What is wrong with my boy...

[doris2008]

Hi folks I'm after some thoughts from you! It might get a bit lengthy but please stick with me! I have a 7yr old section D. Had him 6 months or so.
About 6 weeks ago I had my first proper flat work lesson with him. Although a bit bolshy at times and nappy he has generally been fine. Nappiness resolved with a bit of a slap and a growl. He worked well and instructor adjusted me a fair bit. All of a sudden down long side in nice trot something felt 'wrong' behind and he immediately went straight up and off all fours spinning on landing (the spin decked me!). Afterwards saddle looked twisted. He was very twitchy and swishy. Instructor agreed definitely pain reaction.
Has sarcoid on inside hind leg at top which had been growing. Suspected this or saddle issue.
Week later he had laser surgery on two sarcoids. Left big holes! He's has teeth looked at - fine. Thermographer checked back. A lot of pain around shoulders but nothing else major. She wasn't happy with saddle so had another saddler out who agreed it was not a good fit. Saddle replaced.
Brought him back into work this week. There is still some residual healing to happen from the surgery but he seems sound.
When ridden he seems fine some of the time but other times he's swishing, back is up, twitchy around withers area. Then fine again. He's planting and not wanting to move. Then fine again. He does have attitude and we have a definite napping issue but something feels different and I just can't put my finger on it.
I'm going to try him bareback tomorrow and see how he reacts. And saddler back again.
Short of that maybe another couple of weeks off to definitely be sure it's not healing related?
Not sure what path to go down next! Help!

 

[maisie06]

I would have the vet do a full soundness work up before starting down the saddler route, it's not uncommon for horses to be uncomfortable due to subtle lameness making their back sore, exspecially suspensory problems - these go hand in hand with sore backs.

 

[doris2008]

Sorry forgot to mention vet did check him out soundness wise whilst we were looking at sarcoids - after the rearing episode. Pronounced sound.

 

[maisie06]

Full work up or just on the straight? I only ask as mine was sound in a straight line but lame on the lunge on a circle, had him blocked and scanned and found his suspensories were beyond repair.....

 

[be positive]

Apart from the saddle change and rest what has been done about the shoulder pain? it may get better without help but often just rest is not enough for the muscles to recover if the saddle has been wrong for some time, it may be the saddle has caused all the trouble but there could be another underlying reason, vet then physio would be the way forward or if your vet is happy to refer get an ACPAT physio in to treat him, if he does not respond then get the vet.

 

[alliwantforchristmas]

be careful if he is still napping/has an attitude. i think think of it more as a pain response, he could easily have another 'moment' and you could end up coming off him again. i agree with the others it needs more exploring and treatment. sounds like he has been generous tbh and given you lots of warning there is a problem before he dumped you.

 

[doris2008]

Sound on trot up and sound on lunge on circle.
He's a classic bolshy d - a lot of behaviour can be put down to his general mannerisms. I don't believe before the episode there were other warning signs.
However the twitching/swishing isn't him.
Thermographer is also chiro and did some laser work on shoulders and withers. She also worked over any other areas showing tightness. However those were all minimal. I suspect wither/shoulder issues were for previous saddle which was apparently too tight in front along with points being too short. And was 'professionally' fitted 😡
Thanks so far guys.

 

[be positive]

Did she just use the laser or do hands on work as well? many therapists are now using machines to do the work and the results are not as good as the hands on approach, my physio was talking about it last time she was here and was not very complimentary in her comments, lasers have their place as do all the various gadgets but a physio has trained on people before going onto animals and can get feedback on the results.
I would get him checked again as it is unlikely one session has fixed the damage and most good therapists will expect a follow up visit even if there is nothing to do they should check to make sure, if they have not responded as expected then they need to know and possibly refer back to the vet.

 

[Equestrienne]

Hiya,

Could be a reaction to the expectation of pain. Even if he's no longer sore there may be a certain 'movement' that used to give him pain but doesn't anymore. But of course he doesn't know that it won't hurt anymore and so reacts. I guess kind of like how an abused horse will always flinch and quick movements.

I would suggest to be paitent, but quite firm. When he tenses you should relax everything, show him with your body that there's nothing to worry about, and he should soften and relax, and repeat repeat repeat.

 

[doris2008]

Did she just use the laser or do hands on work as well? many therapists are now using machines to do the work and the results are not as good as the hands on approach, my physio was talking about it last time she was here and was not very complimentary in her comments, lasers have their place as do all the various gadgets but a physio has trained on people before going onto animals and can get feedback on the results.
I would get him checked again as it is unlikely one session has fixed the damage and most good therapists will expect a follow up visit even if there is nothing to do they should check to make sure, if they have not responded as expected then they need to know and possibly refer back to the vet.

Yes she did some massage work with him too. When she initially looked at that area the moment she pressed he hit the roof. By the end of the session he didn't react at all. She showed me how to check him over and see how he reacted and there is still nothing but I am tempted to ask her to come back again regardless. Be jntetesting to see if pain has manifested itself again.

 

[doris2008]

Hiya,

Could be a reaction to the expectation of pain. Even if he's no longer sore there may be a certain 'movement' that used to give him pain but doesn't anymore. But of course he doesn't know that it won't hurt anymore and so reacts. I guess kind of like how an abused horse will always flinch and quick movements.

I would suggest to be paitent, but quite firm. When he tenses you should relax everything, show him with your body that there's nothing to worry about, and he should soften and relax, and repeat repeat repeat.

Agree - I suspect there may be an element of this too!
I don't want to be hard on him if there is pain. But equally if he's totally taking the piddle!

 

[be positive]

Yes she did some massage work with him too. When she initially looked at that area the moment she pressed he hit the roof. By the end of the session he didn't react at all. She showed me how to check him over and see how he reacted and there is still nothing but I am tempted to ask her to come back again regardless. Be jntetesting to see if pain has manifested itself again.

If he was so bad he hit the roof then it is very unlikely that one treatment will have resolved the problem, they usually require two sessions sometimes three over a period of about a month to fully recover, I cannot get a reaction anywhere near as easily as my physio can they are trained how to do this and sometimes I am amazed at the reaction they get when even a vet has found nothing wrong after prodding and poking, I would get her back and see what she finds as I suspect there will still be an issue even if it has improved.

 

[doris2008]

You were right be positive! Lady came back earlier this week and massive reaction again behind shoulder area. Suspect residual from crappy saddle. She did a fair bit of work on him again and by the end of the session he wasn't reacting at all. Got some more exercises to do and review in s month. Other twitching put down to the op he had and healing process.
Rode him day after (bareback until saddle check) and much better. Fingers crossed were getting to the bottom of it now.

 

[be positive]

It is good that there was still a reason for his behaviour, it may take a while to fully resolve but at least you can move forward now, thanks for the update, I had hoped it would be fairly straightforward.