What is wrong with novices taking on an Iberian?

JFTD said:
You talking to me, Kat?

Your boy is seriously sexy - I can see why you just had to have him :D

QB, he's only a quarter anda actually, so between us we'd still be one lobe short of a brain (which is a great new euphemism for psychologically challenged, I think) :D
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But don't you see, thats great news because I have a degree in Psychology and I can come and study you for research :D:D:D Its meant to be :D:D:D
 
JFTD said:
Lol I'm afraid I've never been to Burghley, let alone on a course walk there :o sorry :(

Whereabouts in E/A are you? I need to know if he'd be in danger if I brought him down :eek:
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Ah, just had a rummage and it seems I have confused you with 'hairycob', think it was the coloured cob and trec references confusing me! My bad! Either way, I am in Cambs so within easy pony scrumping distance from most areas!
 
Gorgeous horses!!! I can relate to mine being a pest lol

Mine is half iberian (very sensitive boy), basically he will take the abso mick out of you if you havent got a clue about horses (novice rider a bit slow or giving aids that means something else). Even when leading, you have to be careful because he does spook at air and he loves to take on moving things such as rabbits (he got hold of dogs before and been seen chasing anything that moves if its small). He is PERFECT for me because I can read his mind and he reads mine :) He isnt push button but he is just fabulous for me and we just click. He going to be my piaffing machine one day bless him :)

This is my boy
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My friend has recently got an Andalusian colt and he's fantastic! Such a beautiful and well behaved lad. I hope I can meet him soon! She got him for free!!!

Dispite my name, I wouldn't take one on! Beautiful, a bit too beautiful!
 
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When i got mine i didnt even know what he was until i got the paper work no mane cuts covered in poo. Never wanted one my Friend had one he wasnt nice to other horses. So put me of the breed. Although mine is funny to handle i think a novice could ride him as long as they were quiet rider. Hes the most bombproof horse iv ever ridden I think the shock was how fast reactions they have. I have a very sharp TB but he would leave my TB standing
 
totally agrree with everything magicmelon has said, my part bred luso is absolutly fantastic wouldnt change him for the world, clever is an understement, although young hes been very patient with me and is so eager to please, hes a little clever clogs..... love him to bits :-)
 
I'm a massive Andalusian/Lusitano fan, and have quite a thorough understanding of the breed.

I suppose a lot of it could be said about any breed of horse; but if you were to buy an imported PRE from Spain or anywhere in the continent, trained to a decent level; then they are normally very sensitive. Riding several highly trained Andy's and Luso's myself, they teach you SO much about yourself as a rider and really show up your flaws. If I didn't have my skilled trainer, I would of probably have been killed. Simply because if my leg as so much slipped, then I was no longer trotting, but we were now passaging or doing Spanish walk into levade (I have an interesting video showing that particular incident somewhere, will link you up).

Without being prejudice against other breeds, (I have a WB and a coblet), I do think Andalusians and Lusitano's are definitely the most talented horses out there. In terms of skill, understanding and temperament. My trainer works especially with Iberians and has one client who were novices and bought a 6 year old Andalusian (bred here in the UK), backed and collected a few BD points. They were poor riders and not very skillful at handling and the Andy was very confused and very sensitive. She never took advantage of them whatsoever, but once both horse and rider were intensively worked with for 6 solid weeks, they became a fantastic pair.


In Portugal, you will see young 6 year olds piaffing on their Lusitano stallions. They are the most, from my experience, well-tempered, mannered and behaved stallions- horses, out there. They are very caring, very gentle but if you take advantage of this, the consequences (like with any horse), can be dangerous.


I think if you were to buy yourself an Andalusian, you need a thorough understanding of the breed. For me, the Iberian's are a totally different breed- they are out of this world and they need a special sort of treatment and understanding. If you were interested, read Peter Maddison Greenwell's ''Living and Working with the Horse of Spain''. It's a really good book because it talks about the breeds history, (both Andy and Lusitanos), feeding, importing your Spanish horse, shoeing, presentation, the art of Doma Vaquera (which many of them are trained in).

Talking about Doma Vaquera, this is the reason why many Spanish stallions and geldings are very sensitive and not ideal for the novice. If you youtube videos of Doma Vaquera and Working Equitation, you can see the skill, refinement and the subtle riding of the caballero. It's bred into these horses; to be quick, sharp and incredibly intelligent. When you earn a Spanish horses respect, it is truly an honour to do so. I am so passionate about this particular breed of horse, that I've spent the past 4 years learning Spanish and aim to live out there for several years, mastering the art of riding and handling Spanish and Portuguese horses. I would never buy myself an Iberian until I feel I am at a level of competency not only in owning horses, but competent in handling the breed themselves. Because I've seen sooo many horses ruined (particularly Iberians), by owners who have absolutely NO clue about the breed and treat them like normal horses and either ruin them or simply cause an explosion.
 
Buy a british bred spanish horse!!! There are quite a few high quality spanish breeders now... www.bapsh.co.uk

Reasons being they have been bred here, handled here and have not had the upset of travelling or change in disciplines.

I can't honestly think why anyone would import one in this day and age.
 
tallyho! said:
Buy a british bred spanish horse!!! There are quite a few high quality spanish breeders now... www.bapsh.co.uk

Reasons being they have been bred here, handled here and have not had the upset of travelling or change in disciplines.

I can't honestly think why anyone would import one in this day and age.
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I would import because I feel British Bred Andalusians and Lusitanos aren't quite the same as the ones you get from over in Spain and Portugal! I feel they lose their 'spark', don't ask why- it's just a feeling I have personally which I can't articulate!
 
lassiesuca said:
I would import because I feel British Bred Andalusians and Lusitanos aren't quite the same as the ones you get from over in Spain and Portugal! I feel they lose their 'spark', don't ask why- it's just a feeling I have personally which I can't articulate!
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Yes, many people are under this illusion.
 
lassiesuca said:
I would import because I feel British Bred Andalusians and Lusitanos aren't quite the same as the ones you get from over in Spain and Portugal! I feel they lose their 'spark', don't ask why- it's just a feeling I have personally which I can't articulate!
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On the GN thread you were still at school, lassiesuca - where have you developed this sudden wealth of experience to advise others on Iberians?

As a future reference for you, Andalusian refers only to horses born in Andalucia, a region in Spain, it has no significance regarding the registered Iberian breeds, unless they happened to be born there.
 
Well I bought a PRE colt a few months ago. He was born in spain and then imported I've with his dam. I'm really excited about him and though I have done loads of research, I've always wanted one and it was a bit of a snap decision...

He is doing well so far :)

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Changes said:
On the GN thread you were still at school, lassiesuca - where have you developed this sudden wealth of experience to advise others on Iberians?

As a future reference for you, Andalusian refers only to horses born in Andalucia, a region in Spain, it has no significance regarding the registered Iberian breeds, unless they happened to be born there.
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Can I not be well informed despite being at school :) ? I am in my final year of education, and have spent most of my life around horses. Why can I not advise others? It is my personal experience with horses which has shaped my view and it is a free country where I can advise if necessary. I'd argue that I'm probably more informed on some things than others of an older age than me.


Andalusian's originate from Spain; it is where they are bred. There are many differences in the Lusitano, Fresian, Lippizanner and Andalusian- there are differences between both Lusitano and Andalusian, although miniscule- not just the country that they are born in. Although the Carthusian is less common, whilst the Andalusian originates in Spain (predominantly Andalusia yes), just like any breed, they can be found anyway. It is far easier though to generalise and say Spain, because this is their country of origin. It's like saying New Forest ponies are from Hampshire, but we say England as their country of origin, as apposed to their region of origin :)


ETA- may I also add, Chances- if I were a 40 year old woman advising on the matter, would it make a difference? Have I said 'Don't buy an Andalusian', I've used my understanding (and yes MY EXPERIENCE) of Andalusians and Lusitanos to justify my opinion and have my say. I hate the fact that because I'm 17 years old, I am not entitled to my say and my experiences are invalid to you. I do have an understanding of Iberians, they are a breed I've had a keen interest since I was first introduced aged 13 years old. It's been a topic of particular interest which I've pursued and have chosen to further my knowledge, so that wqhen the time comes, I will be a competent enough owner.
 
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erm... actually the spanish horse should actually now be referred to as the PRE... the Carthusian is not a breed but it DOES come from Spain!!! Friesians, Lipps and Lusos aren't even Spanish!!!

According to ANCCE:
Or by its initials PRE horse. Other names such as Andalusian or Iberian horse do not represent this breed. These terms are generally used to describe crossbreds that lack the quality controls and purity, as well as the official documentation from the Spanish Stud Book.


Those known as Carthusian horses are a family (or bloodline) within the PRE breed.
 
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tallyho! said:
erm... actually the spanish horse should actually now be referred to as the PRE... the Carthusian is not a breed. Friesians and Lusos aren't even Spanish!!!

According to ANCCE:
Or by its initials PRE horse. Other names such as Andalusian or Iberian horse do not represent this breed. These terms are generally used to describe crossbreds that lack the quality controls and purity, as well as the official documentation from the Spanish Stud Book.


Those known as Carthusian horses are a family (or bloodline) within the PRE breed.
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I'm not referring to them as Spanish. But they come under the Baroque family of horses. The 4 main horses of the Renaissance period. Lippi's are from Austria, Luso's, obviously Portugal. In the 20th Century, Spain and Portugal's stud book split because of variations between the two (those I do not know really, I've found the explanations a bit ambiguous).

The Carthusian, whilst comes under the PRE has still been a recognised breed for many, many centuries, and were in fact the original horses of Spain before the Andalusian dominated due to the segregation of Spain (or something along those lines), and the Monks of Spain preserved the Carthusian horse, which I have always believed and been told, still exist now, even though they are in a minority. If I am wrong, then my apologies.
 
Look, I've only picked things up as I've gone along over the years but...

As far as I know, I don't think the carthusian was ever a breed in its own right - it was only to describe the place they were bred. The Order wanted it to be but there is little DNA evidence to suggest it is different to any other bloodline and the carthusian bred stallions and mares are used in many other bloodlines but this means nothing as they are one and the same horse! The only things that change is what mix breeders use to produced colours, height or perhaps type.

So, no matter what, only a spanish horse registered in the stud book, is a PRE. Which is why I ponder the logic of importing them when they already exist here!
 
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Tend to agree with almost all that has been said so far. The Iberian breeds are fabulous but they are often highly sensitive. It is easy to get a good tune out of them but not be riding them correctly, much harder when ridden correctly. Its like all horse and rider combinations, it is the combination. You can have a beautiful horse and a wonderful rider but it doesn't always make a good marriage.

A novice rider with an Iberian horse is likely to need more help than a more experienced rider. Also think progress for a novice combination is likely to be slower.
 
lassiesuca said:
Can I not be well informed despite being at school :) ? I am in my final year of education, and have spent most of my life around horses. Why can I not advise others? It is my personal experience with horses which has shaped my view and it is a free country where I can advise if necessary. I'd argue that I'm probably more informed on some things than others of an older age than me.


Andalusian's originate from Spain; it is where they are bred. There are many differences in the Lusitano, Fresian, Lippizanner and Andalusian- there are differences between both Lusitano and Andalusian, although miniscule- not just the country that they are born in. Although the Carthusian is less common, whilst the Andalusian originates in Spain (predominantly Andalusia yes), just like any breed, they can be found anyway. It is far easier though to generalise and say Spain, because this is their country of origin. It's like saying New Forest ponies are from Hampshire, but we say England as their country of origin, as apposed to their region of origin :)


ETA- may I also add, Chances- if I were a 40 year old woman advising on the matter, would it make a difference? Have I said 'Don't buy an Andalusian', I've used my understanding (and yes MY EXPERIENCE) of Andalusians and Lusitanos to justify my opinion and have my say. I hate the fact that because I'm 17 years old, I am not entitled to my say and my experiences are invalid to you. I do have an understanding of Iberians, they are a breed I've had a keen interest since I was first introduced aged 13 years old. It's been a topic of particular interest which I've pursued and have chosen to further my knowledge, so that wqhen the time comes, I will be a competent enough owner.
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Lusitanos are the Portuguese PRE split from the Spanish Studbook.
PRE are Spanish.
These two studbooks are what are classed as Iberian horses.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

You're entitled to your say, just be aware if you spout a load of bull as advice you will get pulled up on it. :rolleyes:
 
I've had my PRE since he was 4.5, imported from Seville, and he's now 7. It's been a rollercoaster - not anything to do with him really, but because too many trainers I brought in to help were frustrated that he wasn't a warmblood and therefore would not respond to the training they were trying to force.

They need much longer to mature physically and mentally in my experience, and then one day they just seem to be ready for it.

He is sharp, but I can honestly say he's never done one thing that has ever unseated me or frightened me. I do have to be one step ahead of him all of the time, he does get bored very quickly and easily and he is complicated to train (the MOST complicated horse my RI has ever worked with in 35 years she says!!!) BUT his work now is coming on beautifully (I've been to Portugal training with Lusos to further my own education), and I'm now teaching him to jump which he is loving.

He's big, he's sensitive, he's HIGHLY intelligent and he's never going to be a weekend - only ride. But I adore him and we're making a nice team.
 
Can I also say that Madison-Greenwell's book is not very useful, I'd say by going to Spain and visiting a few yards/riding a few horses you'll learn much more about the breed.
Also, the first horse can be a different thing to different people, I have ridden for 12 years and got my first horse last year and he's a PRE, and I'm enjoying every minute with him, but if you're getting a first horse for someone who's ridden for a month or is coming out of ponies it's all a different kettle of fish, no? Which makes this whole discussion a bit pointless :)
 
showqa said:
I've had my PRE since he was 4.5, imported from Seville, and he's now 7. It's been a rollercoaster - not anything to do with him really, but because too many trainers I brought in to help were frustrated that he wasn't a warmblood and therefore would not respond to the training they were trying to force.


Absolutely agree, Iberians really don't respond to being forced but then I don't think any horse really responds to it. Just glad to have a wonderful truly classical trainer.
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I have owner my PRE for 18 months now. I imported him from Spain unbroken as a 5 year old. He was a bit of a 'rescue' case (hence unbacked!). I have had a rollercoaster ride with him as well. Backing was a big issue (as he had trust issues - although not with me, with others!). So I ended up sending him to Warwick McLean to back!!!!!!!!!!! he is my first PRE (had WB and ISH previously).

He has EXCELLENT manners on the ground, would never put a foot wrong. Very eager to please, the most amazing nature, very sweet and trainable!!! I had him cantering 5 metre circles in his first long reining session! very smart boy indeed.

He has been backed about 8 months now, but was VERY sensitive and difficult to ride. Just hugely tense and like an explossive bomb! however, since then I got him checked by the vet and he had done his suspensory ligaments!!!!!!!!!! so has just had an operation and now on box rest bless him. So I am now thinking some of that tenseness was because of that issue (although I am sure not all).

Anyway, STUNNING breed. I adore my boy. He is very special and I can not wait to see him everyday :) :) I will never get any other breed.

Also, I am experienced but quite nervous due to a bad accident on my last SJ horse. So prob not the best match for my boy when on him! although he is so genuine :)

He is also AMAZING to hack but sharp in the school. Very odd haha!

I also would only import. You get far more for your money buying direct from Spain than you would here. Looking at what they cost in the UK makes me chuckle!!!!!!!!!!!! one add I saw today has a PRE 5 year old, just backed, not great breeding for £10k! haaa. People pay that though, as they are sought after. All I would say is be careful who you buy from in Spain (as they do ride them differently and you might end up having to re-train it anyway!!!).

Hope that helps! they are fabulous horses :)
 
Oh also, I totally agree with the other post about trainers. I have used a few instructors and had not great results with them due to the fact they try to treat him like a warmblood! soooooooooo frustrating indeed!!!!

Once he comes back into work, I am going to find someone who specialises in iberians! should have done this b4 grrr.
 
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