What is wrong with youngsters wearing tack or learning to 'lunge'?

Perissa

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I've been reading on another forum thier outrage of an advert stating that a 10 month old filly has worn a harness.

I am a firm believer in not backing horses before they are physically and often mentally ready for it however I can't really see what is wrong with the above. There is MASSIVE difference between wearing a harness and being broken to harness. When my boy was two he wore a saddle, just stood in the yard with me flapping the saddle flaps, later I added stirrups and let them bang his sides gently.

From a two year old he was introduced to a bit. Never lead from it but just to have in his mouth. Once in a while he wore loose side reins (not attached to bit) and I taught him to 'lunge' - as in walking in two or three circles and learning what whoa and stand means. I really do mean a circle or two in walk on each rein before talking him for a walk around the lanes.I also taught him to long line this way. He would not bat an eyelid if one of the reins would touch his hocks.

At three he was leant on and over when I was grooming him. I stood on a chair next to him and leaned over to brush his other side so he would get used to seeing someone above him.

At four he was sat on bareback and walked around the school for a couple of minutes (I didn't have a saddle to fit him then) but I see nothing wrong with sitting on a three or maybe even a two year old providing they are WELL GROWN and healthy. There is MASSIVE difference between sitting on for few moments in walk then riding around the arena in all paces for half an hour.

At four I would slide off his backside so he would not bat an eyelid if his bottom was accidently brushed by the leg when being mounted or dismounted.

I hear so much about what you shouldn't do with youngsters but there is nothing wrong with doing some of them IN MODERATION as part of the learning process - IMHO.

Cindy Sims backed my boy and she commented that he was one of the easiest horses she's ever done. He wasn't worried about anything. The first day she rode him around her indoor school solo in walk. The next day I stood inthe middle and pretended to lunge him, she gave him the aids to trot when I told him to trot and in 2 minutes he understood. The next day we did the same thing with canter. He learnt to walk , trot and canter undersaddle in 3 days.

Some people thought I was mad turning him out or bringing him in while holding an umbrella! Or leading him down the lane in one hand with the wheelie bin in the other. Got somefunny looks that one!

So please don't think that because you have a youngster you can't do things with them. Play about with them, use common sense!!
 
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Just re reading my post I think I have answered my own question - What is wrong with youngsters wearing tack or learning to lunge and that is...

Some people don't understand what IN MODERATION and using COMMON SENSE means!
 
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I dont think there is anything wrong with teaching younsters ground manners or wearing tack, or long reining when they get a bit older. Both mine did and have not had any ill effects.

They dont need to do much though, they should have time to be babies and grow up.

Lunging I dont agree with, it puts a lot of strain on their joints.
 
Interstingly I have just been reading the thread about racehorses been backed and raced at two.
I suppose what's good for the goose and all that. Will be interesting to see if the same posters reply to this thread !
 
I guess I just dont see a point to it. What does a baby need to wear harness for? They get 3 1/2 years or so of mooching around and mostly being left to it then they get the rest of their lives to be wearing tack and lungeing and other stuff. Ive never had a problem backing a horse becuase its been left alone apart from basic handling for 3 to 4 years, i guess if i did I shouldnt be the one backing them anyway.
As for lungeing, thats not something I see a youngster should be doing at all.

BUT I dont get outraged about what other people choose to do with their animals, (within reason) I just do what I personally find is acceptable with my own and mind my own business on the whole.
 
Lunging I dont agree with, it puts a lot of strain on their joints.

Don't you think there is lunging and then there is lunging? Using my point about moderation and common sense.

Technically I taught him to lunge at two, but did I really? Walking a circle or two...?

Totally agree if the lunging involves too much too young. For example I know a professional producer who lunges yearlings in trot to teach them to trot in the show ring.He doesn't care, he is paid to win a piece of ribbon......
 
Molly(mini Shetland) has worn all manner of scarves, ropes, sacks, coats etc. on her back since she was small (I'd guess 8-9 months ish) and it's unlikely she will ever be ridden. :D I do think making stuff just part of the day in an informal, totally non stress way is a great way to get younsters used to coping with all the odd stuff we will or are likely to do with them throughout their lives. For me putting stuff on with no intention of work but purely as a desensitization exercize is fine.
Teaching the basics such as leading, body and hoof handling should start early imo.
I don't see a problem with putting harness on in an incremental manner to get a youngster used to the feel of it but I don't think it should be done intensively and certainly not associated with work. The trouble is that stating this in a for sale ad might imply that the youngster is ready to start learning to drive. :(
 
Molly(mini Shetland)

I don't see a problem with putting harness on in an incremental manner to get a youngster used to the feel of it but I don't think it should be done intensively and certainly not associated with work.

The trouble is that stating this in a for sale ad might imply that the youngster is ready to start learning to drive. :(

Couldn't agree more with your first comment :)

And sadly have to agree with you second comment too, the stupidity of some people still astounds me at times.

I think my point was so many people say you shouldn't do this or that with your youngsters when there is actually a lot you can do with them, without causing any kind of harm or distress, and which might be benificial when it comes to situations in later life.
 
Perissa,
I completely agree with your post, doing these things in moderation provides good building blocks for the future, and helps to create a well mannered horse.
 
Its a shame everyone doesn't have the same attitude as the OP. By exposing your horse to as many things as is possible whilst it is very young seems like a very sensible thing to do if you ask me.
 
Sorry but totally disagree with this. Horses should be left out in 'herds' where they will learn far more of relevance (place in pack etc) than if brought in and put tack on etc. The vast majority of horsemen will attest to this. Trouble is there are so many muppets who buy one foal/youngster and pamper it to destruction just because they have nothing better to do. Result? Lots of bargy horses who don't respect bodyspace etc. These then appear on the market as said buyer 'can't handle a youngster' arrrrgh!
 
I bought my youngster in November, aged two and a half - she will be three in May. She has learned to lunge in walk and trot, for about five minutes, is starting to long rein, has had a roller on and walks out in hand. I think it will all lead to an easier backing....
 
I have Breeze an appy x cob who i got ive had since august, (was 15 months old then ) everyday for 3 weeks before i brought her home i tied her up, brushed her and picked out all of her feet. The day afetr i got her home you would think she had been here forever. I also got given a 2 year Ruby, she is as strong as an ox and had very few manners apart from for my friend vicky, ruby is now a saint to lead and I take ruby and Breeze in and out of the stable (brought them on 2 or 3 nights a week in december and january ) and they both walk down the lane together. Both have had a bridle on and ruby who is 3 this summer is ready to back, i havent the space to lunge her, but have had a lunge line attatched to her headcollar and have sat on and slid straight off of her a few times. I takes them over haylage wrappers and was walking Breeze out in hand 2 times a week before i got rubes (seperation issues atm) I bring them into the stable to brush them, try on rugs and generally play with them 1 or 2 times a week. I want them to be as safe as possible for scarey situations as they will both mainly be hackers / occasional hunters, umbrellas aren't scarey objects, giant bubble wands can be eaten (kids palying with bubble wands at gate of field) black bin bags make nice hats and children jumping on trampolines are good to watch. Tractors aren't an issue with Breeze who isn't even 2 yet and double decker buses are only scarey if we meet on a blind corner. So yeah i think the more you do with them the better, they need to have time out in the field being babies but make your life safer and easier when the time coems to ride out :)
 
Sorry but totally disagree with this. Horses should be left out in 'herds' where they will learn far more of relevance (place in pack etc) than if brought in and put tack on etc. The vast majority of horsemen will attest to this. Trouble is there are so many muppets who buy one foal/youngster and pamper it to destruction just because they have nothing better to do. Result? Lots of bargy horses who don't respect bodyspace etc. These then appear on the market as said buyer 'can't handle a youngster' arrrrgh!
Leaving a younster totally un touched is the other extreme from putting it in tack an working and mithering it. Erm, what is happening to it's hooves in a soft field with no trimming? :confused:
There is imo a sensible middle ground where babys learn the basics in a totally stress free way and live in a herd as well, surely!
 
My youngster put up with so much random crap :)

He had buckets balanced on his head like a hat :)

Hes a very chilled out young man lol
 
I have 2 horses.
One I had from a yearling, and although he was out in a herd environment during the day, I bought him in each night for a small feed, groom and a play. He went out for walks, we did a few in-hand shows, he wore tack etc.
The other I bought as a 4yr old, and from what I know of her background, she hadn't seen much of life.
The first one, by far, has the best attitude and approach to life, and can be handled by anyone. He's been a joy to own.
 
Sorry but totally disagree with this. Horses should be left out in 'herds' where they will learn far more of relevance (place in pack etc) than if brought in and put tack on etc. The vast majority of horsemen will attest to this. Trouble is there are so many muppets who buy one foal/youngster and pamper it to destruction just because they have nothing better to do. Result? Lots of bargy horses who don't respect bodyspace etc. These then appear on the market as said buyer 'can't handle a youngster' arrrrgh!

A youngster can do that for 23 hours of a day, for that other hour, that is when the human can work with them and expect concentration (more so for the older horse, but no reason why you can't work with a baby).
 
I do all of that with my two year old, hence when I d post photos, I stress that any photos of him being 'sat on' or 'lunging' or 'long reining', is literally for a grand total or 30 seconds and done once every couple of weeks, if that!


Agree completely and you get a much more well rounded easier horse in the long run. My lad would be bored stiff-less if he didn't do some games that kept him stimulated! He loves it :)
 
But your comparing a 10 month old FILLY to a two/two and half year old. Thats a different kettle of fish!

In reference to the advert the foal was being ''driving well''... Yes handle and do all sorts with youngsters but driving a 10 month old is extreme! On another advert on preloved the same horse was being refrenced as lightly backed... Please do argue that this moderate and the correct thing to do with a 10 month old horse!
 
Sorry but totally disagree with this. Horses should be left out in 'herds' where they will learn far more of relevance (place in pack etc) than if brought in and put tack on etc. The vast majority of horsemen will attest to this. Trouble is there are so many muppets who buy one foal/youngster and pamper it to destruction just because they have nothing better to do. Result? Lots of bargy horses who don't respect bodyspace etc. These then appear on the market as said buyer 'can't handle a youngster' arrrrgh!

I get annoyed by people who think that a horse shouldn't be touched until they are 3/4 and end up with a horse that can't be handled, lead, tie up, put tack on, scared of it's own shadow but at least knows the pecking order in the field!!
At 3 my baby was 16.3hh weighing over 550kg...I wouldn't fancy trying to take him out of a field for the first time never being handled, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have respected my body space!!!
It does no harm to handle young horses and teach them basic manners which will help them in later life...like to OP said common sense and moderation.
 
The advert you are referring to was for a 10 month old filly that was being driven.........that is wrong surely in anyones eyes. ???

I have had lots of youngsters who at the age of 3 had done nothing except for tying up,grooming , vet and farrier visits. And they all went on to be easy to break and school on, problem is some owners just dont know when to leave youngsters alone.
 
No I'm not arguing that that is acceptable and if you think I have then you have totally missed the point of my post.

(edited to add) Where did the post go this was a reply to?...

The Snoopster - I referred to the wearing of harness. I DO NOT refer to the filly being driven or ridden.
 
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No I'm not arguing that that is acceptable and if you think I have then you have totally missed the point of my post.

(edited to add) Where did the post go this was a reply to?...

The Snoopster - I referred to the wearing of harness. I DO NOT refer to the filly being driven or ridden.

But your orginal point was people were outraged at the filly wearing harness, i'm pointing out you missed the point. People were outraged that the filly had been driven and ridden... Different thing all together, nobody seems to disagree with handaling etc of young horses... but 10 months old and driving...?
 
Nothing, if as you say its in moderation and done with some common sense.

We are starting to do more with my sisters 3yo this year. He was bitted and shown in hand last year (2 shows) and this year will be introduced to long reining, lungeing and very basic ridden work.

In fact, we've started the prep for showing and I hacked off his long mane with scissors to get it to a more pullable length - he looks like he's had an accident with a lawnmower :eek: :D

IMAG0097-1.jpg
 
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All things being equal, I'd rather that a youngster had been properly handled than either A: OVERhandled = cheeky, bargy, no respect, annoyed with humans piddling about with it, or B: Stuffed out in a herd and left = wild, untouched, terrified. Ideally, I like to handle foals from about 1 week old for a couple of weeks so that they can be caught, put a headcollar on, tie, have feet picked up, lead, and that is all. Then they go out in the field except for routine worming, shots and farrier trims, or moving from field to yard, etc.
 
But your orginal point was people were outraged at the filly wearing harness, i'm pointing out you missed the point. People were outraged that the filly had been driven and ridden... Different thing all together, nobody seems to disagree with handaling etc of young horses... but 10 months old and driving...?

No I haven't missed the point, where have I condoned her treatment....I haven't. Why do you think I am not outraged too? You are making an argument (your word not mine) out of something that is not relavent to this thread.
 
I've been reading on another forum thier outrage of an advert stating that a 10 month old filly has worn a harness.

I am a firm believer in not backing horses before they are physically and often mentally ready for it however I can't really see what is wrong with the above. There is MASSIVE difference between wearing a harness and being broken to harness.
<snip>
So please don't think that because you have a youngster you can't do things with them. Play about with them, use common sense!!

I believe the outrage at the post was due to the following quote within it: "...has been broken to harness but very lightly. She is only ten months old, driving very well for her age..." Somewhat different to "worn a harness" and I'm not sure why it's been twisted as to what the 'outrage' was actually over :confused:

My rising 3 QH had a saddle parked on him today for the first time and has had a bridle on - a bit on stop at the moment as he needs some wolf teeth out or he'd spend a bit of time walking around in the tack... At some point he'll do some long reining and at some point he'll be backed - maybe this year if he's ready for it... No rush though, it's all fun and games and getting used to it at the moment...

11mth Sec D has been taken out and about in his head collar and is quite comfortable walking over some different surfaces and poles... He's been in more until he's gelded (tomorrow) though so doing some thing with him to 'play' has been important...

The original advert - which specifically mentions the 'broken' to harness at 10mths old...

http://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-32054.html
 
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