What level of work for these front legs?

Spyda

Spyda

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Fronts1.jpg

Shod.

Fronts2.jpg

Limb inclination when unshod.

This is an in-all-other-ways a super 5 year old horse. Outstanding conformation, fab temperament and willing trainable nature. BUT I am getting very depressed at the number of people who think I should be doing more with her. So far she's been backed at 4. Turned away for a year and at 5 is now being brought up to fitness. We're walking out for about 1 - 1.5 hrs 5 or 6 times a week, involving lots of hill work.

Anyway, just wanted opinions on keeping her sound but at the same time not wrapping her in cotton wool and just plodding around the block on her for the rest of her life. She was bred to event, and problems during her gestation resulted in the congenital front limb deformity which obviously discounts this ambitious prospect, but what I would like to know, what level of work is she capable of doing? I really hate hacking :(
 
All you can do is build her up slowly, take advice from your vet and play it by ear. You will never know if you dont try - Ginger had navicular when i brought her - she was a good servant for many many years - we did all sorts - i even jumped on occassion - but it was on occassion and on very good ground,
 
I guess a vet would be able to best advise as they can see her move and how it affects her but I'd aim for what you'd like to aim for and see how she copes? x
 
lcharles said:
I guess a vet would be able to best advise as they can see her move and how it affects her but I'd aim for what you'd like to aim for and see how she copes? x
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She's been under the vet since foal hood. Been remedially shod since a yearling. Vet doesn't have a clue. Says play it by ear, but it would be interesting to hear from others who've had experience of horses with bench knee conformation. I know what those horses did and how they coped (or didn't).
 
I wouldn't want to be putting her under any sort of hard work with those legs! Just imaging what strain it would put on her jumping/eventing. I would have thought low level stuff and hacking, but obviously I'm not a vet and this is just what I would do.
 
It's impossible to say how sad ,but build her up slowly and keep a close eye on her and see.
Is she yours Spyda ?
I think only her owners can really take this desision because there are options field ornament , PTS , if her nature is right for the job find her a job as a low impact hack , train her like a normal event bred baby and see what happens .
I seen horses with awful deviations hunt for several seasons but it usually catches up in the end is a shorter life having fun better than a longer one as a lawn mower ? I don't know.
I really don't envy you the choice it's very hard , if she where mine I would try to decide based on her nature and what she would enjoy most.
 
My mare has a front leg deformity in that her front left twists from the knee down (and I think her knees are on wonky too) admittedly we don't event but we do a lot of different activities including some xc and the like. I have no doubt should we up the level we do that she would cope fine
 
I remember this one....A 2008 baby? Born a similar time to mine I think....

Anyway, I think you are giving her the best chance, by doing a long slow fittening process. Then you have to make a choice - Gradually add in more work and see how she goes, or stay at this level and forever question her future.

Also, I think in the sport horse world we are getting very used to seeing excellent comformation more and more. The average horse or even the bottom end of the market don't have that - we are trying to compare to perfection.

Lots of horses (and humans!!) are out there doing the job with far from perfect conformation....
 
Thanks everyone. And don't apologise All About Romeo. :)

Yes, she's mine. Homebred and third generation I've bred. Always bred to acheive something I could not purchase 'already made' and this would have been an outstanding horse if she'd not had the front limbs she has. Breeding, eh! :rolleyes:

I guess because she is a very big, athletic, well put together horse (and from the side, it's easy to miss the front leg problem) people expect me to be 'doing somthing' with her. Like the equine vet who came out to vaccinate yesterday. Horse was tied in her stable, front legs problem not obvious. Vet was really taken with her. Asked how she was going and what level of competition we were working at. (Infact every vet who's ever attended her has been the same.)Then I point out the front legs and they're gutted on my behalf. Sheesh. Makes it worse!!! If only..... eh?! :D

My problem is, I bred her and will not sell her. But I cannot afford more than one horse, either financially or timewise so am limited to making the best of it with this one. Thankfully, as well as being very beautiful she is also very kind, generous and forgiving and I'd never want to harm her by pushing her beyond her limits. It's just so hard gauging how far might be too far. I guess hunting and showjumping are probably out! If only because she's the clumsiest thing known to man ATM! :D
 
CrazyMare said:
I remember this one....A 2008 baby? Born a similar time to mine I think....

Anyway, I think you are giving her the best chance, by doing a long slow fittening process. Then you have to make a choice - Gradually add in more work and see how she goes, or stay at this level and forever question her future.

Also, I think in the sport horse world we are getting very used to seeing excellent comformation more and more. The average horse or even the bottom end of the market don't have that - we are trying to compare to perfection.

Lots of horses (and humans!!) are out there doing the job with far from perfect conformation....
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Hi CrazyMare! Yep, you're correct :) This is my 2008 baby. Now all grown up (and still causing me worry!!! :rolleyes:)
 
We have a ten year old mare here with offset cannons. She has competed in show jumping up to discovery level without problems, and would probably go a lot further if the owner hadn't lost her jockey as she is by Orlando. She isn't QUITE as bad as your mare, but not far off. The owner bred a foal from her and I was worried she would pass on the defect, but the foal is very straight. He's a stunner.

Oh, and the owner has had her five years and she's never been even slightly lame.
 
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what are her paces like? does she dish ? my big girl has a wonky foreleg and dishes heavily on that side but it hasn't stopped her jumping or doing ODE's at low level with her old owner who was a big girl (hence needing big built 17hh horse :o ) If you build her up slowly i'm sure you can do more than hacking. She just may have a shorter working career than a horse with perfect confo.
 
Take a wander round Newmarket or Middleham as see some of the conformation of some racehorses that do really quite well!

I would say play it by ear, see how it goes. The horse will tell you what it can and can't do when you ask of it.
 
I suppose the only way to find out is to work her and see what happens. Some horse with perfect legs go lame; some with horrendous limb conformation stay sound. I think the most likely things to go wrong would be splints, and maybe some ligament problems, but you'll just have to increase the work incrementally and keep a watchful eye. Shame, but that's breeding, eh? Oh, and I wouldn't breed her either, even "just in case" she doesn't pass on the defect. Good luck.
 
There was atop racehorse called Attraction, who won the one thousand guineas and other big races. She was supposed to be crooked in front, so much so that they couldn't sell her and ended up racing her, and look how that turned out. I think she was in training until four, and raced at the highest level where there is much more stress. You don't know until you try. I think shoeing will play a big part in this.
 
My godfather had a very successful horse he bought very cheap due to a knee like that. He bought him initially for hacking about (godfather was a successful show jumper before a very bad accident) but the competitive bug bit started jumping him and the horse which turned out to be fairly talented did a lot and was never bothered by the knee.

Unfortunately the sole photo I have of the horse is side on and as you say you don't see it side on.

I think as others have said you will have to try it and see.
 
Ginger was deformed - okay it was her hind, it came in on quite an angle, and when she walked and the hoof was on the floor it would turn about 1/8th - she was between 23 and 27 when she died.

She had hunted for 4 full seasons, spent several years at the top of local showjumping, and did pony club for as many years. I did dressage - although she did not really enjoy this, she much preffered flat out accross a ploughed field, i did fun rides a bit of jumping and she was only unsound really in her latter few years.

Like i say - you will never ever know - but just take it slowly slowly, and be carful of deep ground
 
Just thought wasn't there a 4* eventer with wonky front legs, and he was managed sympathetically and never had an issue
 
Why dont you take him to a specialist vet - not being rude to yours - but one that knows the inside out of horses legs and has seen endless problems with competative horses -maybe they will give you some guidelines and put you in touch with someone that can come out and do physio.

Whats that vet up cheshire way.... Campbell something or other? - let me have a dig around
 
I'm sorry but how anybody can say light work or pts or pasture ornament is beyond me. You don't know the mare and can't see how you can judge by a photo.
Carry on doing what your doing and building up slowly, she will tell you what she can/can't do. Iv rode horses with horrid front legs in the past and all jumped and hunted without a problem. Take things as they come.

As for others, well that's big livery yards for you I'm afraid. People will always have their say but she's your horse so you do what's best. Sounds like your doing great so far. If I had listened to everybody when my lad was lame full stop when I said I was trying barefoot he would of been pts by now but I stuck to my guns and pushed it all aside and I'm the one with a horse back in light work with no more lameness. Do what you feel is right and good luck :)
 
Personally I would just start doing a bit more, you don't know till you try, as long as you monitor it carefully and manage rest between work well then that's all you can do, horses and people can't live on a 'what if' IMHO :)
 
I've been thinking about your mare. :)

Due to this -
My problem is, I bred her and will not sell her. But I cannot afford more than one horse, either financially or timewise so am limited to making the best of it with this one.
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I suggest that you start to school her so that she's ready to do a low level Dressage test. I think that it would be wise to not do constant circles (no lunging, horsewalker or schooling for a long time on a circle) as this has been proven to cause joint damage. She is coping in straight lines, so this would be a good next stage to try with her.

If she copes with schooling and the turns that it involves then you could decide whether or not you want to continue with Dressage or whether you want to try jumping her. Again, I would start slowly and not do tight turns with her.
 
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