no longer wanted them, I have been so lucky as they have all been amazing! I lost one at the age of 25, one at the age of 34, had some ponies from the meat man one heavily pregnant, all now pony club ponies :):) and helped to rehome many others...
The TB I have now was given to me straight off the track, had him 3 years and he has never put a foot wrong :)

I have come across many people who do view horses as disposable :/ which breaks my heart.
 
Not all horses are old knackered that are given away. I agree with everyone else in the fact that giving an oldie away isn't on, I have taken on 5 horses that were all older but still healthy and happy, I still have some now and I am glad I took them on and gave then Many more years if happy life and riding. The ones that have been given away in the past have all gone on and are still with owners living healthy happy life's. It's not always a recipe for disaster, however I agree with others I wouldn't just advertise a horse as free to good home and let whoever take it, that would not be responsible. One of mine went to a university and is now being used to teach new student vets about heart conditions for example (she had an uncommon heart murmur) and is only 9yrs old. ... You have to be VERY careful though and I agree you can never be sure they will all live happily ever After but that really is the same for majority of horses that are sold on too IMO.
 
I think it is more seeing the horse as disposable if you pass it on really, as you can assume all will be well and they will live out their days happily, but you don't have to take responsibility for making sure that happens. I think it is really sad when people have horses all their lives and palm them off when they're old just so they don't have to deal with the future :-(
 
all about Romeo said:
I have come across many people who do view horses as disposable :/ which breaks my heart.
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I'm sure that's true. It's the same with other animals, how many people do you meet who still don't think "a dog is for life"? :(

But I don't think it's fair to think that responsible owners who choose to have their elderly/lame/unsalable horse pts rather than take the (definitely!) easier option of giving them away, are taking a soft option.
 
YorksG said:
Given that a lot of these horses are given away because the current owner wants a riding horse and the old one is not of any use any more, then why would anyone expect someone else to take them on? It seems to me that these are the owners who are taking the easy way out, rather than spending the money on their retirees, or making the decision to pts, they take the cop out of trying to get someone else to foot the bills for them.
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Absolutely. What is wrong with people?

However is it really and truly, in the long run, the easy way out? The guilt might come back and bite them when they're least expecting it. Think on.....
 
Milanesa said:
Not all horses are old knackered that are given away. I agree with everyone else in the fact that giving an oldie away isn't on, I have taken on 5 horses that were all older but still healthy and happy, I still have some now and I am glad I took them on and gave then Many more years if happy life and riding. The ones that have been given away in the past have all gone on and are still with owners living healthy happy life's. It's not always a recipe for disaster, however I agree with others I wouldn't just advertise a horse as free to good home and let whoever take it, that would not be responsible. One of mine went to a university and is now being used to teach new student vets about heart conditions for example (she had an uncommon heart murmur) and is only 9yrs old. ... You have to be VERY careful though and I agree you can never be sure they will all live happily ever After but that really is the same for majority of horses that are sold on too IMO.
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Im slighty confused... :confused:
You say giving an old horse away is not on but then say you have had some given to you... That is exactly what I am talking about... people rehoming (in this case older) horses to people like you and me who will look after them for the rest of their days :)
Of course I don't agree with people advertising free to go home and letting anyone take it... that is very irresponsible!
What I am saying is that surely there could be life beyond a bullet if there was a chance the horse could continue having a happy, good quality of life.
 
all about Romeo said:
Im slighty confused... :confused:
You say giving an old horse away is not on but then say you have had some given to you... That is exactly what I am talking about... people rehoming (in this case older) horses to people like you and me who will look after them for the rest of their days :)
Of course I don't agree with people advertising free to go home and letting anyone take it... that is very irresponsible!
What I am saying is that surely there could be life beyond a bullet if there was a chance the horse could continue having a happy, good quality of life.
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But thats the point...its only a chance....obviously if people could rehome to a trustworthy friend then they would....but that just doesn't happen very often.

You are the exception...you look after some older horses, that is fantastic, I currently keep my retired mare in full livery when many told me to PTS 10 years ago...but I would not be able to take on anyone elses.
 
all about Romeo said:
You all have very valid points and I completely understand why you would have serious doubts...
So what is the difference between selling a horse and giving it away? (any horse) (apart from money changing hands)
Surely it could end up in exactly the same uncertain future...?
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Because by giving it away you are implying that it has no monetary value. If you sell it, then at least you can give the new owner the impression that the horse is good at something and hope that your expectations come to fruition.

However, if your horse is lame and unable to function without medication, then it actually enters the minus value bracket That's unless you would calcuate its value in meat. Then you could actually sell it, if you were a hard hearted individual and had withdrawn its medication, for probably more than it would cost you to have it put down.

But what's wrong with your horse being your friend? My two are a right royal PITA, but they are loved more than I think they realise, the stupid old "things".

NOAH
 
Parker79 said:
But thats the point...its only a chance....obviously if people could rehome to a trustworthy friend then they would....but that just doesn't happen very often.

You are the exception...you look after some older horses, that is fantastic, I currently keep my retired mare in full livery when many told me to PTS 10 years ago...but I would not be able to take on anyone elses.
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Agree with this. I have a 28yo and a 15yo both field ornaments the aged mare id had for years and the other retired as a 6yo through illness, both are maintained on danilon have their teeth done, wormed fed and cared for extremely well. I also have my riding horse, if i didnt have the 3 id have another event horse, but i owe my horses and i am responsible for their care .... If for whatever reason i couldnt afford them my aged and unsound but pain free horses would be pts and my riding horse would go on grass livery till i found my feet, that doesnt make me a cruel owner disposing of them when theyre of no use to anyone, it makes me a responsible owner who would be heartbroken at having to do it, but knowing id done what was best rather than giving them an uncertain future.
I really am struggling to understand why the op cant see past the end of her nose on the issue of having horses like this pts in preference to a possibly horrendous fate if passed on
 
I loan my ponies out and even when you vet the homes some people seem to think its OK to skimp on their loanee. I have a contract where vet fees are discussed and I pay for vaccinations.
I would never give anyone a horse. Human nature being what it is,its amazing how people rationalise their behavoir and somehow the freebie ends up the loser or down the road because it doesn't fit in to this weeks plan.
I have just bought an older brood mare and taken one on loan, I will treat them exactly the same the only difference being if there is a problem I will contact the owner of the loanee for advice.
I am amazed how many people do not plan a head. Food wise I plan 6months in advance, horse wise years in advance. Yes stuff happens but its not rocket science, if you have sex you get babies, if you've got a teenager they are going to give up when they get boyfriends Gse's, your horse is going to get old, ill, make a plan now and do not wait for s**t to happen.
I try not to feel sorry for any horse, that seems heartless but getting something you feel sorry for is a reciepe for disaster, you wouldn't pick a husband or partner because he was a waife and stray and no one wanted him. Having a horses to me is a bit like marriage, your got to love them at the start because when it come to the tough times you have to think of the good times.
I have a three year old I felt sorry for. He was the most ugly foal I had ever seen and was weaned at 31/2 months. He is now a striking cob, but he's still not my ideal man
 
Parker79 said:
But thats the point...its only a chance....obviously if people could rehome to a trustworthy friend then they would....but that just doesn't happen very often.

You are the exception...you look after some older horses, that is fantastic, I currently keep my retired mare in full livery when many told me to PTS 10 years ago...but I would not be able to take on anyone elses.
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That is great :)
If people didn't give away horses to strangers though I wouldn't have anything to be given...
I have had all sorts of horses/ ponies of the years that were no longer wanted and I have been soooo lucky! They have all had amazing temperaments but if they had not ended up with me what would have happened to them? I dread to think!
Well done for sticking with your mare, she is lucky to have you x
 
Is like to wade on this as I have "gifted" a horse to a friend. He is 15 years old, could be considered aged by some, but he isn't. He has as much health as a four year old.

I gave him away for free. Why? He went to the perfect home, a friend who looks after him amazingly and I couldn't have asked for more.

Why didn't I ask for money? Because my horse was a friend to me, he didn't owe me anything and i didnt wish to have money for him when I owed it to my friend in a way for providing the perfect home.
 
I really am struggling to understand why the op cant see past the end of her nose on the issue of having horses like this pts in preference to a possibly horrendous fate if passed on[/QUOTE]

erm exceuse me! I think you will find I started this discussion asking what people thought not giving anyone a lecture or telling anyone what to do with their horse!!! so less of the personal insults... I wanted to know why people think and feel like this.
 
all about Romeo said:
That is good to hear... :)
All the horses I have had have been given to me by people who no longer wanted them, I have been so lucky as they have all been amazing! I lost one at the age of 25, one at the age of 34, had some ponies from the meat man one heavily pregnant, all now pony club ponies :):) and helped to rehome many others...
The TB I have now was given to me straight off the track, had him 3 years and he has never put a foot wrong :)
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So you don't keep them either? THAT is why so many people would rather PTS then 'rehome'; you're just passing problems onto other people.

It boils down to money.

Why would you give a horse with value away? People rarely do, they SELL them so horses given away are usually worthless(financially). Sometimes it's because they just need time and effort to fix (ex racers for example) but usually they are permanently unridable. People do not take nearly as much care of something with no value as they would something valuable :( That's the difference between selling and giving away.

Money is the driving force behind pretty much everything. Like most people, if I'm pouring huge amounts of money into my hobby, I expect something in return: riding. I do not want someone elses cast-off broken horses so why would anyone else?!

If the horse has given me something (riding time) it is MY resposnsibility to care for it for the rest of it's life. If the horse cannot go onto give someone else something (riding time), WHY would they want to spend so much time and effort on it?! And why on earth should I expect someone else to do something I'm not wanting to? :eek:

If you care about your horse, you want to know it's got a safe happy secure future. SELLING gives the horse VAULE and VALUE helps ensure it's cared for. Giving away relies entirely on the new owner being willing to put time and money in with little or no return


Classic example:

Kalli is a 16.3hh 10yr old of really nice looking HW hunter. Her behaviour deteriorated so much under saddle that she was too dangerous to ride. However her owner couldn't afford two horses and wanted a ridden horse. Should she have just 'given her away' or had her PTS? How could it be gaurenteed that no-one every tried to ride her again? There was nothing outwardly wrong with her but she'd have killed someone easily. What would you have done?
 
Nothing at all. A perfectly healthy horse with a viable future and a lot to offer. To give it away to someone deserving rather than whoever stumps up a specified amount of cash is a very kind and noble thing to do IMO.

To give away a horse that is never going to be right, never going to go to a show, never going to be able to take its person for a gallop into the sunset, never going to be anything more than a walking vet/ physio/ farrier/ psychic/ counsellor bill is irresponsible because most experienced, knowledgeable horsepeople would run a mile from taking on such a horse. The people who say "yes please" to being offered this sort of horse are, not always but usually, looking to use the horse to make money, or are totally clueless about what maintaining the horse will cost and about horse care in general.

A horse doesn't have to be 100% healthy to be saleable, but it shouldn't be far off. It has to be willing and able to do a job for it to have a good chance of a safe future if it changes hands.
 
all about Romeo said:
erm exceuse me! I think you will find I started this discussion asking what people thought not giving anyone a lecture or telling anyone what to do with their horse!!! so less of the personal insults... I wanted to know why people think and feel like this.
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Seriously, you think that was insulting? :confused: You are asking people for their opinions, and you are getting them. A lot of people seem to think, as I do, that your opinions are extremely naive given today's economy.

Personally I don't think you are in any way wanting to understand anyone else's viewpoint as you seem entirely closed minded on the subject.

Simple equation

Number of horses needing homes > good homes available for horses

The numbers are not likely to even up in the foreseeable future, so there will always be a surplus. Some will go for slaughter, some will end up being abused and neglected, some will be lucky enough to find caring homes, and some will be pts by their owners. Welcome to the real world!
 
all about Romeo said:
I really am struggling to understand why the op cant see past the end of her nose on the issue of having horses like this pts in preference to a possibly horrendous fate if passed on
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erm exceuse me! I think you will find I started this discussion asking what people thought not giving anyone a lecture or telling anyone what to do with their horse!!! so less of the personal insults... I wanted to know why people think and feel like this.[/QUOTE]

Erm ive been listening to your judgemental remarks on other threads around this very subject, that is why i passed comment, and that isnt an insult its fact, you are failing to understand why people pts in these circumstances, thinking that there is a never ending stream of people who will take old or infirm horses, well yes your right there is, but any self respecting owner wont want there horse to go to them, as they tend to come to a sticky end.
Your definition of a healthy horse is also a bit skewd imo
 
Kallibear said:
People do not take nearly as much care of something with no value as they would something valuable :( That's the difference between selling and giving away.
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Precisely. Much in the same way numpties may trash a car they've stolen but not trash one they've bought.
 
I used to think people were cruel to say pts a healthy but old or unrideable horse rather than rehoming, up until I was about 15 & went to an auction. That was enough to convince me there are far worse things than pts.
I have a lucky pony, who's dam was a free to good home. But what that pony suffered before we got her, along with her dam, is still happening to far more horses & ponies than the ones who get lucky. Given the choice, I'd rather have paid a lot of money for her rather than know how hard her first year of life was.
 
Kallibear said:
So you don't keep them either? THAT is why so many people would rather PTS then 'rehome'; you're just passing problems onto other people.
Money is the driving force behind pretty much everything. Like most people, if I'm pouring huge amounts of money into my hobby, I expect something in return: riding. I do not want someone elses cast-off broken horses so why would anyone else?!
If the horse has given me something (riding time) it is MY resposnsibility to care for it for the rest of it's life. If the horse cannot go onto give someone else something (riding time), WHY would they want to spend so much time and effort on it?! And why on earth should I expect someone else to do something I'm not wanting to?
Classic example:
Kalli is a 16.3hh 10yr old of really nice looking HW hunter. Her behaviour deteriorated so much under saddle that she was too dangerous to ride. However her owner couldn't afford two horses and wanted a ridden horse. Should she have just 'given her away' or had her PTS? How could it be gaurenteed that no-one every tried to ride her again? There was nothing outwardly wrong with her but she'd have killed someone easily. What would you have done?
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Yes I kept my oldies until the end, the young ponies were offered child riding homes and are still there now and the others I have helped rehome with other people (were not in my direct care) and now have my TB
I think that is a terrible way to look at a horse... expecting something in return and is exactly the mentality that I can not understand.
If I could never ride my TB again it would not affect whether or not he stays with me.
I am sure there are more people like me who are happy to take on difficult, older or slightly injured horses (not in constant pain)
I would have put her down if unable to be retrained as she was dangerous.
 
rhino said:
Seriously, you think that was insulting? :confused: You are asking people for their opinions, and you are getting them. A lot of people seem to think, as I do, that your opinions are extremely naive given today's economy.

Personally I don't think you are in any way wanting to understand anyone else's viewpoint as you seem entirely closed minded on the subject.

You are right I am asking for peoples opinions and I am listening to them, but my opinion is still just a valid as everyone else s not naive just because it is different... I am fully aware of what the economy is like.
If I was not interested in anyone else s thoughts I would not have started the discussion.

There is no need for personal insults though.
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Flame_ said:
Nothing at all. A perfectly healthy horse with a viable future and a lot to offer. To give it away to someone deserving rather than whoever stumps up a specified amount of cash is a very kind and noble thing to do IMO.

Thank you flame this is my point exactly.
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